Know Thy Enemy

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Know Thy Enemy

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

HSUS or PETA: Which Anti-Hunting Extremist Organization is Worse?
https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2016/7/25/hsus-or-peta-which-anti-hunting-extremist-organization-is-worse/

Quote:
HSUS CEO Wayne Pacelle said, “We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States… We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped in California. Then we will take it state by state.” And it has. HSUS works to pass laws restricting both hunting means and the ammunition that can be used. The goal? Make it harder—and more expensive—to hunt. While Pacelle made these comments on Dec. 30, 1991, as executive director of the anti-hunting group Fund for Animals (FFA), they show how long the anti-hunting campaign has worked to exterminate all hunting. (In 2004, FFA merged with HSUS under the HSUS umbrella and, Pacelle’s leadership, went on to merge with several more “animal welfare” groups to expand its reach.)

The Bottom Line: HSUS = PETA
https://humanewatch.org/the_bottom_line_hsus_peta/

2nd Quote:
Your local humane society is about animal welfare—ensuring animals are treated well. The Humane Society of the United States is different than (and unaffiliated with) local humane societies. It’s about ending most uses of animals under the premise that use equals abuse. 
When you do a little digging, you discover that PETA’s practically a revolving door for HSUS employees, a radical training ground before these activists don a more respectable brand.

There’s a whole web of animal rights groups with essentially the same agenda: to eliminate the use of animals for food, research, clothing, and entertainment. Many HSUS leaders come from these groups—PETA-esque in worldview, but without the same budget or notoriety as PETA. Wayne Pacelle, Michael Markarian, and several HSUS board members hail from the Fund for Animals, an anti-hunting group, for one example.

Here’s HSUS and PETA in their own words. On the major goals, we can’t see any difference:

PETA Says…

"Animals Are Not Ours to Eat"

"Animals Are Not Ours to Wear"

"Animals Are Not Ours to Experiment On"

"Animals Are Not Ours to Use for Entertainment"

HSUS Says…

“We don't want any of these animals to be raised and killed.”

“HSUS is committed to ending…killing for fur.”

“HSUS advocates an end to the use of animals in research…”

HSUS “opposes the use of wild animals in circuses”

The Anti-Hunting Machine: Exposing the Humane Society of the United States
The Humane Society of the United States' mission is to end hunting everywhere, and they've never been closer to realizing this goal than they are today. Can hunters shut down their scheme?
https://www.outdoorlife.com/articles/hunting/2014/10/anti-hunting-machine-exposing-humane-society-united-states/

3rd Quote:
HSUS has a long list of victories against sportsmen and wildlife conservation in its ongoing battle to destroy hunting.

Today, HSUS continues to lead a multi-pronged attack against America’s hunters. The antis are deploying their political contacts and financial assets to strike at both state and federal levels. Current campaigns seek to overturn wolf hunting in Michigan; ban lead ammunition on public lands; and outlaw bear baiting, trapping, and hunting with hounds in Maine. If successful, these unwarranted restrictions will cripple wildlife management and hunting as we know it.

It’s no easy feat to disable such a well-funded, well-connected, and well-oiled political machine. But that doesn’t mean it can’t be done.

Discuss.
 
10 Organizations That Want To Stop You From Hunting
https://dailycaller.com/2015/04/30/10-organizations-that-want-to-stop-you-from-hunting/

Quote:
How you can fight back 

“While hunters are preparing for hunting, someone else is preparing to stop them from hunting, and we have to work diligently to protect our hunting traditions,” said Nick Pinizzotto, President and CEO of U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance (USSA). A 501(c) 4 organization, the USSA provides direct lobbying and grassroots coalition support for the purposes of protecting and advancing the rights of hunters, trappers, anglers and scientific wildlife management professionals. It bills itself as the “only organization exclusively devoted to combating the attacks made on America’s sportsman traditions by anti-hunting and animal rights extremists.”

“We have someone poring over legislation daily regarding hunting, fishing and trapping. Also, we encourage hunters to sign up for our free newsletter that will alert them to legislative changes affecting hunting,” added Pinizzotto.

