Little disappointed in my new to me verminator

[Adam]

I have been on the hunt for a compact 177 for plinking and pest control. I would LOVE to get my hands on a BSA Ultra SE, but they cant be shipped from the UK cause of their export laws, so I've been waiting and looking for something else that would fit the bill. I have a few requirements for this dream gun. Precision is key. Above all else i want a surgically precise 177. Light weight and short overall length fall in line behind that with serviceability following.

In my hunt i recently picked up a FX Verminator MK1 which i like better than the MK2 as its lighter, looks better and has a far superior magazine. It ticked at least 2 of the boxes, weight and length, but I am not super satisfied with the groups. I was able to get out and try 17 different pellets, and of those only 2 were "meh, ok-ish" groups. These were only at 18 yards. At that distance i expect a single pellet hole.

I was just under the wrong assumption that the smooth twist barrels were supposed to be less pellet fussy, but mine only likes JSB Heavy's. I know what a good rifle can print and I know my capabilities. Just not impressed with what I got.

Now I don't dislike this gun, quite the contrary, but I know it can be better. If I could find a CZ barrel to replace the ST one it would greatly improve. I'm also thinking that swapping the rear tank with a carbon fiber would be nice, shaving 10-12oz off. Just wondering if anybody has done a barrel swap with this or a similar older gen FX. I would love to hear any input.

 

[Adam]

 

[Coldair]

Your gun is shooting EXCELLENT! Don't do it!!!

ST barrels typically favors one of the magic JSB pellets and you already found it.

If you opt to spend the money to buy a CZ barrel and do what you want then

there are no guarantees that you will get better groups and I think it is not worth

the extra money and labor unless your gun does not shoot anything at all accurately.


CA

 

[steppenwulf]

no surprise with the jsb pellets. based on what i recall reading the smooth twist barrels were made for the jsb pellets. having had a bunch of fx guns i dont bother trying anything else. they just work. that being said, i think you should hold off on any barrel swaps. instead push your shooting distance out to 30 yards or so and see how it does.

 

[Coldair]

If you want more precision then you can do what the target shooters do and weight each and every one of the favorite pellets and measure the head sizes etc... But if you shot those nice groups with pellets straight out of the tins that is excellent.

CA

 

[Adam]

I will be stretching it out when i get the chance and if it can maintain that .33 group out to 40 yards i will be ok, but my HW97k could easily print as good or better at that distance(18yds). I will keep fiddling with it and will see if sorting helps. Will be ordering some pellets here soon. I may be able to get happy with the JSB heavy groups, but I doubt I will be satisfied until I try a different barrel. If a CZ is unobtainable or too expensive, a lother-walther blank is only $112 and I've got a buddy with a lathe that has machined one for me before. It wont be something I jump into right away, I will definitely get the most I can out of it as is, but the tinker gene is strong in my family. I dont have anything mechanical that has stayed stock, guns or otherwise. I just wanted to gather as much knowledge and info about the verm mk1 as possible.

 

[Adam]

But yes all those were unsorted, straight from the tin, 8 shots each.

 

[socaloldman]

I am sure you already know this information but there are a number of other factors that can affect your final group. Single shot , or mag, condition of chamber oring, chrono speed up or down, screws tight or loose, up pressure from stock or position, current temp and weather, and on and on before settling on a barrel swap. best of luck and enjoy. Keep us posted.

 

[Adam]

Yessir, all those things are considered and will fall under the fiddling Ill do over the next few months

 

[AirgunBill]

I have the Verminator MKII in .22 cal. and it would do one hole groups easily at 18 yards with most pellets. Stretch it out to fifty yards and with pellets like the JSB's, H&N Terminators, Hunter Extremes and Baracudas it will shoot 1/2" to 3/4" no problem. Recently upgraded from the 280mm barrel to the 480mm barrel to give me some more power and I believe it is even more accurate now. My thought would be to send it to FX USA in NC. and have them go over the rifle for adjusting and replace the orings and clean the regulator. I am assuming it has one. Then see if it shoots any better. If not then maybe a barrel upgrade. I don't think it would be wasted money. Bill

