HW/Weihrauch Leaving springers cocked.

[Mycapt65]

I left a Vortek kitted Hw30 cocked for a few days. Later when the velocity tested low I replaced the spring assuming it was wasted. After all the seal appeared perfect and held pressure anywhere in the stroke.. The velocity was still sub par (par=8fpe). Seal tested good, new spring and still low maybe the compression tube?So I swapped the new spring and piston seal assembly into another good working 30. I have a few of them. The velocity dropped to the same number on the other 30. Obviously there's nothing wrong with the compression tube. Turns out the piston seal was bad and the spring was never the issue. It was totally fine after being left cocked for days.

This week my 177 Hw50 was testing low. About 750-760 with a 8.44 JSB. I know that that gun has also been left cocked for days. After all it didn't ruin my 30. Justifiably I didn't suspect a soft spring. After all, leaving the 30s cocked didn't bother them. I swapped out the piston seal on the 50 since that turned out to be the problem on the 30. There was no change in the 50. Even after breaking in. I reluctantly swapped in a new spring into the 50 and it snapped back to 800fps. That's 12 fpe which is about right for a 177 50.

This just goes to show two things.
1) the effects of leaving a gun cocked varies by gun.
2) seemingly good piston seals can be bad.

There's always stuff to learn with springers. I'm continually humbled by them.

Be well
Ron

 

[Duckfish]

Why would you leave guns cocked? Was it loaded too? Just asking.

 

[BABz58]

Do people jack their cars up after every trip to work or store?
You know, to get the 4K-5k lbs off the springs.

All kidding aside. I believe it to be true that a good spring will retain the majority of its strength when left compressed.
I could be wrong But I don’t fear leaving one cocked for an undetermined amount of time.
If it was a wall hanger, I’d leave it empty and uncocked.
Not a lot is completely Black and White.

 

[Mycapt65]

Here's the good the bad and ugly. Always the whole page. Ten shot groups at 33+ on 1 through 5. Five shots at groups 6 and 7 and I blew it on 8 & 9 so I shot ten on those. The orange stickers are 1"
Oy well.

 

[Mycapt65]

Why would you leave guns cocked? Was it loaded too? Just asking.

Yes of course. Safety was on if it makes you feel safer. I'm not interested in entertaining the same stupid arguments from my left my Hw30 cocked thread. If you're so incline look it up and let it go.

 

[Mycapt65]

Do people jack their cars up after every trip to work or store?
You know, to get the 4K-5k lbs off the springs.

All kidding aside. I believe it to be true that a good spring will retain the majority of its strength when left compressed.
I could be wrong But I don’t fear leaving one cocked for an undetermined amount of time.
If it was a wall hanger, I’d leave it empty and uncocked.
Not a lot is completely Black and White.

I was a high end car mechanic for 20 plus years, a railroad diesel machinest for 15 years. I've built small and big block Chrysler drag motors that seen 10000 and 8500 rpm respectively without fail. I'm well versed in both automotive and train suspension and engine coil springs.
Coil springs can go bad if left compressed. It depends on materials, time and how compressed they were left. Most springers come very close to coil bind. Passenger car valve and suspension springs are never left near coil bind..

 

[Duckfish]

I always leave a cocked loaded HW 30 by the front door. You never know when a crazed rabid cotton tail might come crashing thru a window. LOL!!

You are obviously much more intelligent than I am. So please forgive me for being so stupid as to be concerned about you and your loved ones safety.

 

[Mycapt65]

I always leave a cocked loaded HW 30 by the front door. You never know when a crazed rabid cotton tail might come crashing thru a window. LOL!!

You are obviously much more intelligent than I am. So please forgive me for being so stupid as to be concerned about you and your loved ones safety.

Please don't be offended. I'm not suggesting I'm more intelligent or you're stupid. If you read the other thread as I suggested you might understand my position. I'm not interested in entertaining the same argument again. I keep lots of loaded weapons around the house and I have my reasons. There's a loaded 9mm om my bedstand and 2 loaded ARs and a shotgun at the foot of my bed. That may scare some people but we've never had an accidental discharge because we practice safe handling.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I keep many loaded guns throughout my house as well but none are airguns.

 

[Duckfish]

Holy moly
I guess you’re more than ready for an attack of zombie squirrels. Lol
Peace out!!

