Lead free pest control.
- Thread starter bubbapearson
- Start date
Whoa -- don't know what happened there. Anyway, the PM feature isn't something with which I'm familiar, but I should have thought of it and tried to figure it out; obviously that would have been the best way to go. I'm an idiot for allowing myself to be so baited, but apologize to you and all the other board members for repeatedly including the whole world in what should have been a private discussion. Again, thanks for the suggestion: past time to brush up on some of the other capabilities of the software.
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Funny how one can visit an Air Gun forum and get lectured by know it alls that seem to be able to scratch out the true meaning of any post.
I don't care if you want to go lead free. I don't care if the Forum Know it all people have the 'Proper' answers.
I don't even care about the lead, or lack there of, of claimed poison below my feet.
I'm all for you doing what is good for you.
I'd really enjoy watching the Know it all type person say that crap face to face.
I'd bet they'd not or end up in a fist fight right quick where I live.
I don't care if you want to go lead free. I don't care if the Forum Know it all people have the 'Proper' answers.
I don't even care about the lead, or lack there of, of claimed poison below my feet.
I'm all for you doing what is good for you.
I'd really enjoy watching the Know it all type person say that crap face to face.
I'd bet they'd not or end up in a fist fight right quick where I live.
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You're not an idiot. It's easy to let a well-meaning discussion morph into something else. I remember when email communication was getting started in the corporate world (yeah, I'm old). I received some great advice one day, when someone said, "if you can't resolve the issue in two emails, then it's time to pick up the phone and talk". I learned the hard way that once you press the button, there's no calling it back.
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Wow! So after all that pontificating and typing the OP is sticking with lead for pests… And is now claiming he was “baited”… 
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Excepting those times I find incredibly low prices at Amazon or elsewhere online (which also means taking fairly significant chances with the all-but-ubiquitous poor packaging that can mean damaged, inaccurate pellets), I prefer to buy in quantity, in multiples of four tins, of course (the most ever having been 24 tins, IIRC), from the exceptionally nice folks at the Pyramyd Air website. Great place to buy airguns and equipment too, and I've almost always received some of the best customer service available anywhere while doin' business with them. If you're not familiar with the 'site (not too probable I'd guess, but possible), they offer a great deal on pellets (all types and sizes) when you buy in multiples of four tins -- purchase four tins and one is free. Unless you can order enough to qualify for free shipping, it can mean the total price per pellet is still about the same as that from other sellers, so that's another good reason (or excuse <grin>) to order as many pellets as you can afford along with the next good scope, metal trap, airgun or whatever you were gonna buy anyway. With free shipping, buying pellets in groups of four tins can mean incredibly low prices, and who doesn't like saving money? Their packaging of pellets also is about the best in the business, in my experience, and you'll probably never receive pellets damaged in transit from them, yet even on the small chance you do, their excellent customer service is there to make things right. As I mentioned, it's a very good place for airgun hobbyists shopping online, if you haven't tried 'em out yet.
For any that might be interested, about the best performing, cheapest 'unleaded' pellets I've found so far are the Match Green pellets from H&N. Like pretty much everything made by H&N, it's a higher quality product: more than accurate enough for day-to-day use and about the heaviest of all the leadfree pellets I've tried. They're quite good (maybe even suitable for close-up pesting) overall, although being wadcutters (and with the extra weight), they leave a larger display on and around the bulls eyes of the adhesive Shoot-N-C reactive targets I use than something more aerodynamic, and I like shooting in groups of three to five pellets, which for me can be a problem. The larger amount of background material knocked off by impact, even with nearly hole-in-hole accuracy, can result in the red, orange or whatever of the BE totally disappearing with the second or third shot, even in .177 caliber (pointy pellets leave the smallest holes/displays of all, which at first can be nearly invisible at only thirty feet, but I'm not a big fan of the pointy ones), totally eliminating the initial point of aim on two inch targets with three-quarter inch bulls eyes. Not a big deal really, but it's something I generally prefer to avoid, leading me to choose something else for my day-to-day use (appearing soon). Next up in price are the H&N Field Target Trophy Green pellets, which possibly are the lightest lead-frees available, but I've had some problems with accuracy and don't really like the type. Next up, providing excellent overall performance and accuracy -- at a 'reasonable' price -- are the H&N Baracuda (that's the spelling H&N uses) Green pellets, which is the general-purpose pellet I'll be using most often, if I don't find something with a similar or better price/performance ratio. I like them enough that after a couple of tins worth of trial test-driving, I bought a whole mess with the last airgun purchase we made (the VERY nice, usefully powerful (small game and pest capable), walnut-stocked, metal breech equipped Crosman 2023 hundredth anniversary version of their venerable and inexpensive C362 variable pumper) back in early September of '23, and still have more than ten thousand left).
