Lead and its impact on raptors

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JimNM said:
This thread reads like a enviro-activist troll. The OP starts of with a statement, then refers to his own work as support, then asks if there is a correlation to airguns.

The tone and organization of the statements does not appear to be from a genuine member of the airgun community. I urge caution in responding to troll efforts from the "Anti" groups.
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I am not anti. I like shooting my gun. Se sell 20 elk hunts a year on our place.and have for 30 years. I have been hunting since i was a little kid. You talk tough on social media. I wonder how tough you are face to face. Caring about this doesn't make me a troll. You have your head buried in the sand.
 
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L.Leon said:
That ban was legit as sending hundreds even thousands of lead pellets into the air, ducks and habitat per hunter, per hunt was catastrophic to the ducks. So who is this ignorance that “pisses you off” comment directed at? I’ve never hunted or intended to hunt ducks, but respect all animal habitats and act accordingly. The OP was about squirrels and the Cali Condors…
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My point was if you read my post that what was surprising to me that a rifle slug fragmented that much. I didn't know that and that makes the difference. Probably it relates to velocity so maybe it doesn't happen with airguns and so if passing through it makes sense the problem wouldn't be the same. That's a big plus for airguns.
 
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Dougth said:
I am not anti. I like shooting my gun. Se sell 20 elk hunts a year on our place.and have for 30 years. I have been hunting since i was a little kid. You talk tough on social media. I wonder how tough you are face to face. Caring about this doesn't make me a troll. You have your head buried in the sand.
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DO NOT start the tough guy routine here please.
 
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JimNM said:
This thread reads like a enviro-activist troll. The OP starts of with a statement, then refers to his own work as support, then asks if there is a correlation to airguns.

The tone and organization of the statements does not appear to be from a genuine member of the airgun community. I urge caution in responding to troll efforts from the "Anti" groups.
Click to expand...
I am a relatively new member. I shot an airgun as a kid in the 70s. I had Benjamins and a couple of Sheridan Blue Streaks that were I think in those days the best airguns around. I hunted a lot. I actually had raptors myself and fed them hundreds of birds and rodents I shot with my airguns. And i never once worried about lead. I like shooting and I still hunt a little. So let's try to talk about this rather than going after me. The lead issue is going to eventually affect airgunners too. So i think its worth talking about. It would be great if companies were finding better non lead alternatives.
 
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Boostcreep said:
I've been feeding my dumerils boa squirrels and rabbits I've shot with lead pellets for a decade and he's got nothing but bigger and bigger. All pass thru shots. I know birds/raptors aren't exactly reptiles, but birds are basically modern dinosaurs so there is that.

He has never exhibited any signs of lead poisoning. If the pellet doesn't shatter on impact and leave chunks inside the prey, I don't see how it would be enough to harm an animal. I know birds are more sensitive to lead than most other animals. Thats because they actually pick up the lead pellets/shot and store them in their crops/gizzard like they do rocks to help grind up their food. So it just sits in there and leeches into their blood until they either regurgitate it or digest it.
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Yeah as I just posted I grew up hunting for raptors that I rehabilitated jn the 1970s. I shot hundreds of starlings and other birds and Squirrels and fed them to my raptors. Honestly never entered my mind. That's my point too. I think probably lead doesnt shed off these slower moving projectiles in the same way. But I don't know and one of the reasons I brought it up.
 
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Septicdeath said:
I duck, pheasant and upland bird hunt. The lead shot ban was a good thing. The birds were ingesting large amounts of lead.

Not near as many airgun enthusiasts ever hunt with there guns. Not nearly the problem of shotgun hunting.

Let's ban plastic bottles instead. They are much more of a problem to the environment.
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Well it seems like finding better solutions to both would be good. I am not saying ban lead pellets/airgun ammo . I am saying wouldn't it be nice if there were some good useable alternatives? Are there? Because it seems like there are some pretty.good powder burning alternative projectiles.
 
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L.Leon said:
Hope? We do live in such a world, at least here in the USA… Hunting/hunters and conservation go hand in hand. We understand it’s because of hunters of the past and present that many wildlife game species are around at all. Hunting licenses, laws, seasons, bag limits, etc., are in place all across our great country.
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Totally agree.
 
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lbc_PSI said:
You bring up a very logical point. Please stop. 😉

Seriously..why do we never hear of lead affecting other carrion eating birds and mammals? Just CA Condors. I’m sure it’s because all the others are just so intelligent they eat around the lead. Uh huh..right.
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It's a good point but certain larger species seem to be rhe most at risk. There are tons of studies out there. It's also affected large vultures in Europe Asia Africa.
 
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JimNM said:
This thread reads like a enviro-activist troll. The OP starts of with a statement, then refers to his own work as support, then asks if there is a correlation to airguns.

The tone and organization of the statements does not appear to be from a genuine member of the airgun community. I urge caution in responding to troll efforts from the "Anti" groups.
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Yeah you are wrong. I genuinely am looking for information and would like to have a civil discussion. My questions are whether anyone knows if lead sheds off slower air projectiles in the way it sheds off higher velocity projectiles. Because it is the shed of lead that is the big issue. My other question is whether there are any decent non lead projectiles out there.
 
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L.Leon said:
That ban was legit as sending hundreds even thousands of lead pellets into the air, ducks and habitat per hunter, per hunt was catastrophic to the ducks. So who is this ignorance that “pisses you off” comment directed at? I’ve never hunted or intended to hunt ducks, but respect all animal habitats and act accordingly. The OP was about squirrels and the Cali Condors…
Click to expand...
 
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As I said in the article I was shocked at how lead spreads in a carcass The shotgun lead ban made sense to me too. but what was the likelihood of a scavenger picking up a big chunk of lead from a deer or elk. I assumed it was small. But its the shedding of lead from the projectile.. That is what was the surprise and what makes the difference
 
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madeintheuk said:
I shoot low power in my back yard, and seldom get pass through, so I can see where he’s coming from. My wife also works at a nature preserve that has hawks, and owls that have been injured and cannot re enter the eco system. I offered to give up the squirrels and chipmunks I shoot as free food for these raptors. I tuned my guns up for pass through, and their lab tested the rodents for lead trace. There was still enough lead inside the carcass even with a pass through to be considered poisonous to the birds.
whatever his motivations are, he still makes a good point.
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Thank you. I guess I should have known I would start a war. Actually didn't mean to. There are some smart people on this forum. Was looking to share with them what I had learned in writing that article and trying to learn more about airgun projectiles .
 
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