Leaving a CO2 gun charged

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otis1016

Member
Feb 10, 2022
135
92
Alabama, United States
Afternoon everyone,



I hope everyone had a happy Easter. Question about care and maintenance of PCP rifles. I have a Beeman AR2078A rifle bought new that I think I've mentioned here before. I'm assuming it is considered a PCP. This is a CO2 rifle and I'm assuming that I'm putting this question in the right place. I was told when I bought it that it is best if I keep it charged all the time. I normally put two 12 gram CO2 cartridges in it. The person who told me this is a certified repairman who has done some very good work for me since I got into all of this. I bumped into a video on YouTube from Andy's Airgun Review concerning care and maintenance of air guns. He says quite the opposite, that a CO2 gun should not be left charged as it will cause problems in the seal system and begin to leak down at some point. I would expect to have to replace O-rings in an air rifle sooner or later but want to get the best life I can get out of any of my rifles. I have an old Crosman that uses a single 12mg cartridge and I never leave it charged. I've had it since I was about 12 and have always followed that procedure. Of course eventually the seals did fail and I had it all rebuilt and still shoot it now and then just for fun. The Beeman was bought for match shooting and so far has exceeded my expectations. I'm planning to shoot my first match with it Saturday at CMP in Alabama. When I'm done should I remove pressure or should I keep it fully charged as I've been doing? I have a Benjamin PCP that I use a hand pump to charge and it stays charged at all times. No CO2 but it shows no signs of leaking air at all and I've had it for about a year. I use 2 12 gram cartridges because I need to get 60 rounds shot and experimentation shows that 2 will provide enough pressure to do all 60 without a recharge. So what is the best practice here for proper storage and good service life? Thanks.


Rick H.
 
Most co2 guns are better left uncharged this is because of the type of seals they use. My umarex fusion had an end cap with seals that swole up 10 times thier original size and made it hard to deal with degassing. I switched to an end cap with a different material for the oring and now it holds co2 forever with no issues. It really depends on the construction of your gun. If your maintenance guy suggests leaving it charged he probably knows what he is talking about. I believe mac1 uses seals on alot of co2 pistols that stay sealed forever. 
 
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This is from pyramid air report written by Tom Gaylord titled can co2 guns be left charged. He does not mention seals but does say that older models hold air forever and new ones slowly leak. This is due to seals.

How long can CO2 guns be left charged?
This is where the question gets personal. There are owners who obey the letter of the instructions and see it necessary to remove the cartridge within 5 minutes of shooting. If they planned on shooting again tomorrow, they would still remove the cartridge today.

Then, there are the more broad-minded owners who believe that they should remove the cartridges only when they think they’ve finished shooting the gun for a longer time. These are the people who will leave a cartridge installed for a week of shooting. I tend to agree with this group. But, sometimes, they forget what they’re doing and the cartridge never comes out.

The manuals are vague on this point, and I wouldn’t expect a firm answer from an airgun company, either. They have to defend themselves in court for whatever irresponsible actions are taken by those who use their products, so they can’t afford to give them any basis for a lawsuit.

I’ve left my modern CO2 guns charged for years, and eventually they all seem to leak down. Some will hold for more than a year, but eventually they all do seem to leak down.

My vintage CO2 guns, on the other hand, are always charged and never leak. They are like PCP guns, in that respect.
 
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I always leave my vintage Co2 guns charged. Then when I go to shoot them years later they are still good to go.

The guns that I have not left charged have not been able to get a good seal at the Co2 cart or the valve. and have leaked when left for extended periods of time..

I also keep my Crosman 22xx guns charged as well.

Many, if not most times I can install a Co2 cart, with a drop of oil on it, in the gun and then set it upright, so the oil gets to the seal, will fix a leaky cartridge seal. I usually let the gun sit for a couple of days before piercing the cart.
 
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personally i dont think it matters and co2 guns are cheap and most likely your cartridge will ooze dry in a few days anyway .. just 'do' put some silicone oil on the cartridge tip ...
Click to expand...

Yeah...not so much !

I have a Walther CP99, c02 pistol that's been nearly a fully charged for the better part of three months. About a week back, I loaded it, and proceeded to put three magazines though it, then put it away again, still charged..!

I have an older, Tanfoglio Custom, that still has pressure from sitting. Along with a Beretta Md. 84, that's been sitting for I don't recall how long, with a "little" pressure in it.

So much for the oozing factor..!

I'll put a new cartage in the Md. 84, and see how long it holds a usable charge. Are we taking bets ? Days, weeks, maybe a month ?



Mike
 
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April 19, 2022 at 6:53 am Reply | quote | Flag | Link



Jonah

Member

United States


Accuracy: +8




I leave all CO2 guns charged. Have never seen it do any harm to any of the guns.



Ditto on comment above, don't shoot CO2 guns anymore but never had a problem other then CO2 cartridge sometimes stuck on getting released. Just cock and pull the trigger on empty cartridge and it comes loose.
 