I still have somewhere around five other pellet types from various manufacturers, but they're either so super expensive or poor performers I'll skip over 'em, but worthy of mention in both .177 and .22 caliber are the GTO Domed Head Pellets from Predator International Incorporated. They are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive (last tins I bought were nearing thirty bucks for two hundred in .22 caliber), but man-oh-man, do they ever give great performance! That's the case both in .177 and .22 caliber, and I think Predator also sells a .25 caliber pellet, but that'll need verification.
IMO, also worthy of note in .22 caliber, are the "Red Flight Lead-Free .22-Caliber Ultra Heavy Pointed Pellets (100-Count)," from Crosman. Like most lead free pellets, they're very expensive (ten cents plus per pellet, or ten bucks and change per tin of 100). Still, these quite lengthy (some airguns won't be able to accommodate them), 16.7 grain, combo plastic sheathing and pointy metal business end pellets are very accurate, very fast (seemingly at any rate -- without chronograph verification) and provide some absolutely incredible penetration into my homegrown, cardboard-sheet-filled pellet trap; more than ANY other pellet I've tried, including the many different lead pellets I still have in quantity! Even with only a three to five pump power up, when shot from my Seneca Dragonfly Mk2 and/or Crosman C2023 pumpers, I discovered, when removing and replacing the cardboard sheets making up the 'stuffing' in my trap, that these pellets travel a good deal further than other pellets, very close to (although not quite) all the way through all of the 25 to 30 cardboard sheets making up the trap stuffing. I was about shocked by this initially, but that extra weight, coupled with the pointy business end, means they have get up and go down to the wire when pushed out of my .22 airguns. I'm not sure that would be a good thing for hunting/pesting -- they might provide only quick, straight-thru, in-and-out types of wounds on small-game sized critters and pests, which might be a problem if one-shot kills are your goal, but
I haven't had the need to try 'em on an animal and just don't know. They certainly have the FPS for the job, but I'm just not sure about that energy actually causing the sort of damage required to take larger small-game-sized critters down with only one shot. Anyone else out there have any experience with this one way or the other?
One other thing I feel I ought to mention, since a few folks warned me that lead-free pellets can be prone to richochet... You're right: THEY SURE CAN BE!
It doesn't happen really often, but it does happen now and then, enough that I think something like hole-in-hole follow-up shots (when I'm doing groups) occasionaly hits the preceeding pellet square-on, or maybe off, enough to cause a big-time, right back out of the same hole ricochet! And powerful ricochets, too! I was pretty danged surprised the first couple of times it happened, but it made me stop and think about it. Over the past couple'a years, I'm kind of ashamed to admit I'd grown kind of sloppy in my regular use of safety glasses with my airguns; THIS absolutely changed my mind about it not being that big a deal if I didn't always use 'em. Oh yes. I can only imagine how I'd feel if I had an an eye put out from an errant flyer, while my safety glasses were layin' unused on the desk practically right in front of me. A good reminder that eye protection is a pretty good idea for airgun enthusiasts, especially indoors.
That's about it. If any interested party (if there are any interested parties) would like more detail about the maybe eight or ten different .177 and .22 caliber lead free pellets I've tried so far, or anything else I've mentioned, feel free to ask and I'll be happy to try getting you what I can.
