EDgun Leshiy2 "dwell time" tuning?

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Honestly - I wish you the best. You appear to be in great hands with STubbers because he appears to know freakin everything and isn't afraid to put others down in his awesomeness

Stubbers - FWIW i added a lot more working detail than you want to give credit for. You don't even own a L2 and experience trumps theory any day. You don't tune with the puck and it shows pure ignorance to think you would.

You're a legend in your own mind and people here are getting pretty sick of your uppity attitude. Enjoy your short stay here. People with your attitude don't last long. Tattaa d-h-d.
 
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ctshooter said:
Honestly - I wish you the best. You appear to be in great hands with STubbers because he appears to know freakin everything and isn't afraid to put others down in his awesomeness

Stubbers - FWIW i added a lot more working detail than you want to give credit for. You don't even own a L2 and experience trumps theory any day. You don't tune with the puck and it shows pure ignorance to think you would.

You're a legend in your own mind and people here are getting pretty sick of your uppity attitude. Enjoy your short stay here. People with your attitude don't last long. Tattaa d-h-d.
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There is a block feature if you're not happy with a member here, instead of putting them down, to which I never put you down, I only challenged a few of your opinions on how to remedy this issue for OP.

@bigHUN hopefully you get the results you desire with the guidance ctshooter or myself provided. Many ways to skin this cat as I have alluded. Please do report back if/when you achieve improvements.

-Matt
 
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bigHUN said:
Watching the YT movie again as we speak, and I just found more on YT on this same topic. The winter will be long and ugly :)
Click to expand...

I watched a few myself (from the official Edgun West channel) and they DID include changing the puck size to a smaller puck which I stated in post #20 here:

EDgun - Leshiy2 "dwell time" tuning?

First the Story: For over a year I had the FX .22x600 liner mounted on the L2, 0.5+0.7 jets were performing about a MOA pretty consistently with MRD's @ 50 meter rings. I can safely say the L2 have total exceeding 10K shots, earlier this year I had to replace some worn parts that were effecting...
www.airgunnation.com www.airgunnation.com

Bigger jet + smaller puck is where I would begin your journey, small changes however, such as a 5.5mm puck over the 7.5mm.

-Matt
 
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Read through the Youtube comments as well for other users input. This guy is running a LOT of jet and...a smaller puck.

1698508241245.png
 
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If I am taking the trigger control out of equation... lets assume we mastered that technique to the max finest...
I am interpreting the Dwell tuning in a way that - with a specific jets combination there shall be a break point where raising the Reg shall stop raising the speed - for a given barrel length.
This what I don't have. I am raising the Reg and the speed keeps raising... I didn't wanted to try higher then 150 bars but already on the speed of almost 1100 fps. The pellet weight is irrelevant for this exercise.
This means in my eyes that the jets still not closing the valve fast enough. But if I install bigger jets = over some limit - the indexing stops.
Because the amount/volume of regulated pressure is divided between propelling the pellet and to indexing to work consistently. If there could be two Regs - one for propelling the pellet and one for powering the indexing = that would be the ideal in theory.
That guy have something below the large setscrew from the side, what that thing does? limits the volume or limits the flow to indexing?
 
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BigHun,

I have to wonder first why your L2 doesn’t cycle with the bigger jets. The jets really shouldn’t affect the cycling of the mag. Lower reg pressure does. For example, I run a 1.2/1.4 combination in my pistol build and it reliably cycles. The supply for indexing happens at the very beginning of the shot cycle, before the check valves to the jets are even opened. The trigger pushes the pilot poppet (ball) from its seat and the air in chamber is released. This creates the pressure drop required for main poppet movement, disconnects the trigger and ‘cocks’ the indexer (r2d2). The main poppet moves rearward and the pilot ball is almost immediately reseated (the trigger shouldn’t follow more than approximately 1/2mm), effectively closing flow to the disconnector and indexer. Also allowing the chamber to begin refilling.

As you can see, the jets play little/no role in the cycling but if they did, bigger would be better because the air path to the cycling mechanism is through the jets, ultimately.

Correction…..The underlined sections are not correct, flow to index and disconnect are through cycling jet in main exhaust path, my apologies

Generally speaking, jets are the only control (and most effective) way you should use to control dwell in this system. The only time I would suggest using a puck to choke would be when using 2mm jets and you still want to cut POWER. Fwiw, 2.0mm jets are advertised for use where there are 12fpe rules.

