Kral Information Thread. “Contribute what you know “

Good morning all, I have a Kral puncher mega marine and I cant figure out the orentation of some of the trigger components. Apparently there were a couple different versions of the trigger group in this rifle. I'm guessing this is an older version as newer versions of things tend to have less parts. This rifle has 5 trigger components and 6 cross pins. With the bore pointing to the right and the rifle on its left side, looking left to right there is:
1. The trigger (it has a spring)
2. A bolt stop (it has a sping)
3. A small piece with a tail that point left and right
4. A piece that tooks like it interfaces with the bolt stop (it has a spring and an adjustment screw)
5. A piece with 2 cross pin holes with a tail that faces left with a hole in it to access the scre in piece 4

If someone has an axploded view or a picture or a napkin sketch I'd really appreciate it. I have to say this will be my last Kral rifle EVER. I have emailed both Turkey and the US contacts numerous times and have had no reply. SO... This is it for them.

MEGA MARINE ASSY .PNG
 
I have equipped my Karl Bighorn with a Pitbull power spring, 500 cc 4500 psi cf tank to give me the option of higher psi fills. So far the valve does open efficiently at 4300 psi with 88 fpe using the MPMoods .252 hp @ 44.5, and this with a 18 inch barrel. Limiting factor seems to be the barrel outer o’rings, they need to be undamaged, no nicks from removing the barrel for cleaning and reinstalling. Most likely I will eventually use a fill between 4000 and 4200 psi. The Bighorn has Troy Hammers’valve and the hammer converted by Troy for the Bulldog spring. The valve return spring has also been removed.

Next mod will be a 700mm TJ 25 auto barrel, a process which I initiated yesterday. I am hoping to break 100 fpe with this last mod.

Regards,

Roachcreek
 
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I have used a 3625 psi on a Kratos for two years, and I am experimenting with a 4000 psi fill on my Bighorn.

On the Kratos I have zero problems and did it with Troys blessing. I got the Kratos shooting Kings at 1050 fps.

The Bighorn, a 25 that I shoot the MPMolds .252 44 grain hp, I am using a Pitbull power spring and the hammer Troy modded for the Bulldog spring. I have gotten to a 3900 psi fill and still open the valve and still have the Karl cliff string.

I am using a Talontunes 3625 psi cf bottle, if 4000 psi works out, I will purchase a 4500 psi bottle for safety sakes, either a 580 or a 700.

Regards,

Roachcreek
dont want to be with you when a bottle explodes
 
Louis,

I will be sure to send you a pm when I shoot it again so you can cover in place.

However, I am curious as to how that 4500 psi rated fill pressure bottle on my Bighorn is going to explode at 4000-4300 psi? I suspect the barrel orings would fail any higher, the burst disk is rated at 4500 psi.

The Kratos had a 3625 psi Talontunes bottle at the time. It has a 3K bottle now and is doing 50fpe with kings these days.

RC
 
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Louis,

It is not a very practical endeavor for most shooters. I am close to being maxed out by orings and a burst disc.

The goal is 100 fpe, most of that will be obtained by a 10 inch longer barrel, but I do want to see how 4000-4200 psi and that extra 10 inches affects the velocity. I suspect that 3800 psi will get me to 100fpe and leave room for 1-2 magazines.

On a different note welcome to AGN.

Regards,

Roachcreek(
 
Very cool work with that folding stock. Did it take custom work to fit?
Hi kuroshio
Thank you
I took original stock tube out and fitted a custom 3d printed part back in,, then that attached to a folding stock adapter
Then on to ares folding stock.
Its been that long since I did it now
The ares stock still retracts like original for length of pull" but folds up neat and tidy
That there is some nice shooting bud by the way.
I hardly shoot my kral now after all the work I done on it." I just cant gel with it
I like the look if the empire xs but then I glimpsed at the artemis m16 groups"she ain't a pretty looking thing," but put that in a tactical stock and your on it.
I had a artemis pr900w and it was a lazer beam .
I like my little air arms s200 it just feels like part of me when I shoot it if you know what I mean.
And it shoots my slugs which is a bonus

20230416_163055.jpg


20230412_154632.jpg


20230412_154724.jpg
 
There doesn’t seem to be a wealth of knowledge on the Krals. Bits and pieces everywhere. So I was thinking maybe a single thread of the most common question and quirks of the krals.