For any that might be interested, about the best performing, cheapest 'unleaded' pellets I've found so far are the Match Green pellets from H&N. Like pretty much everything made by H&N, it's a higher quality product: more than accurate enough for day-to-day use and about the heaviest of all the leadfree pellets I've tried. They're quite good (maybe even suitable for close-up pesting) overall, although being wadcutters (and with the extra weight), they leave a larger display on and around the bulls eyes of the adhesive Shoot-N-C reactive targets I use than something more aerodynamic, and I like shooting in groups of three to five pellets, which for me can be a problem. The larger amount of background material knocked off by impact, even with nearly hole-in-hole accuracy, can result in the red, orange or whatever of the BE totally disappearing with the second or third shot, even in .177 caliber (pointy pellets leave the smallest holes/displays of all, which at first can be nearly invisible at only thirty feet, but I'm not a big fan of the pointy ones), totally eliminating the initial point of aim on two inch targets with three-quarter inch bulls eyes. Not a big deal really, but it's something I generally prefer to avoid, leading me to choose something else for my day-to-day use (appearing soon). Next up in price are the H&N Field Target Trophy Green pellets, which possibly are the lightest lead-frees available, but I've had some problems with accuracy and don't really like the type. Next up, providing excellent overall performance and accuracy -- at a 'reasonable' price -- are the H&N Baracuda (that's the spelling H&N uses) Green pellets, which is the general-purpose pellet I'll be using most often, if I don't find something with a similar or better price/performance ratio. I like them enough that after a couple of tins worth of trial test-driving, I bought a whole mess with the last airgun purchase we made (the VERY nice, usefully powerful (small game and pest capable), walnut-stocked, metal breech equipped Crosman 2023 hundredth anniversary version of their venerable and inexpensive C362 variable pumper) back in early September of '23, and still have more than ten thousand left).
I still have somewhere around five other pellet types from various manufacturers, but they're either so super expensive or poor performers I'll skip over 'em, but worthy of mention in both .177 and .22 caliber are the GTO Domed Head Pellets from Predator International Incorporated. They are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive (last tins I bought were nearing thirty bucks for two hundred in .22 caliber), but man-oh-man, do they ever give great performance! That's the case both in .177 and .22 caliber, and I think Predator also sells a .25 caliber pellet, but that'll need verification.
IMO, also worthy of note in .22 caliber, are the "Red Flight Lead-Free .22-Caliber Ultra Heavy Pointed Pellets (100-Count)," from Crosman. Like most lead free pellets, they're very expensive (ten cents plus per pellet, or ten bucks and change per tin of 100). Still, these quite lengthy (some airguns won't be able to accommodate them), 16.7 grain, combo plastic sheathing and pointy metal business end pellets are very accurate, very fast (seemingly at any rate -- without chronograph verification) and provide some absolutely incredible penetration into my homegrown, cardboard-sheet-filled pellet trap; more than ANY other pellet I've tried, including the many different lead pellets I still have in quantity! Even with only a three to five pump power up, when shot from my Seneca Dragonfly Mk2 and/or Crosman C2023 pumpers, I discovered, when removing and replacing the cardboard sheets making up the 'stuffing' in my trap, that these pellets travel a good deal further than other pellets, very close to (although not quite) all the way through all of the 25 to 30 cardboard sheets making up the trap stuffing. I was about shocked by this initially, but that extra weight, coupled with the pointy business end, means they have get up and go down to the wire when pushed out of my .22 airguns. I'm not sure that would be a good thing for hunting/pesting -- they might provide only quick, straight-thru, in-and-out types of wounds on small-game sized critters and pests, which might be a problem if one-shot kills are your goal, but
I haven't had the need to try 'em on an animal and just don't know. They certainly have the FPS for the job, but I'm just not sure about that energy actually causing the sort of damage required to take larger small-game-sized critters down with only one shot. Anyone else out there have any experience with this one way or the other?
One other thing I feel I ought to mention, since a few folks warned me that lead-free pellets can be prone to richochet... You're right: THEY SURE CAN BE!
It doesn't happen really often, but it does happen now and then, enough that I think something like hole-in-hole follow-up shots (when I'm doing groups) occasionaly hits the preceeding pellet square-on, or maybe off, enough to cause a big-time, right back out of the same hole ricochet! And powerful ricochets, too! I was pretty danged surprised the first couple of times it happened, but it made me stop and think about it. Over the past couple'a years, I'm kind of ashamed to admit I'd grown kind of sloppy in my regular use of safety glasses with my airguns; THIS absolutely changed my mind about it not being that big a deal if I didn't always use 'em. Oh yes. I can only imagine how I'd feel if I had an an eye put out from an errant flyer, while my safety glasses were layin' unused on the desk practically right in front of me. A good reminder that eye protection is a pretty good idea for airgun enthusiasts, especially indoors. That's about it. If any interested party (if there are any interested parties) would like more detail about the maybe eight or ten different .177 and .22 caliber lead free pellets I've tried so far, or anything else I've mentioned, feel free to ask and I'll be happy to try getting you what I can.