In your example of gaining power as pressure increases, this only indicates your valve is closing before the projectile exits. Pressure doesn’t have as significant effect on dwell as jets do.

Kinda long winded there but I think the first focus in your quest here will be determining if in fact you can’t index with larger jets.

The above is only based on my experiences.

Dave
 
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sb327 said:
...
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Before I say "I don't agree with you" please give me a chance to test that you right or wrong ... so I will be back later with the data, my two barrels are in the machine shop till next week reworking the front thread.
What I will question the following:
- "The jets really shouldn’t affect the cycling of the mag"
- "The supply for indexing happens at the very beginning of the shot cycle, before the check valves to the jets are even opened"

Something wrong with these above because my indexing freezes with higher Reg I never needed lower Reg. I want high Reg air burst shortest vale time possible.
I will be back on this.
 
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sb327 said:
...The main thing to consider really is that the valve should cycle with larger jets than a pair of .7’s ...
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Yes, I agree, should cycle with a pair of 0.7 and lighter pellets 15gn or 18gn >80 bars on the Reg, but for heavier MRD's the jets shall be smaller about 0.5+0.6.
I know the L2 parts list well, and I can take my L2 apart with closed eyes, also can tune well with parts from my drawers.

What nobody actually answered is, "what the 2mm setscrews doing in that forward plug" ? I would like to learn about that trick but not speaking that language.
 
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bigHUN said:
Yes, I agree, should cycle with a pair of 0.7 and lighter pellets 15gn or 18gn >80 bars on the Reg, but for heavier MRD's the jets shall be smaller about 0.5+0.6.
I know the L2 parts list well, and I can take my L2 apart with closed eyes, also can tune well with parts from my drawers.

What nobody actually answered is, "what the 2mm setscrews doing in that forward plug" ? I would like to learn about that trick but not speaking that language.
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I speak Russian. The 2mm set screw has a .7mm hole in it. It is used to reduce flow to the trigger/valve disconnector and magazine cycling. He said it also solved his other mystery problem of big airdumps when dry firing. Some other modder video also had an orfice reduction piece that does the same thing. He sells a shoulder bushing that just presses into that hole. I'm going to try this because one of my Leshiys has a problem cycling at medium pressure (fine both high and low). EDIT - he used a trimmed tire valve spring to replace the tirgger disconnect piston spring to make easier to cycle with less air. Also makes the cycling quieter.
 
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bigHUN said:
Before I say "I don't agree with you" please give me a chance to test that you right or wrong ... so I will be back later with the data, my two barrels are in the machine shop till next week reworking the front thread.
What I will question the following:
- "The jets really shouldn’t affect the cycling of the mag"
- "The supply for indexing happens at the very beginning of the shot cycle, before the check valves to the jets are even opened"

Something wrong with these above because my indexing freezes with higher Reg I never needed lower Reg. I want high Reg air burst shortest vale time possible.
I will be back on this.
Click to expand...
I corrected my original post concerning this…

Is it possible that the path (cycling jet) is obstructed. It seems there has to be something wrong for you to not be able to cycle with larger jets/short dwell in factory form.

Dave
 
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Sergey1972 said:
I speak Russian. The 2mm set screw has a .7mm hole in it. It is used to reduce flow to the trigger/valve disconnector and magazine cycling. He said it also solved his other mystery problem of big airdumps when dry firing. Some other modder video also had an orfice reduction piece that does the same thing. He sells a shoulder bushing that just presses into that hole. I'm going to try this because one of my Leshiys has a problem cycling at medium pressure (fine both high and low). EDIT - he used a trimmed tire valve spring to replace the tirgger disconnect piston spring to make easier to cycle with less air. Also makes the cycling quieter.
Click to expand...
Thank you Sergey. Impossible to find a 2mm setscrew with a 0.7 hole in it, unless I make myself a tool to hold the screw and drill it myself.
I believe - in contrast some said it earlier (post #29) - for a "given" air volume the shot is a first sequence and the indexing is a second sequence right after.
If the "air dump = air blast" is bigger for a shot in first sequence - not enough air volume+pressure is left in that chamber for indexing mechanism to finish the cycle.
I am very interested to hear about your findings and I would like a communication with you about these.
Thanks again
 
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Not sure why there is so much backlash on reducing the puck from 7.5 to say 6.5 or 5.5, when there are videos from Brian himself doing it to his, along with them providing 2 different sizes. It may NOT be necessary but its a VERY simple and REVERSIBLE attempt to get larger jets cycling the action properly. I am not saying the puck itself will cut dwell (smaller tp's don't cut dwell much they more-so cut airflow), I am suggesting it will potentially restore function with larger jets, especially when fine tuned, one should see really no major power loss unless you drop them significantly in diameter.

