I know what you are going through. Your neighbors have been warned... The next step is for the offenders to mysteriously go missing. At least that has been my experience...
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Less than lethal?
- Thread starter Smitty.Mike
- Start date
Highly interesting thread, a very wide range of solutions to ponder for the OP (and many other readers who are in the same situation, now or at some time in the future). 
However, to me it seem there are mainly two types of solutions offered:
(1) Respect the rights of the dog owners, even if they don't respect yours.
Do not do any damage to the dogs or their owner — instead do damage to your own wallet [fence] and damage your free time [train a dog] in order to protect yourself from dog damage.
(2) Protect your own legal rights against the infringement of those rights by the dog owners.
And I'm just wondering if the posters of one type most likely live in a city (or grew up there) —
and the posters of the other type live in the country were there is lifestock, slaughter your own meat, big game hunting — and where animals are treated as servants and food for humanity, not endowed with a status that normally is reserved for humans only.
Sorry for the musings and wonderings, I spent a night atop a mountain just over the clouds, in the grizzly cold, my mind is still recovering....
Matthias
However, to me it seem there are mainly two types of solutions offered: (1) Respect the rights of the dog owners, even if they don't respect yours.Do not do any damage to the dogs or their owner — instead do damage to your own wallet [fence] and damage your free time [train a dog] in order to protect yourself from dog damage.
(2) Protect your own legal rights against the infringement of those rights by the dog owners. And I'm just wondering if the posters of one type most likely live in a city (or grew up there) —and the posters of the other type live in the country were there is lifestock, slaughter your own meat, big game hunting — and where animals are treated as servants and food for humanity, not endowed with a status that normally is reserved for humans only.
Sorry for the musings and wonderings, I spent a night atop a mountain just over the clouds, in the grizzly cold, my mind is still recovering....
Matthias
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Highly interesting thread, a very wide range of solutions to ponder for the OP (and many other readers who are in the same situation, now or at some time in the future).
Do not do any damage to the dogs or their owner — instead do damage to your own wallet [fence] and damage your free time [train a dog] in order to protect yourself from dog damage.
and the posters of the other type live in the country were there is lifestock, slaughter your own meat, big game hunting — and where animals are treated as servants and food for humanity, not endowed with a status that normally is reserved for humans only.
Sorry for the musings and wonderings, I spent a night atop a mountain just over the clouds, in the grizzly cold, my mind is still recovering....
Matthias
I'd only consider (1) if I knew the owners were trying to do the right thing. If they know their dog is going out and killing animals, yet they do nothing, then they're negligent.
I live in a semi-rural setting, but my family is mostly farmers and ranchers. Almost everything I know about animals I learned from the agricultural side of the family.
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You've asked on a public forum, so there's a record, keep that in mind.
Hypothetically, and as someone who raised chickens and ducks for years, you might consider the following options.
You want to keep things neighborly. You've already raised the issue once with the neighbors, that's all the talking that needs to be done. Anymore will only become a negative drain on your relationship with them, and you don't want to start a land war with neighbors.
Ultimately, 16 acres is a good chunk of land, but it is possible to fence it all. Eventually. That is a good long term goal.
In almost every jurisdiction, protection of livestock is legal.
SSS
Quietly.
If any questions are asked by anyone, play dumb and say nothing.
Anything over 150 lbs will need a deep hole or to be parted out.
Sometimes things that must be done aren't pleasant.
Hypothetically, and as someone who raised chickens and ducks for years, you might consider the following options.
You want to keep things neighborly. You've already raised the issue once with the neighbors, that's all the talking that needs to be done. Anymore will only become a negative drain on your relationship with them, and you don't want to start a land war with neighbors.
Ultimately, 16 acres is a good chunk of land, but it is possible to fence it all. Eventually. That is a good long term goal.
In almost every jurisdiction, protection of livestock is legal.
SSS
Quietly.
If any questions are asked by anyone, play dumb and say nothing.