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Howdy L.Leon: I only had a problem with one person that kept calling me a liar. -- no pontificating, preaching or anything else was intended -- I'm just trying to cut down as much as possible on what I'm contributing to anything inside my home and what's already outside it. And yep, as I figured was a possibility with my original post, I figure I might end up having to go with a heavy lead pellet to maximize my chance of one-shot kills on any rats and such that wanna hang around the crib. As long as I recover the corpse-sickle afterwards and bury it somewhere, (hopefully) it won't get gobbled up by any other critters I didn't intend to poison with lead. ;-)Wow! So after all that pontificating and typing the OP is sticking with lead…
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For plinking and targets I try and capture the majority of pellets sent down range… For pests its a non issue for me as my lifetime opportunities are strictly limited… Most people naturally do what they can to “mitigate“ the harm their existence may cause others... That is my belief…
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The lead free 8gr zans worked for me, I finally fot a chance to try them out in my hatsa at-44 now that I got a barrel with a concentric rifling.Excepting those times I find incredibly low prices at Amazon or elsewhere online (which also means taking fairly significant chances with the all-but-ubiquitous poor packaging that can mean damaged, inaccurate pellets), I prefer to buy in quantity, in multiples of four tins, of course (the most ever having been 24 tins, IIRC), from the exceptionally nice folks at the Pyramyd Air website. Great place to buy airguns and equipment too, and I've almost always received some of the best customer service available anywhere while doin' business with them. If you're not familiar with the 'site (not too probable I'd guess, but possible), they offer a great deal on pellets (all types and sizes) when you buy in multiples of four tins -- purchase four tins and one is free. Unless you can order enough to qualify for free shipping, it can mean the total price per pellet is still about the same as that from other sellers, so that's another good reason (or excuse <grin>) to order as many pellets as you can afford along with the next good scope, metal trap, airgun or whatever you were gonna buy anyway. With free shipping, buying pellets in groups of four tins can mean incredibly low prices, and who doesn't like saving money? Their packaging of pellets also is about the best in the business, in my experience, and you'll probably never receive pellets damaged in transit from them, yet even on the small chance you do, their excellent customer service is there to make things right. As I mentioned, it's a very good place for airgun hobbyists shopping online, if you haven't tried 'em out yet.
For any that might be interested, about the best performing, cheapest 'unleaded' pellets I've found so far are the Match Green pellets from H&N. Like pretty much everything made by H&N, it's a higher quality product: more than accurate enough for day-to-day use and about the heaviest of all the leadfree pellets I've tried. They're quite good (maybe even suitable for close-up pesting) overall, although being wadcutters (and with the extra weight), they leave a larger display on and around the bulls eyes of the adhesive Shoot-N-C reactive targets I use than something more aerodynamic, and I like shooting in groups of three to five pellets, which for me can be a problem. The larger amount of background material knocked off by impact, even with nearly hole-in-hole accuracy, can result in the red, orange or whatever of the BE totally disappearing with the second or third shot, even in .177 caliber (pointy pellets leave the smallest holes/displays of all, which at first can be nearly invisible at only thirty feet, but I'm not a big fan of the pointy ones), totally eliminating the initial point of aim on two inch targets with three-quarter inch bulls eyes. Not a big deal really, but it's something I generally prefer to avoid, leading me to choose something else for my day-to-day use (appearing soon). Next up in price are the H&N Field Target Trophy Green pellets, which possibly are the lightest lead-frees available, but I've had some problems with accuracy and don't really like the type. Next up, providing excellent overall performance and accuracy -- at a 'reasonable' price -- are the H&N Baracuda (that's the spelling H&N uses) Green pellets, which is the general-purpose pellet I'll be using most often, if I don't find something with a similar or better price/performance ratio. I like them enough that after a couple of tins worth of trial test-driving, I bought a whole mess with the last airgun purchase we made (the VERY nice, usefully powerful (small game and pest capable), walnut-stocked, metal breech equipped Crosman 2023 hundredth anniversary version of their venerable and inexpensive C362 variable pumper) back in early September of '23, and still have more than ten thousand left).
