Laser Sights — Cool in the Movies — How about for Airgunning?

[bigHUN]

View attachment 299534

Attila,

Did you have to use high scope mounts to fit it? Do you have a link for this laser? Thanks.

Matthias

My scopes are naturally mounted higher then the average users .
I am swapping scopes on my L2 and this one for example is about 76.6mm center height. As you can see the scope bell is large, there is maybe 6-7mm between the bell and the rail and that is enough for laser.
The problem I am getting only when I want to use the over the barrel bipod, the laser shoots the beam into the upper mount. But handheld no problem.
I guaranty the beam projects to 50 meters in a sunny day, and the battery rechargable with a magnetic contact no need to take it off. I mounted the laser aprox 5-6 months ago and charge it two times since.

 

[rangur1]

Target animals associate it with danger very quickly. I found red dots far better as they are only visible to you.

 

[bigHUN]

Green laser you can see. I see mine out at 50 meters on open range, what usable at that distance ? that is a different story.

 

[delooper]

I use laser pointers for short range pesting, some of the time. It was my "starter scope". Laser pointers are dead cheap. When I couldn't afford IR gear, thermal scopes, or high-end adjustable scopes, laser pointers got the job done.

My preference is the laser pointer where you can adjust the thickness (perhaps I should say "solid angle") of the beam. They're really pleasant to zero.

 

[MRaccurate]

Randy,

that's a good way of explaining it.

(a) Makes sense — seen from the hunting as sporting perspective, the David Crockett perspective, "fair game," all that. Because — it's too easy.

(b) Which brings me to the other perspective, the perspective of what's the most efficient way to kill pests. No sporting needed, just liberation of the farmer.
If lasers are "too easy" for sporting — then it seems that for efficient killing in non-sporting scenarios (pesting) we would use lasers more often? But it seems we don't.... (Or am I missing something here? Probably.)

Matthias

In Wisconsin, a law was passed before laser were invented that said that any projected light beam (Flashlights) could not be used for hunting at night. That was to reduce poaching. 1 exception was for shooting raccoons when treed. I think that law applies to regulated game animals, not varmints. I need to investigate more on this. Can flashlights be used during the day for hunting? Animals have no "Sporting Perspective". It is all just living and dying to them. If what sight could be used was based on how good it worked, we would all be back to throwing rocks. All sights improve your ability to target. There are some reasons that lasers are not used for targeting. I have designed and tested various prototypes that have solved these issues. I am working on getting them produced and on the market. I just stumbled onto your post today. Good conversation.

 

[MRaccurate]

Here in Ohio, laser are illegal for hunting.
I have one on my fishing bow and is pretty neat as it eliminates the image shift from diffraction. The laser diffracts the same as your eyes. In fog, the green laser is incredible.

I just seen your post, so I hope you are still checking responses. I do not bow fish and have very little knowledge about it and want to learn. How far out from the boat do you aim when shooting? Do you have any arrow skip, if you aim too far? How deep can you shoot with good results? I have developed a new laser sight and I knew about the diffraction issue. My sight works much better at close range. The answers will help me a lot. Thanks for the help. In Ohio, is the law about lasers for regulated game animals only?

 

[rcs9250]

I just seen your post, so I hope you are still checking responses. I do not bow fish and have very little knowledge about it and want to learn. How far out from the boat do you aim when shooting? Do you have any arrow skip, if you aim too far? How deep can you shoot with good results? I have developed a new laser sight and I knew about the diffraction issue. My sight works much better at close range. The answers will help me a lot. Thanks for the help. In Ohio, is the law about lasers for regulated game animals only?

I just shoot from shore or wading, no boat. Water clarity is the real determining factor for how deep. Here in Ohio creeks and rivers can vary greatly depending on river conditions that change from rain run off etc.
But typically 2 feet so far when clarity is good. And maybe 10 feet out. I’m still a novice.
A good way to practice is get some swimming pool noodles that kids use and cut into carp size lengths and weight them on both ends to keep them horizontal with a string tied to a sinker or something. You could put a weight in side it to sink it but it could damage the arrow point if it strikes it. Fishing arrows ain’t cheap. If you’re practicing in shallow water you can possibly get by without the retrieving string attached to save time and trouble of dealing with string.
At standing angles, I have not experienced skip. If you use a fishing real style retrieval system, DON’T FORGET TO PUSH THE CASTING BUTTON !!!
There are tons of YT videos of course. Good luck.