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I am an OLD airgunner, going back to my first in the early 1960's, a model 25 Daisy Pump Gun. In recent years I've really gotten into CO2 pistols, automatic blowbacks and revolvers. It keeps getting better with the replica pistols all the time, especially in the last 4-5 years. My only issue is CO2 cartridges leaking. I've tried Crosman Pellgun oil, RWS air chamber lube, Crossman, Gamo, and Umarex cartridges and many guns leak horrendously after just a few cartridges. Recently I bought two new pistols in back to back months: In Dec. the Springfield Armory 1911 by Air Venturi, and in January the second generation Walther PPK blowback pistol by Umarex/Walther.

After some teething problems with lubrication, the 1911 from Air Venturi has been fine, and the CO2 seal holds well- The realism of this one is super, with convincing faux wood grips, all chrome outer barrel, and very complete field stripping - which is a blast to do (no pun intended)!

The newer PPK initially is very pleasing with an improved firmer trigger pull, hidden, flush, CO2 tightening screw, and much improved overall fit and finish to my 2002 original version. That's no typo, yes 2002, then marketed by Crosman, then taken back by Umarex, owner of Walther. I'd maintained that 2002 PPK with parts from my friends at Umarex in Arkansas. Problem is though that I've gone through TWO (2 ) CO2 seals, the one that butts up to the 12 gram tube in 2 months and it's getting old! I'm using all Umarex cartridges, RWS silicone - air chamber lubricant, taking the cartridges off after 1-2 days, but I keep having leak failures when loading CO2. I believe the gasket material is too soft, and NOT resilient. I'd guess it to be polyurethane. It would be one thing if they sold you the seals - which they don't, but worse is the fact that they are now using metal punches into the threads to prevent you from unscrewing the retaining rings for the failed seals. My only recourse is to buy another air valve assembly from my parts guys at Umarex in Fort Smith, ARK at $18 each.

Does anyone have any advice on this?

Bluemill
3/14/23
 
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I'm not familiar with that particular model but the most durable seal material for CO2 will indeed be polyurethane for its superior abrasion and tear resistance, and the too soft problem can be addressed by getting a replacement in 90 durometer. Do you know the size already or can you measure it with calipers (thickness and outside diameter)? And is it an O-ring or a flat seal?
 
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Dear Trig, Thanks for the quick answer! I did do micrometer measurements earlier today on the flat gasket, which is 2mm thick, and has a diameter of 8mm, with a hole for the cartridge piercer in the center of 3.75mm. The newest seals that failed are totally clear in color- or lack thereof. The old seals I have which lasted years are pinkish now, likely as a result of the Crosman pelgun oil. I can easily twist the seal with two hands, index fingers and thumbs. I went through 6 cartridges today trying various old gaskets, seal retainers, etc. I fear I may have a problem with the frame of the gun which I will have to disassemble tomorrow to check out. Bluemill
 
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Okay it sounds like you are a DIY kind of guy. So am I so my perspective is it would be pretty trivial to use a hollow leather punch to knock out some replacement seals from a piece of polyurethane sheet stock. So I took a quick look on McMaster to see if they carry metric thicknesses in 90 or 95 durometer. II see some 1/16" and 3/32" which are on either side of 2mm, but none at 2mm exactly.

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com

Since I'm not there to help you assess other possible solutions, I'll just pose a few ideas for you to consider:

1. Look elsewhere for an exact match for 2mm thick stock.
2. Inspect the way parts fit together to see if slightly thinner stock (1/16") or slightly thicker stock (3/32") is likely to work.
3. Try the closest match O-ring. I have successfully done so in other CO2 guns...that is, replaced a flat 2mm seal with a -00x series O-ring (0.070" thick). For example the 3.75mm ID is for piercing pin clearance so that dimension is presumably a relaxed one. The 8mm OD is 0.315" which is a match for a -008 O-ring. I have some of this size in 90 durometer polyuretane so if you think there's a chance it might work, PM me your address and I'll put a couple in the mail for you.
 
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Yes, I'm a DIY person, and I'm convinced it's more fun fixing my stuff than using it! Also, your suggestion about making new seals was my plan. Great minds think alike! I'd been on the McMaster-Carr site before, and planned on using hollow leather punches, (but didn't know what to call the tool- or where to get them). In the past I bought from ebay gasket kit assortments, and one of them included what looked like a perfect green O ring that fit the brass retaining ring which I tried yesterday -but it also failed. Honestly, I had so many failures I'm worried that the frame of the pistol may have been distorted by over tightening the CO2 punching screw. It was a weak point of the first generation gun, and I need to investigate this today as the current gun is still under warranty. With the old design the distortion of the frame could lead to a poor alignment of the mating surface of the cartridge to the seal, or as in one case the frame actually cracked. The new design has different, larger hardware, so the frame may actually be weaker than the old one. So I'm doing some dissecting today first.

I am thrilled to have your obvious very technical expertise and advice on this fix. THANK YOU!
 
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After the last post I anticipated your question.... In the past it has been the case that a bit more tightening when there is obvious hissing and loss of CO2 that it will stop, or has 50% of the time. After cracking a frame years ago I had learned my lesson- or so I thought. The PPK was an early replica bb air pistol, and its materials and design were great for its time, but by today's standards pretty weak on the frame materials. The key now for me is to look under the trim to see how the frame looks. Give about an hour or so to do that. Check out the Pyramyd Air website to get a better look at the pistol- Umarex/Walther PPK bb pistol- $80.
 
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