I still have somewhere around five other pellet types from various manufacturers, but they're either so super expensive or poor performers I'll skip over 'em, but worthy of mention in both .177 and .22 caliber are the GTO Domed Head Pellets from Predator International Incorporated. They are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive (last tins I bought were nearing thirty bucks for two hundred in .22 caliber), but man-oh-man, do they ever give great performance! That's the case both in .177 and .22 caliber, and I think Predator also sells a .25 caliber pellet, but that'll need verification.
IMO, also worthy of note in .22 caliber, are the "Red Flight Lead-Free .22-Caliber Ultra Heavy Pointed Pellets (100-Count)," from Crosman. Like most lead free pellets, they're very expensive (ten cents plus per pellet, or ten bucks and change per tin of 100). Still, these quite lengthy (some airguns won't be able to accommodate them), 16.7 grain, combo plastic sheathing and pointy metal business end pellets are very accurate, very fast (seemingly at any rate -- without chronograph verification) and provide some absolutely incredible penetration into my homegrown, cardboard-sheet-filled pellet trap; more than ANY other pellet I've tried, including the many different lead pellets I still have in quantity! Even with only a three to five pump power up, when shot from my Seneca Dragonfly Mk2 and/or Crosman C2023 pumpers, I discovered, when removing and replacing the cardboard sheets making up the 'stuffing' in my trap, that these pellets travel a good deal further than other pellets, very close to (although not quite) all the way through all of the 25 to 30 cardboard sheets making up the trap stuffing. I was about shocked by this initially, but that extra weight, coupled with the pointy business end, means they have get up and go down to the wire when pushed out of my .22 airguns. I'm not sure that would be a good thing for hunting/pesting -- they might provide only quick, straight-thru, in-and-out types of wounds on small-game sized critters and pests, which might be a problem if one-shot kills are your goal, but
I haven't had the need to try 'em on an animal and just don't know. They certainly have the FPS for the job, but I'm just not sure about that energy actually causing the sort of damage required to take larger small-game-sized critters down with only one shot. Anyone else out there have any experience with this one way or the other?
One other thing I feel I ought to mention, since a few folks warned me that lead-free pellets can be prone to richochet... You're right: THEY SURE CAN BE!
That's about it. If any interested party (if there are any interested parties) would like more detail about the maybe eight or ten different .177 and .22 caliber lead free pellets I've tried so far, or anything else I've mentioned, feel free to ask and I'll be happy to try getting you what I can.
https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/177-at-44-putting-in-some-work.1309055/
With no wind I was able to stack them in the same hole out to 45yds, but with the heavy winds I got yesterday it blew them left to right quite a bit. Still managed to get some invasive geese.
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That's a pretty significant increase in weight from anything I've tried so far (close to 7 grains was the best I found, and I thought I'd tried nearly all of 'em available <grin>); I'll definitely have to give those a try! Thanks for the heads up.
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You're welcome, I've only seen one youtuber try these slugs out and it was on a sub 12fpe platform. Didn't make much sense to me since the packaging suggest you need at least fac power levels. For .177 I consider that at least 18fpe. I shoot during the weekdays for my job so I'll see about shooting a group here and there and show you some results.
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I haven't had a chance to shoot these farther, but here's a 9 shot group. Shot at a dirt pile to make sure it was near the crosshairs, I didn't shoot a couple lead free shots or anything I went straight from 10.03gr mk3 jsb to the zan lead free and this was the result at 34yds. I'm 100% positive the group would've been much better because I've done it before.
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My Grandfather and Uncle had a business making bullets, they were also competitive shooters, both made it well into their late 80'/s early 90's. I'm far more worried about what is being pushed now than about some lead pellets.