 

[functor]

Yessir, all those things are considered and will fall under the fiddling Ill do over the next few months

I have a different interpretation of the groups and may be you can consider that as an alternative opinion. You bought the verminator to be a light and handy field carbine which by definition you will almost always shoot offhand, perhaps even standing unsupported. You are shooting a .85 moa ctc group at 18 yards-- let's assume it opens out to 1 moa at 30 yards: does it really matter for a practical carbine? Very few of us can shoot a moa group offhand and almost always shooting with that kind of precision requires a heavy match stocked precision rifle, so what difference would even a half minute difference in accuracy make for practical shooting? You already have a rifle that does everything you wanted it to do and may be you can shoot it the way you envisioned-- in the field-- and perhaps you will never notice that 1/2 minute larger group! If you want to measure groups you can always pull out one of your heavier, more target oriented pcps. 

To give you a personal anecdote: I have a HW 100 carbine which is completely stock and though it shoots 1 moa ctc at 35 yards, it is not as good as my BSA or S410 which go down to .6-.8 moa range. I had the typical airgunner's obsession with group size and thought of changing the barrel etc., etc., until I put a light 3-9 Clearidge on the HW100 and discovered how brilliant the little carbine is at it's intended role-- it's a superb offhand rifle. I never notice that 0.4 moa larger group size when I can pick off pebbles at 40 yards from standing with the HW100 and it is probably the gun I love shooting the most after my HW77. 

 

[Adam]

.5 moa is noticable to me. As far as using it in the field, i do not take offhand shots at quarry. I either know exactly where the shot will land or I do not take the shot. For me, if I clamp the gun down in a gun vise, indoors with sorted and weighed pellets, any group should only be a single pellet sized hole at any distance. While my groups today weren't shot within those parameters, I know what I am capable of on my lil range and none of those groups were acceptable to me. I have seen and done better with other guns, even springers.

 

[Adam]

Got out the chrony and ran several shot strings at the different power levels just as a sanity check. Filled to 200 bar, ending on 150 bar. The first 3 strings are 8 shots each (1 mag) at each power level, followed by 3 strings of 24 shots at each power level and finally one last string of 8 back at high power.


High 886 786 680 888 780 666 854

Low 873 780 673 872 763 657 842

Avg 880 783 676 879 771 661 846

ES 13 6 7 16 17 9 12

Std 4 2 2 3 3 2 4

Shots 8 8 8 24 24 24 8

 

[BH]

Are you clipping? It will be loud, but unscrew the endcap and shoot another group with the 10.3's. They should be one on top of another (same tiny hole).

 

[Adam]

It will be a couple days before I can shoot without the endcap on cause neighbors, but I will see if that makes a difference. I was actually able to find a Air Arms replacement CZ barrel for a CZ200 that is quite affordable and would be easy enough to machine to fit. The transfer port area is a small section of brass that I should be able to order from fx. Im going to make some calls tomorrow and see how much and how obtainable they are and go from there. I've got it taken down for cleaning and oring inspection and whatnot right now. Nothing out of the ordinary so far.

 

[Adam]

As i was cleaning the barrel a cleaning patch got lost in the baffles so barrel shroud disassembly ensued. Actually came apart rather easily with the proper application of the heat gun. Here's what was inside for the curious minded.

 

[Coldair]

I can see hair curlers and washers for in between spacers and all wrapped in scotch brite lubed with pellet lube.

CA

 

[Adam]

Got everything cleaned and reassembled. Luckily the city decided to dig up some water pipes out front, so i was able to shoot some unshrouded groups while they were jack hammering. I shot 3 groups, .36 .41 and .43 and these were with the 10.3's. So I called up FX and the brass inlet is only $9, so I went ahead and ordered one. Then I spoke to Ernest and while he was very diplomatic in his responses he seemed to agree that a different barrel would benefit my situation. His only recommendations were to get a good machinist and to be aware that out of 5 of the same barrels I could get 5 different groupings.