 

[JungleShooter]

In Wisconsin, a law was passed before laser were invented that said that any projected light beam (Flashlights) could not be used for hunting at night. That was to reduce poaching. 1 exception was for shooting raccoons when treed. I think that law applies to regulated game animals, not varmints. I need to investigate more on this. Can flashlights be used during the day for hunting? Animals have no "Sporting Perspective". It is all just living and dying to them. If what sight could be used was based on how good it worked, we would all be back to throwing rocks. All sights improve your ability to target. There are some reasons that lasers are not used for targeting. I have designed and tested various prototypes that have solved these issues. I am working on getting them produced and on the market. I just stumbled onto your post today. Good conversation.

Bradley,

if you don't mind, explain a bit more about the laser's problems and — if this does not mess with you bringing them to the market — what solutions there are.


Please, do keep us informed of your progress with this project if not on the chat, at least by personal message.
I'm very interested!

Matthias

 

[MRaccurate]

Bradley,

if you don't mind, explain a bit more about the laser's problems and — if this does not mess with you bringing them to the market — what solutions there are.


Please, do keep us informed of your progress with this project if not on the chat, at least by personal message.
I'm very interested!

Matthias

I don't believe I have enough posts to direct message anyone yet. The laser problems I refer to cannot be corrected with a convention theory approach. No conventional sight is accurate at the end of the barrel. My sight is accurate at 0 yards and is a speed-based sight. In an airgun platform, I can shoot flies from 1 yard to beyond 10 yards. Rimfire platform, I have shot well out to 100Yards. Some of the good shooters on this site have hit around the concepts that I have patented. I have been working on this project for over 5 Years. I have a divisional patent that is also in process. I have learned a lot from these good shooters here and have already used some of their good tips. I'm not trying to market anything yet, but I do want to talk with companies that can take this idea to market on a scale I believe it can achieve. When an idea can do what I know this idea can do (and I have some of this on video as support data), I know it has high market value. It is impressive to watch very young kids shoot extremely accurate at close range. Until I stumbled onto this site, it was difficult to locate and talk with like-minded shooters. I know many of my comments will be questioned and that is good. I have many more ideas for this sport and prototypes already made, but I want to see how members react to some of what I have said. Tell me more about yourself.

 

[moodyblues]

Wow, that's surprising, or... confusing. (To me, remember, I'm pretty ignorant about lasers, that's why I'm asking.)

I don’t ask you to defend Ohio's legislation, but would you be able to help me understand somehow what it is about a laser that requires such severe response by the law makers?
(Not trying to pick a fight, just trying to understand lasers for hunting, that's my OP about.)

Matthias

Matthias

I think here in the states a lot of laws are made because of the optics of the situation. Outdoorsman are usually not making the laws, there’s not enough of us and we’d rather be in the woods than around a bunch of suit wearing politicians. You’ve got people that live in the major cities and think god knows what about a laser sight on a gun. Most likely they watched some navy seal flick and that’s where they got their idea that lasers are not sporting. Same as running deer with dogs, bear hunting or baiting game animals, however the city people feel about the subject is how the law will go a lot of the time and they usually don’t have a clue.

IMO lasers were never meant to be a tool for precision or hunting per say, they were meant for close quarters combat. Fast and accurate enough! I think short range pesting classifies as CQB!!! Lol

Beau

PS it’s refraction not diffraction

 

[MRaccurate]

If I’m not mistaken, it’s because it is not as “sporting”. Think about it, you have a weapon with a laser on it, laying in your lap or on some kind of rest and you never have to raise it to your eye, all you have to do is turn laser on and move the dot to the target. Very easy. With my fishing compound it takes a lot of the human sight alignment out of it but you still have to hold the bow at full draw and steady but where the laser dot is, is where the arrow goes. I guess they allow it on forage fish because they’re junk fish.

 

[rcs9250]

PS it’s refraction not diffraction

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

[MRaccurate]

If I’m not mistaken, it’s because it is not as “sporting”. Think about it, you have a weapon with a laser on it, laying in your lap or on some kind of rest and you never have to raise it to your eye, all you have to do is turn laser on and move the dot to the target. Very easy. With my fishing compound it takes a lot of the human sight alignment out of it but you still have to hold the bow at full draw and steady but where the laser dot is, is where the arrow goes. I guess they allow it on forage fish because they’re junk fish.

I thought the idea of sights were to make it easier to aim at your target and execute a good shot. If you want more challenge to your sport, you could always remove the sights and shoot instinctively. I am a good shot with a bow instinctively, but I am a better shot with my laser sight. I enjoy teaching kids how to shoot, but they enjoy shooting better when they are good with very little training. If they don't believe they are good, they may not continue with the sport. I try to get them good quickly and then they can decide what challenges they want to take on after they know they have a skill. Using my laser sights on my pistols have helped me develop muscle memory for better instinct skills (out to 10 yards so far). A doubting friend of mine said that shooting my sight was like cheating. I thanked him for the compliment and said that is what a good sight is supposed to do for you. Sights are just a tool. Shut the lasers off and spend more time and money trying to improve your skills shooting instinctively. I still split some wood by hand, but it is easier to use a log splitter. Just some thoughts to ponder. I enjoy reading all the various opinions.