In my short quest

Fill prob o ring. -11/32 x7/32x 1/16

Marauder Baffles work with the Puncher breaker silent

Bottom pic rail Allen screw to long to stabilize rail. Need to grind or shorten
That is a sweet looking Empire XS.

I've been thinking about doing the porting as well but I am not quite sure how to go about it. I've got a drill press but I'd rather not experiment with the methods and ruin anything. Haha.
I got my first pcp recently (NP500) and didn,t fire a single shot, i already fully dissambled it. What i noticed is that you can open the transfer port, BUT my question is does it help much?

I think you also need to dril a bigger hole in the Reciever to get maximal result. i am not sure that this is possible without damaging the thread in the hole where you screw in the bolts for securing the barrel. Or you have to make that bigger too, with a bigger bolt and new thread. Another option is to make the channel in the reciever bigger and place a helicol to use the same bolt for the barrel.
@Troy Hammer (what,s your experience or thoughts about these things)

Another thing i noticed that all the O-rings had some damage when placed in a situation where an intersection is with drilled holes.
((for example the two holes for the barrel mounting bolts), (valve block O rings under fillingprobe hole and manometer hole, up airport to the barrel))
Most likely because these holes are not or not enough deburred in the factory.

When you open up airport in the barrel by drilling you will create a little bur on the inside where you absolute don,t want burs (damaging the pellets?slugs).
So at the moment doing some investigation for a good way (tools) to do the deburring perfect ,to prevent damaging the new O rings by the first use.

Out of the box i noticed the cocking system felt a kind off grindy, i thought this can be better (saw the raw surface from the outside on the thick part from the needle.

Cleanded, polished and lubed al the parts cocking and hammer system, result i have to be carefull not to hurt fingers because the cocking lever jumps back when i open it :).

Also cleaned,polished and lubed all the contact points from the trigger systym, result very smooth trigger system, also because i removed some big burs from the hammer (location contact point hammer and trigger plate).

Have seen that there is a lot play in the cocking mechanism and the pins (poor quality material) so i think i put some time in this to make some custom pins and other parts (hammer ) on a lathe

During my investigation about the valve tuning i found something thats probably interesting for a lot Kral owners :).
But this is the first investigation, i have to do more.
This is what i found: https://www.gallagherseals.com/blog/tag/poppet-seal
I think this wil make tuning the valve easier and i think quality is better than the original ones from plastic ( with burs).
also opened the valve port.
by disassembling i noticed that the valve was hard to move in the valve block, bij cleaning and lubricating it a bit it moved much easier and smoother.


Thanks to Troy, sharing his knowledge on youtube video where he shows how to disassemble a Kral puncher breaker
.

I saw that it isn,t that complicated as you think and this gave me the trust to disassemble my brand new first PCP airgun :)

A big question for me is about the slingshot spring system, whith length widht and strenght are the springs?.
Thinking about the hammerspring i have the thought to make it a two stage spring .( a low power smaller diameter in front from the hammer , for half in a small pockethole covered with a springseat on the backside and after that the main hammerspring)

It,s interesting how everything works and i like it to improve things and doing the investigation to accomplish that.

I hope that this will help for others to improve the performance
 
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I have no problem with my Empire XS. For an inexpensive gun, I'm very happy with it. I put a few magazines through it yesterday.

Yes, it is a little mechanically noisy, so are most bullpups. Your ear is within an 1" or so of the receiver (where all metal to metal pounding action takes place).
So what ?

Mike
Its not only the noise, the hammer bouncing can also open the valve tiny,tiny bits, (Not sure it is,but technical its possible) loosing bits of air.
 
I got my first pcp recently (NP500) and didn,t fire a single shot, i already fully dissambled it. What i noticed is that you can open the transfer port, BUT my question is does it help much?