Knowledge is key to combating attacks on hunting heritage. Here are a few ways you can keep yourself informed and also, help join the battle to save hunting.
 
Well, should a person of that persuasion come to home I would definitely serve them 'vegan food' with a bacon grease base.

I see. You would try 'breaking bread' w/ them? That might not work out so well.

Quote:

HSUS's senior management includes a former spokesman for the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), a criminal group designated as "terrorists" by the Alphabet org. HSUS president Wayne Pacelle hired John "J.P." Goodwin in 1997, the same year Goodwin described himself as "spokesperson for the ALF" while he fielded media calls in the wake of an ALF arson attack at a California veal processing plant. In 1997, when asked by reporters for a reaction to an ALF arson fire at a farmer's feed co-op in Utah (which nearly killed a family sleeping on the premises), Goodwin replied, "We're ecstatic." That same year, Goodwin was arrested at a UC Davis protest celebrating the 10-year anniversary of an ALF arson at the university that caused $5 million in damage. And in 1998, Goodwin described himself publicly as a "former member of ALF."

https://scienceblogs.com/grrlscientist/2010/03/02/the-greed-of-the-humane-societ
 
JohnnyPDX

That's not what I said, Johnny.

Quote:

"You would try 'breaking bread' w/ them?" Not that you would have or already have.

But, since you don't associate w/ people like that, then its a non issue.

As far as the issue being 'politics' and/or 'futile and meaningless' ,,, have you ever considered the possibility of that attitude being the end result of subversion?

sub·ver·sion
/səbˈvərZH(ə)n/
noun

1.the undermining of the power and authority of an established system or institution:

Subversion - definition of subversion by The Free Dictionary
www.thefreedictionary.com › subversion
1. subversion - destroying someone's (or some group's) honesty or loyalty; undermining moral integrity; "corruption of a minor"; "the big city's subversion of rural innocence". corruption. degradation, debasement - changing to a lower state (a less respected state) 

---

No, of course you haven't. Few people even realize they're being subverted on a daily basis. And, when they come to face the possibility, this is what usually kicks in...

Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive dissonance is a term for the state of discomfort felt when two or more modes of thought contradict each other. The clashing cognitions may include ideas, beliefs, or the knowledge that one has behaved in a certain way.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/cognitive-dissonance

Denial usually being the first symptom of cognitive dissonance. Everyone ... you, me... everyone hates to admit they have been fooled, tricked, convinced of something that is inherently incorrect, etc.

Consider: 

At present your attitude in regard to this issue is that it is 'futile and meaningless' ... ask yourself how you got there?

Nightly News? Internet news? Social media? Yours and my way of thinking came from somewhere. From one or more sources.


 
You know what. All of us are weirdos freaks and certainly extremists in the eyes of some. You may be surprised what your friends actually consider you. Hopefully we are not criminals ( in the eyes of the law).
Everyone has a cause that’s their “thing” I’m not one bit worried about the anti hunters and vegetarians. Hunting’s going to die species by species mostly due to loss of habitat. Meat and groceries in general are becoming more expensive yearly. We all may be changing diets and eating habits. My guess is we’ll be seeing lots of chicken coups in back yards and other innovations.
What the anti hunters don’t seem to understand is that animal populations have to be controlled and managed. When the deer eat their scrubs down to the ground they often change their tunes. As for hunters when you have to pay thousands of dollars to hunt and then hope you can get a tag that changes out tunes as well 

Times are changing. Like it or not 
 
bubblerboy64 

I agree. A point I was going to try to make w/ JohnnyPDX is the same thought you just mentioned ... "Hopefully we are not criminals ( in the eyes of the law)" ... unfortunately, we are to their way of thinking ... not being willing to go along w/ the agenda makes us 'domestic extremists'. Colorful label, eh? That is their effort to try and demonize us in the eyes of everyone in America. Which is of course, a form of subversion.

This line here? "As for hunters when you have to pay thousands of dollars to hunt" ... is because of the influence and pressure that has been brought to bear against state legislatures by HSUS / PETA and others, (its in the links I posted above).