Anything over 150 lbs will need a deep hole or to be parted out.
Sometimes things that must be done aren't pleasant.
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Just mail the neighbor a copy..
From..
TN - Dog - Consolidated Dog Laws | Animal Legal & Historical Center
www.animallaw.info
§ 44-17-201. Owners liability
Where any dog shall kill, or in any manner damage, any livestock in this state, the owner or harborer of such dog shall be liable, in an action for damage, to the owner of such livestock.
1859-1860 Acts, c. 45, § 1; 1949 Pub.Acts, c. 262, § 1.
§ 44-17-201. Owners liability
Where any dog shall kill, or in any manner damage, any livestock in this state, the owner or harborer of such dog shall be liable, in an action for damage, to the owner of such livestock.
1859-1860 Acts, c. 45, § 1; 1949 Pub.Acts, c. 262, § 1.
The bad part about asking questions like this on a public form is that they're discoverable in the event something happens to crappy neighbor's doge and he get pissed and get a lawyer.
I think all states have laws that give more protection to the landowner and their livelihood.
You have the right to protect your livestock with force up to and including lethal force on the attacking animal.
So slingshots, airguns, paintballs, rocks, 12ga are all allowed.
Different states will word it differently, but in a nutshell if you report the killing or wounding of the animal immediately after the defense of livestock that will show just concern for the animals' suffering. You will then have affirmative defense against any civil or criminal action.
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All, thank you all for the awesome discussion and advice! Babaganoush - thank you for that I am going to use this!
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pit bulls are considered "dangerous" and as such you can go to the cops . not neighborly but saves your leg .
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Picking your battles is tough. If you have the run of the mill careless asshole neighbors you may act one way. If you have the full blown batpoop crazy and unpredictable ones, you may act another.
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Beerthief,
Neighbor claims some sort of special citizenship (Sovereign?) which exempts him from following the law. The Sheriff and County Code Enforcement know him well. I've just learned to live with it, glad he's a street over, though. Pepper Spray "treatments" have cured the dogs somewhat, so bike rides are usually event free, these days. WM
Neighbor claims some sort of special citizenship (Sovereign?) which exempts him from following the law. The Sheriff and County Code Enforcement know him well. I've just learned to live with it, glad he's a street over, though. Pepper Spray "treatments" have cured the dogs somewhat, so bike rides are usually event free, these days. WM
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I have 2 PCPs presently and just bought a 3rd. I've recently gotten into less than lethal for several reasons. 1. It is so hard to shot my PCPs in southern California, especially near the coast where I live. 2. Its a 48 mile trip, 96 round trip to get to an outdoor range and the indoor range is just 25 yards. 3. I still go to the ranges but I set up a range along side my house. It works great for less than lethal air guns and helps me get my jones satisfied until I'm ready for the 100 mile round trip. My 50 cal HDR 50 upgraded packs a wallop.
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I know that this is old, but thought I would add some data that might be relevant to anyone thinking a pellet gun could be tuned down low enough to just "sting" something . . .
I have a Huben K1 in .22, and of course they are easily adjustable. I have used mine on chipmunks around my house and garage turned down shooting 18.1 grain pellets at just 275 fps, which is only 3 FPE - it tears into them and kills them dead just fine at that level, and of course leaves a good dent in any wood it hits if I miss (the pellet does bounce out of the dent though, although a few have stuck in a few mm depending on the wood).
Also my 10M target air pistol, shooting 7 grain wadcutters at about 450 fps (3.2 FPE) kills them dead too (smaller area, but only ~60% of the momentum).
I know dogs have thicker skin and more fur than chippers do, but one should expect any action like this to break the skin and have the dog take the pellet with them back home to be discovered by the owner or a vet.