I think you also need to dril a bigger hole in the Reciever to get maximal result. i am not sure that this is possible without damaging the thread in the hole where you screw in the bolts for securing the barrel. Or you have to make that bigger too, with a bigger bolt and new thread. Another option is to make the channel in the reciever bigger and place a helicol to use the same bolt for the barrel.
@Troy Hammer (what,s your experience or thoughts about these things)

Another thing i noticed that all the O-rings had some damage when placed in a situation where an intersection is with drilled holes.
((for example the two holes for the barrel mounting bolts), (valve block O rings under fillingprobe hole and manometer hole, up airport to the barrel))
Most likely because these holes are not or not enough deburred in the factory.

When you open up airport in the barrel by drilling you will create a little bur on the inside where you absolute don,t want burs (damaging the pellets?slugs).
So at the moment doing some investigation for a good way (tools) to do the deburring perfect ,to prevent damaging the new O rings by the first use.

Out of the box i noticed the cocking system felt a kind off grindy, i thought this can be better (saw the raw surface from the outside on the thick part from the needle.

Cleanded, polished and lubed al the parts cocking and hammer system, result i have to be carefull not to hurt fingers because the cocking lever jumps back when i open it :).

Also cleaned,polished and lubed all the contact points from the trigger systym, result very smooth trigger system, also because i removed some big burs from the hammer (location contact point hammer and trigger plate).

Have seen that there is a lot play in the cocking mechanism and the pins (poor quality material) so i think i put some time in this to make some custom pins and other parts (hammer ) on a lathe

During my investigation about the valve tuning i found something thats probably interesting for a lot Kral owners :).
But this is the first investigation, i have to do more.
This is what i found: https://www.gallagherseals.com/blog/tag/poppet-seal
I think this wil make tuning the valve easier and i think quality is better than the original ones from plastic ( with burs).
also opened the valve port.
by disassembling i noticed that the valve was hard to move in the valve block, bij cleaning and lubricating it a bit it moved much easier and smoother.


Thanks to Troy, sharing his knowledge on youtube video where he shows how to disassemble a Kral puncher breaker
.

I saw that it isn,t that complicated as you think and this gave me the trust to disassemble my brand new first PCP airgun :)

A big question for me is about the slingshot spring system, whith length widht and strenght are the springs?.
Thinking about the hammerspring i have the thought to make it a two stage spring .( a low power smaller diameter in front from the hammer , for half in a small pockethole covered with a springseat on the backside and after that the main hammerspring)

It,s interesting how everything works and i like it to improve things and doing the investigation to accomplish that.

I hope that this will help for others to improve the performance
Seems hard to find poppet stem valves, look more easy to make it by yourself than find one
 
After switching to a 12.5 lb/ft spring and polishing the bore, my Kral Puncher changed its ammo preference. It now likes JSB 18.13.

Hammer spring adjuster is set for a small amount of free flight. I have not yet chronied the 18.13s but it did 28-29 fpe with other pellets.

Kral Puncher .22 27 shots @ 25 meters. There are two 9s in there but the rest are Xs and 10s. The first 3 shots are with JSB Express.

View attachment 325992
where do you get the spring you are using? great results!!
 
I have equipped my Karl Bighorn with a Pitbull power spring, 500 cc 4500 psi cf tank to give me the option of higher psi fills. So far the valve does open efficiently at 4300 psi with 88 fpe using the MPMoods .252 hp @ 44.5, and this with a 18 inch barrel. Limiting factor seems to be the barrel outer o’rings, they need to be undamaged, no nicks from removing the barrel for cleaning and reinstalling. Most likely I will eventually use a fill between 4000 and 4200 psi. The Bighorn has Troy Hammers’valve and the hammer converted by Troy for the Bulldog spring. The valve return spring has also been removed.

Next mod will be a 700mm TJ 25 auto barrel, a process which I initiated yesterday. I am hoping to break 100 fpe with this last mod.

Regards,

Roachcreek
would the Pitbull spring work on an NP03? which spring did you use? 457? 357?