 

[JungleShooter]

Matthias

I think here in the states a lot of laws are made because of the optics of the situation. Outdoorsman are usually not making the laws, there’s not enough of us and we’d rather be in the woods than around a bunch of suit wearing politicians. You’ve got people that live in the major cities and think god knows what about a laser sight on a gun. Most likely they watched some navy seal flick and that’s where they got their idea that lasers are not sporting. Same as running deer with dogs, bear hunting or baiting game animals, however the city people feel about the subject is how the law will go a lot of the time and they usually don’t have a clue.

IMO lasers were never meant to be a tool for precision or hunting per say, they were meant for close quarters combat. Fast and accurate enough! I think short range pesting classifies as CQB!!! Lol

Beau

PS it’s refraction not diffraction

Beau,

I love they way you described the way laws are being made in the Western world.... Especially hunting laws....

Sounds terrible.

And it probably is.



Yeah, CQB is a good application:
• Pesting rats at close range in a dump.
• Pesting pigeons in barns and on buildings.
• Pesting squirrels in your backyard how are ready to devastate your attic.


I better go shooting something — this bureaucracy-garbage gives me the

Matthias

 

[MRaccurate]

Beau,

I love they way you described the way laws are being made in the Western world.... Especially hunting laws....

Sounds terrible.

And it probably is.



Yeah, CQB is a good application:
• Pesting rats at close range in a dump.
• Pesting pigeons in barns and on buildings.
• Pesting squirrels in your backyard how are ready to devastate your attic.


I better go shooting something — this bureaucracy-garbage gives me the

Matthias

What is CQB? I wish we still had old style dumps to go shooting at.

 

[JungleShooter]

A doubting friend of mine said that shooting my laser sight was like cheating.
I thanked him for the compliment and said that is what a good sight is supposed to do for you. Sights are just a tool.

Besides the bureaucratic conflict of city slickers tyring to regulate outdoors people — your analysis sums up pretty well the other conflict...!


It's a philosophical conflict of trying to keep gun shooting hard and difficult.
Sometimes I find that sentiment when talking to springer shooters. They want the challenge of having to hold their spring gun just so in order to score a hit. They don't want the ease of a virtually recoilless PCP gun.
➔ That's great for them — as long as we don't look down on each others' gun choices — and as long as we don't prohibit each others' gun choices.

Some of that sentiment of "making gun shooting hard" is fine...
▪ when designing shooting competitions.
▪ But c'mon, when I'm killing pests, I want the most efficient, effective killing tool.
▪ And when I'm tyring to fill my freezer, efficient and effective seems desirably, too.
▪ We already have bag limits — so why should anybody have the right to make shooting quarry hard for me, as long as I don't kill more than the legal limit?



Well, just my 2c.

Matthias

 

[JungleShooter]

What is CQB? I wish we still had old style dumps to go shooting at.

CQB = close quarter battle
CQC = close quarter combat

 

[c-mo]

What's a durable laser that won't break the bank?

 

[MRaccurate]

I tried a green laser at 10 meters. It works fine. You won't see the beam, but you will see the dot.

However, think of the laser as a cone. The farther out you go the larger the dot. On my 10/22 that was fine for punching 3 inch plates at 35 yards. Precision wise a scope does better.

I like the cone comparison concept. I have shot at 100 yards with my sight and the laser cone is larger than 6" on a single beam laser. I have entered my data into the Shooters Trajectory Calculator and the chart displays that the bullet will be less than 1/2" above the bore axis with an 83 yard second zero and be less than 1/2" below the bore axis out to 100 yards. I need the 2650FTS muzzle velocity PB speed to get these results using my sight. I find that the lasers are capable of shooting very accurate for me. I'll be using this data to challenge manufacturers concepts of laser sights at this year's Shot Show. I want to thank everyone for all their good opinions that have helped along the way.

 

[delooper]

I view the laser sights as serving two functions.

1) Provided you're at a range where they're essentially "zeroed", you can shoot from the hip, i.e. you don't have to have your head aligned with anything to take the shot. Can be helpful to get a rapid shot off at night while pesting.

2) If you have a traditional sight on the gun, the laser sight gives you a 2nd opinion. In particular the distance between your traditional sight (scope, red dot, etc) and the laser pointer gives you a distance estimate on your target. If you have the laser mounted on the opposite side of the barrel from your scope or red dot, it gives you very reliable hold over/under data.