Latest AP16 accuracy results

[AirNGasman]

I recently lost an Ebay auction for what I figure was the best hunting scope for my much-beloved Ataman AP16; however, more recently found a new pistol scope that matched the specs, including the critical (for me) eye-relief. The 2.5-8X Crimson Trace pistol scope arrived today.

Of course I wasted no time confirming the quality... and eye-relief. It seemed to meet my requisites quite well, but required a bit higher scope mounts to clear the cylinder/magazine. After plugging the new scope height into the trajectory calculator, 25 yards seemed the best zero range for my purposes. So I set about zeroing the new combination with serious sand-bagged accuracy testing, for the first time at less than 50 yards with my AP16.

Don't know how closely I approached the guns abilities, but the results are gratifying enough for my (hunting) purposes. Three consecutive five-shot groups at 25 yards with 15.9 grain FX branded JSBs at 665 FPS/16 foot pounds-

(All 15 shots would have gone into .50" center-to-center)

 

[OldSpook]

Exceptional!

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Very nice! How are you liking the scope so far?

 

[AirNGasman]

I like the CT scope a lot so far, LG. Comparing it to the discontinued (same magnification) 2.5-8X Weaver pistol scope I lost the Ebay auction for-

The CT scope has at least as bright, clear sight picture as the Weaver, but the multi-aim-point/bullet-drop-compensating reticle is something I've wished for in a pistol scope for a long time. That said, the BDC reticle of the CT is far from what I'd prefer in such a reticle (see link below). Nevertheless it beats the duplex reticle of the Weaver. The CT crosshairs are also a bit finer than the Weaver's.

https://www.crimsontrace.com/products/riflescopes/brushline-pro/brushline-pro-2.5-8x28-bdc-pistol/01-01600.html#start=1

The CT scope is somewhat heavier than the (lightweight) Weaver. That's great for rested shots, but (in my opinion) not as great for offhand.

I prefer the looks and slimmer profile of the Weaver; it having a smaller-diameter rear bell and shorter turret-caps virtue of not having finger turrets like the CT. However finger turrets are more convenient, and the CT turrets are easily zero-resettable. Though the Weaver has a zero-setting feature, it is difficult and Mickey Mouse.

The quick-adjust rear-focus on the CT is convenient and positive enough to not turn inadvertently. The locking (ring) rear focus on the Weaver is less convenient to adjust, but more confidence inspiring once set.

The beauty of this differences between the CT and Weaver is those differences align quite nicely with the applications of each pistol I have each mounted on. I consider my AP16 to have small-game capabilities to 50 yards, assuming certain hunting-types rests (like a bipod or tripod). However with my 26 yard zero, point of impact at 50 yards with the AP16 is 4.6" low; in other words, NINE MOA. Hence the need for a multiple-aim-point reticle.

Conversely, a 100 yard zero with the Weaver scope on my .357 Maximum Contender pistol requires no hold over (or under) at any range I'm comfortable taking a shot on the kinds of game I use that pistol for (deer, hogs, coyote). And unlike the AP16 that gets a LOT of target shooting and plinking, once the .357 Max Contender is sighted in I don't monkey around with scope adjustments at all (turret adjustments, or rear-bell focus). 

All this bears mentioning the fact that variable-magnification pistol scopes are probably the most difficult to design and manufacture within the compromises required by (conflicting) optical elements. For instance, not only do very few variable-magnification pistol scopes have short enough (long) eye relief for my Weaver offhand shooting stance, but the eye relief changes as magnification is adjusted; in many cases a LOT. Very few variable-mag pistol scopes work for me at all; the Weaver and CT being two of the best I've found. 

Even so, sharp reticle focus is an issue. Especially on air pistols used from near point-blank range to as much as 50 yards. Thankfully the reticle-focus issue is minimized by using higher magnifications at longer ranges, and vice-versa. That's a happy circumstance in another regard as well, as my offhand shots are shorter than rested shots, and lower magnifications don't MAGNIFY offhand wobbles as much as higher magnifications. 

Sorry for the long-ass post. But (believe it or not) I tried to cover pertinent points as succinctly as possible. 

View attachment 357 Max at 100.1622315598.pdf

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

Huh, that's all very informative. And a comparison that likely didn't leave anything lacking! I figured the CT would be a bit heavy. But as stated, may aide the accuracy of that, some-what light-weight pistol on rest.  I'll be honest, though. BDC reticles irk me, lol. But can definitely be more useful than weaver. Overall it looks like it's of pretty nice quality, and the price aint all too bad either.

I don't have much experience with pistol scopes, but I have been real impressed with my vintage Burris 1.25-4x. However, I honestly don't have anything similar to compare it to. I do intend to grow my pistol collection, and have been interested in getting a higher magnification EER scope.

I do have a contender as well in .30-30 + .45-70, both 14" barrels. I keep coming back to the idea of a .357/.38 spl barrel for it. I still have not mastered that gun or even come close. But it's rare I get to shoot powder these days.

Does the contender scope rail only have one mount point on the barrel? If so, my .45-70 would take care of that REAL quick, lol.

 

[Hawkeye51]

How is the weight & balance of the AP-16 with the Crimson Trace? Are you still able to shoot it off hand? The results you posted were very impressive I must admit, and a good looking "set up" esthetically. Congrats! 

 

[AirNGasman]

I bought the Contender barrel used LGD, and it has only 4 mounting screws for the scope rail. Since those screws shot loose once already, I'm hoping horsing them down with blue Loctite solves that problem.

For its length, I consider the weight and balance of the scoped AP16 very good, Hawk. More specifically, a good balance between heavy enough for good rested shooting, but light enough for offhand hunting shots. And the balance is neither too front-heavy, nor too far back.

Shooting a long eye-relief scoped pistol well is not easy, and downright wishful thinking with too heavy or poorly balanced rig. Finding the best magnification for shooting any particular scope-pistol rig helps, but it's still quite a challenging proposition. All that said, I can do good offhand work with the scoped AP16 for somewhere between a few to several shots before my concentration starts failing me.

One thing I have found is unless I'm out of breath I am steadier on offhand hunting shots than offhand competition shots. I think that has to do with intense, tunnel-vision concentration when shooting at game, versus a mind full of all kinds of other s**t in competition. To paraphrase... 

"Half of competition success is all mental!" 

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

 

I actually mounted custom iron sights to my 45-70 barrel for this reason. Or rather that is wants to tear/bend/deform any screws/holes. I imagine the 357 isn't as bad. Or hope not at any rate. Photo looked like you only used one mounting spot for the scope.... Which is why I asked. It looked like the rail was missing a mount. 

I'm with you on balance. It'll make or break a setup. I kind of figured a heftier scope would round out that gun... And glad it did. 

I use a huge moderator on one of my hunting pistols to take up the impulse of the super heavy hammer spring. My other one is just flat out heavy. Over 4lbs, lol. More rear heavy than anything, so a lightweight sight just doesn't cut it. The large burris scope mounted forward makes it easily 10x more effictive than using a red dot just for the balance alone. Switching the dense ebony grips to hollow plastic has a similar effect as using a lighter sight.... Not good. Having a very nice trigger goes a long way as well... But will never make up for poor balance 



I agree hunting is easier as well since you only have to focus on that one shot, and getting it right. Just seems to come naturally. Paper is a bit different. 

 

[Pale_Rider]

Helluva shooting session Gasman. And thanks for the review on the CT scope, had no idea it existed.