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Being in CA there are a number of places that are lead free even for air rifles (the whole state is lead free for firearms) that I hunt ground squirrels on and the H&N Barracuda green in .25 at 19.91 gr work great * in the right rifle*. I use my Royale 25 on low power and get around 23 FPE so out to 75 yds or so is no problem. The 16.5 gr .25 GTO also work very well. In 22 the BG are pretty light but I have used them and they work ok but I stocked up on 17 gr Dynamics from AOA when then had them and since I don't hunt lead free very often they should last me a few years and are deadly out of my AirWolf on low power. The ZAN lead free slugs look interesting if your rifle likes them.
I would not *choose* to use lead free since lead has better choices and better knock down power and lead free tends to "ice pick" the target since it tends to zip right through them since it's so hard. I recycle all my lead and non lead rounds at my home range but out in the field I don't think lead pellets are something to be concerned about. As other have said wash your hands after handling a lot of ammo but really there are lots of other contaminates out there to be concerned about before your ammo.
I would not *choose* to use lead free since lead has better choices and better knock down power and lead free tends to "ice pick" the target since it tends to zip right through them since it's so hard. I recycle all my lead and non lead rounds at my home range but out in the field I don't think lead pellets are something to be concerned about. As other have said wash your hands after handling a lot of ammo but really there are lots of other contaminates out there to be concerned about before your ammo.
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All of the lead from every air gunner combined on the plant probably equals a fraction of 1% of what chevron or shell polluted in a single day. Let the lead fly!
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Good post OP. I'm a fan of dealing with some annoy pests and leaving them in the woods for other critters to enjoy the free meal. I just particularly don't like the idea of contributing to the lead content in the stomach of a hawk or fox. They've been dealt enough bad card with all the rodenticide poisoning they get from the poisoned critters they eat. I hear where you're coming from, but I'm quickly realizing now that using an airgun, as opposed to a suppressed .22LR with green rounds, isn't better for the environment. The .22LR being the better option of the two due to availability of lead free rounds.
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I imagine you'll have no problem whatsoever if you stick with a .22 firearm! ;-) I'm gettin' on in years now and realistically, probably won't need hunting ammo at all any longer, but JIC (and for the inevitable appearance of small pest critters), I have discovered some heavier pellets from Crosman in .22 caliber that should get be capable of getting the job done. They weigh in at a pretty nice 16.7 grains (yes, I'm somewhat easily impressed, since I'm not used to anything over about 10 or 12 since going lead free), which is pretty good for a .22 pellet anyway, much less a lead free round. They're called Red Flight Penetrators (model # LF22167) and come packaged in unusually small, round tins of 100 (mine were a smidge over ten bucks per tin, or a hair over ten cents each, at the time of purchase). They turned out to be very accurate out of all of the airguns in which I tried 'em, are fairly long (they may not fit in some airguns), they're sharply-pointed, long steel or alloy rods, jacketed in red plastic to fit the breech, and they actually do just what the name implies. I used to stuff my pellet trap with about 30 sheets of cardboard, put together from the cut-up boxes in which our online purchases were delivered, and even with only four or five pumps, my Crosman Anniversary Special C2023 (the slightly more powerful, walnut-stocked, metal breech-equipped version of their nice little .362 carbine) shot these hard enough to penetrate much further through that cardboard than anything else I'd tried! Far enough in fact, it made me more than a little concerned about maybe going all the way through trap, stuffing and all, with even just a little bit more power! I've since moved to rubber mulch for my stuffing material, which works well even at full power, and I also placed four two foot by two foot, foam rubber floor tiles behind the trap as a backstop, so it's thankfully not a problem any more (I just found that out for sure earlier today, having redone my trap and shooting area completely). Anyhow, I thought I'd pass on my experience with these pellets, just in case the odd wild hair to try pesting or hunting with a .22 caliber air rifle pops up again. ;-) Whatever you use, good luck!
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I appreciate the advice thanks. .22LR is certainly easier at this point, and frankly cheaper. Breaking into the PCP game isn't for the poor
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Thank you for your long description. Today I was lubing and testing some pellets for an awesome little CO2 rifle the Artemis Cp2 when it dawn on me that I spent the whole afternoon handling lead. "I think that for all of us is a stupid thing to do". Our neurology health is much more important. I am into hunting. With a background in firearms since a teenager, Army and some competitions. I have been researching to buy a high end PCP, but I think that the reasonable thing to do is to start asking for Polymer and copper coated pellets, slugs, etc. The science and technology is out there to please a market demand.
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