I live in Texas. To hunt most species of game we have to use .30 PCP's. Other states are even worse. They have to use .35 or .40 PCP's. That is HSUS trying to force the little guy (aka the common man) out of being able to hunt. Their mission is to exterminate all forms of hunting. And, they are winning.


 
I am perfectly happy and content with futile and meaningless.

Are you charging by the minute?

I could tell you, but then I'd have to bill you.

Cognitive Dissonance kicking in, eh Johnny? Cognitive dissonance refers to a situation involving conflicting attitudes, beliefs or behaviors. This produces a feeling of mental discomfort leading to an alteration in one of the attitudes, beliefs or behaviors to reduce the discomfort and restore balance

Cognitive dissonance isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it can prompt you to make positive changes when you realize your beliefs and actions are at odds. It can be problematic if it leads you to justify or rationalize behaviors that could be negative.

The goal of resolving cognitive dissonance should you ever be interested can be achieved by either accepting this opposing information and integrate it into our existing beliefs, changing our beliefs, or reducing the importance of the beliefs in our lives.
 
I appreciate your honestly about billing.

Because of this thread, and my responding to it, I am now concerned about my apathy towards understanding the term 'cognitive dissonance'. It seems like a simple enough thing to understand but my Scooby Sense tells me it's a four-year study and I am pretty sure this will interfere with my current air rifle and fishing schedule.


 
JohnnyPDX

It was a joke, Johnny. Y'know? Like that gif you tried to post?

Like the ... um, ...(ahem) ... 'humor' you're doing now? 

Ok, I get it. You don't care. If I was a betting man, I'd wager you didn't even try to click the links I posted in the OP and other posts. Obviously, there is nothing I can say that will or would change your mind. You're happy w/ futile & meaningless'.

Btw? A synonym for 'subvert' is 'undermine'.

Your effort(s) from your very first post on this thread & thereafter have been an attempt to undermine it. 

I won't ask you why; or what your motivation is or was in doing so. Maybe you think its just funny or 'cool' to do so. Maybe you just want to argue.

One can lead a horse to water; but, you can't make it drink. One can lead a man to knowledge; but, you can't make him think.
 
JohnnyPDX

Relax?

Animal Rights Activists: Who They Are & What Do They Do

Quote:

An animal rights activist looks out for animals at every opportunity. Most proactively organize events to help educate the public, protest against the inhumane treatment of animals, or celebrate animals in general.

You’ll find many animal rights activists lobbying state and federal governments for better laws to protect animals. These passionate people also spend time spreading the word about animal cruelty online, whether by writing blogs, posting on social media, creating YouTube videos, or chatting with others on forums.

https://sentientmedia.org/animal-rights-activists 

The above link is practically a 'how to' manual on subversion. I posted it to demonstrate how they're getting around these days. They're ...'posting on social media' or 'chatting with others on forums'. Like AGN, for example. How innocent, right?

Consider: 

I'm sure you have seen posts in the threads at the Hunting forum of folks posting their 'opinions'.

I've been seeing posts about how large hogs are 'inedible', how killing for 'sport' is bad, how killing for food is bad, how you tube vids on hunting are bad for a variety of reasons. How so and so would NEVER take a shot that is _____ (fill in the blank). And then. there are the would be 'thought police'. And/or, the Karen's. 

I could go out on a limb and suggest the people making these posts are members of one or more activist, anti-hunting groups ... but, I won't.

I will however suggest that each in turn has been subverted, and having been subverted they're attempting to subvert others. However consciously or unconsciously ... either way, they're a tool for the enemy.

I don't expect you to agree. See how relaxed I am?

I take that back, actually I'm not very relaxed at all. One of my female, all black cats (who is in heat) wants attention, and knows she can get it by walking on the keyboard of my laptop and just deleted over half of this post. I had to type it over again and lost my train of thought. ARRRGGHHH !!!

ATM, she's at the top of my closet shredding paperwork up there.

Do you have cats, Johnny?

There is no such thing as negative attention to a cat. Attention is attention. Positive attention is great; but, if I'm too busy to give one or the other the attention they crave, then they will resort to other methods. Fortunately, the older female, all black cat is more settled in her maturity. The younger one is a hellion.
 
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