 

[marflow 777]

i think that, oh no i left my spring cocked, is less of a problem and more thought to be the fact
over the years there has plenty written about it
now is it bad YES
will it hurt maybe-maybe not
have i ever read a test being done on just this problem no i can't remember one
so, the question is what damaged the seal
hard to damage a seal when it is cocked
one last thing
you chased your tail when the problem was in hand, the seal and if i understand you right you have seals at hand for backup
i have always believed when in doubt replace the seal

 

[Mycapt65]

i think that, oh no i left my spring cocked, is less of a problem and more thought to be the fact
over the years there has plenty written about it
now is it bad YES
will it hurt maybe-maybe not
have i ever read a test being done on just this problem no i can't remember one
so, the question is what damaged the seal
hard to damage a seal when it is cocked
one last thing
you chased your tail when the problem was in hand, the seal and if i understand you right you have seals at hand for backup
i have always believed when in doubt replace the seal

Yes I know seals don't go bad from being left cocked. The seal on the Hw30 probably degraded over time and I hadn't noticed it. I hadn't chrono'd it in a while. When it chrono'd low after finding it left cocked I thought it might be the spring. I have had Hw30 springs go bad before from being left cocked. The seal looked and tested fine. It was hard to believe it was bad, but it was.

I changed the seal in the 50 first because it looked and tested fine like the 30 but was what was wrong with the 30. Like you said, "when in doubt replace the seal". Turned out the spring on the 50 was bad. What helped me figure it out was someone sent me a brand new 50 to work on and it was a lot harder to cock than mine. The spring had gone soft from being left cocked for days. I only have one 50 so I didn't have another to compare it to until Monday.

 

[Mycapt65]

I keep many loaded guns throughout my house as well but none are airguns.

I was leaving the air rifles cocked and loaded because we get small pests too close to the house for powder guns. The powder guns are for bigger pests. Now I won't leave a spring gun cocked for more than the length of a hunt. I use my 50 for squirrels.

 

[jarmstrong]

I keep my HW 50, 20 cal on the wall, next to an easy to slid open, shooting window, with the barrel just cracked open ,not cocked, with a pellet in the breech
it is a quick to cock and shoot not have to fumble around getting a pellet out of the pouch and inserted
I'll not mention the alternative powered arms

 

[maxtrouble]

I was leaving the air rifles cocked and loaded because we get small pests too close to the house for powder guns. The powder guns are for bigger pests. Now I won't leave a spring gun cocked for more than the length of a hunt. I use my 50 for squirrels.

Sounds like a perfect reason for a .410!

 

[wsjones]

Sounds like a perfect reason for a .410!

That's by the other door. There's a 20 ga. by the other other door. The pellet rifles sort of shift around as necessary, and depending on angle of the sun or precipitation.

My HW50 often stays cocked through day, moving from front to back porch on starling patrol. I haven't left it cocked overnight yet but it's inevitable that'll happen at least once.

 

[Hold_Over]

I have always subscribed to old leaving it cocked with a compressed spring was bad for it...and all the paranoia about how long is too long. This thread has been a good read, perhaps I won't concern myself quite as much since mine are never cocked for anywhere near the length of time discussed here.

 

[dgeesaman]

Do people jack their cars up after every trip to work or store?
You know, to get the 4K-5k lbs off the springs.

Vehicle suspension springs are designed to handle several times their curb weight before reaching max capacity. Putting them on jackstands is only removing a small portion of their design load.

Airgun springs when cocked are at their max design load. How much additional capacity depends on the quality of the spring and how it is designed. I’d happily let a Maccari spring with a lower power tune be cocked for extended periods of time. A factory spring from an inexpensive magnum springer is would be asking for spring set.

 

[klentz]

Vehicle suspension springs are designed to handle several times their curb weight before reaching max capacity. Putting them on jackstands is only removing a small portion of their design load.

Airgun springs when cocked are at their max design load. How much additional capacity depends on the quality of the spring and how it is designed. I’d happily let a Maccari spring with a lower power tune be cocked for extended periods of time. A factory spring from an inexpensive magnum springer is would be asking for spring set.

You reply is not only a fantastic analogy but I completely agree with your assessment of springs in a spring gun when compressed ultimately depends on the quality of the spring.

What hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Tom Gaylord's book about the Beeman R1. He did test on keeping several different types of springs to press over several different periods of time and even though it was in 1995 he had an Oehler chronograph that confirmed that you could could leave the factory spring and even some aftermarket springs compressed for a significant amount of time before velocity was affected

 

[.20calguy]

A good read, Ron.