There is no reason you shouldn't be able to run a single 2mm jet or two 1mm jets at higher pressure. If jet alone was ALL that was needed to cut dwell which would cut power, then puck size wouldn't matter, ever...yet he supplies 6+ different sizes, 2 different sizes when you order the 4 pack, and 4 custom sizes you can order.

I think we all want the simplest, least intrusive and most elegant solution for @bigHUN. No reason to shut down ANY ideas until they are proven to not be effective.

@Sergey1972 has a great possible solution, thanks for your contribution! I like this approach as well as slightly reducing the puck to keep too much air from being directed down the barrel. @bigHUN can easily experiement with various puck sizes without much headache involved to see at what point a reduction costs power, then step back up...

-Matt
 
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bigHUN said:
Thank you Sergey. Impossible to find a 2mm setscrew with a 0.7 hole in it, unless I make myself a tool to hold the screw and drill it myself.
I believe - in contrast some said it earlier (post #29) - for a "given" air volume the shot is a first sequence and the indexing is a second sequence right after.
If the "air dump = air blast" is bigger for a shot in first sequence - not enough air volume+pressure is left in that chamber for indexing mechanism to finish the cycle.
I am very interested to hear about your findings and I would like a communication with you about these.
Thanks again
Click to expand...

Drill and tap a 2mm female thread (or just drill a hole you can press it into ) then lock-tite/super glue it in while you work the hole, then heat and remove?

-Matt
 
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Wait :) I got derailed for a minute from my Boss, didn't had a time to finish what I wanted, and you already jumped in :) :)
So here it goes what I didn't had my time to say.
- no problem with indexing mechanism with small body lightweight pellets like 15-18-21 gn, just any combination of jets;
- the indexing stacked the MRD's 25gn, some of the pellets stuck between the mag exit hole and barrel breach and the indexing didn't happened fully, we had to open the latch to release the damaged MRD's. Because as we know these are full body pellets with much higher friction and need a much higher airblast to get - out of mag and into breach - on time;
The problem what I had was ....
- with a given jet combination (0.7+0.7) if I shoot leightweight pellets one day and wanna jump to MRD's the next day those will stuck, I need to replace the jets to 0.5+0.5. Keep in mind 15gn for backyard and 25 gn for gun range 50 meters target and beyond...
- with that combination of 0.7+0.7 if I shoot a day the MRD's and next day I want to jump back to leightweight pellets, the airblast at the muzzle blows the dust in front of me.
I wanted to help myself employing longer FX .22x600 barrels, and worked not bad, but still not controlled air blast at muzzle.
This what I am trying to figure out ... minimize the air blast at muzzle ...

20231029_112147.jpg


Enlarging that hole at 6 a clock is - non reversible
Making that hole smaller at 3 a clock is - reversible (I can drill 0.7 hole in 2mm setscrew in my garage, will make a jig for it)

Sergey1972 said:

Mind you sending me your other videos for tuning, I am always open to learning
 
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@bigHUN Your original post stated "The goal is to make this L2 basement friendly for the incoming winter.". Between that and reducing dwell it's easy to interpret the two as reducing the power output, as most don't need full power for basement/indoor shooting @ short range.

Are you wanting to retain FULL power for this winter basement tune? Because that in part is a huge reason I suggest reducing puck size marginally while increasing jet, that alone should be all a stock L2 really needs for this scenario, not a bunch of 'hacks', not to say the 2mm screw mod is bad, it's very well a nice, reversible approach that I get behind.

Sizing the puck appropriately will literally have the same effect on power output as increasing that 2mm screw orifice, as you're diverting air from the barrel to the action mechanism, the solution should cost a few fps. My suggestions are well documented on yt and parts available from EdgunWest, Just another 2c :)

Hope you report back with the results you desired soon!

-Matt
 
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I am just bouncing with my ideas.
The Dwell tuning is seasonal in my mind, one low power for winter time in a basement fun with lightweight pellets, and one for summer outdoors at the gun range with high speed heavy pellets.
Missing a second dedicated Reg for indexing mechanism to work with both lightweight and heavy duty pellets - in my eyes is a collateral damage
 
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