I have a Huben K1 in .22, and of course they are easily adjustable. I have used mine on chipmunks around my house and garage turned down shooting 18.1 grain pellets at just 275 fps, which is only 3 FPE - it tears into them and kills them dead just fine at that level, and of course leaves a good dent in any wood it hits if I miss (the pellet does bounce out of the dent though, although a few have stuck in a few mm depending on the wood).
Also my 10M target air pistol, shooting 7 grain wadcutters at about 450 fps (3.2 FPE) kills them dead too (smaller area, but only ~60% of the momentum).
I know dogs have thicker skin and more fur than chippers do, but one should expect any action like this to break the skin and have the dog take the pellet with them back home to be discovered by the owner or a vet.
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Get a Byrna Co2 gun. https://byrna.com
Large .68 caliber balls either kinetic, pepper spray/CS. Ideal non-lethal.
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I will add some experiences. When I was a teenager I hunted quail with a couple of my uncles. One had a britany and she was well trained and the hunts were fun. The other uncle had poorly trained pointers. He would get frustrated and shoot them at long distance, 100 yards or so, with 7.5 shot. It still went under their skin. You could feel it when you petted them. My other somewhat related experience was a couple of neighbors who used to have bb gun wars with spring powered bb guns. They stung but bounced off their clothing, I guess. But one day they shot their own dog in the eye. That did not bounce off.
If you shoot the dog with a lower powered air rifle there is a decent chance the projectile still penetrates the skin. If the owner finds that wound, what do they do? Situation could escalate. Paintball gun shouldn't penetrate but could still escalate the situation - or might just cause the owner to recognize the issue depending on their personality. Is an electric fence an option? I would think hard about using a gun to sting an animal. I am sure it can be done but I wonder if there is much chance the dog would learn and stay away. Killing it and disposing of it is in many ways safer.
If you shoot the dog with a lower powered air rifle there is a decent chance the projectile still penetrates the skin. If the owner finds that wound, what do they do? Situation could escalate. Paintball gun shouldn't penetrate but could still escalate the situation - or might just cause the owner to recognize the issue depending on their personality. Is an electric fence an option? I would think hard about using a gun to sting an animal. I am sure it can be done but I wonder if there is much chance the dog would learn and stay away. Killing it and disposing of it is in many ways safer.
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if your neighbor was mine and pit bulls, although dogs are my favorite animal.. either the animal control would take them or they would die.. it's illegal to leave your dog
loose and go after bicycles, people or postmanUpvote 0
if you go with a dog.. Anatolian Shepard.. I had one, they have such tough shin they are immune to heartworm.. mine giin a fight saving my goats from a mountain lion.. tracks all over.. blood all over and all the goats were fine and not a scratch in my dog.. so the blood must have come from the lion
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also if you shoot them to kill.. use full power subsonic 22 and bury them and say nothing..
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I have lived in the country all my life and out here it's actually the law that the dog owners are responsible for their dogs.. I love dogs but if they are harming livestock, shoot, bury and shutup.. unfortunately .. could trap and ask animal control to pick up.. I also like the idea of paintball and hopefully the owner will wake up to find his dog is covered in washable paint and hopefully he had a dog door and went in the house and made a mess..Highly interesting thread, a very wide range of solutions to ponder for the OP (and many other readers who are in the same situation, now or at some time in the future).
Do not do any damage to the dogs or their owner — instead do damage to your own wallet [fence] and damage your free time [train a dog] in order to protect yourself from dog damage.
and the posters of the other type live in the country were there is lifestock, slaughter your own meat, big game hunting — and where animals are treated as servants and food for humanity, not endowed with a status that normally is reserved for humans only.
Sorry for the musings and wonderings, I spent a night atop a mountain just over the clouds, in the grizzly cold, my mind is still recovering....
Matthias
View attachment 283070
ultimately it is not the dog, but the owner..
I love dogs a lot, but when choosing between the dogs killing $500 dollar baby cows I was responsible for.. the same thing happened to the coyotes and dogs..
but.. I really love dogs and having to deal with it instead of people being responsible was heartbreaking
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