FX Lock this thread please- Discussed with Fredrik, there is no evidence of POI shift in FX barrel liner system

[mubhaur]

Dude from the kebab corner told me there was no evidence his servings were not fresh. And then i was on the loo for 2 days....

As I discussed above I too have some concerns on liner system while I also take the liners to be very accurate.

In fact when the owner of FX firmly conveyed that there is no issue of POI shift in the liner system, I advised him that I would communicate his wording to the airgunners in my country.

Later I thought it would be better to share his views on this forum so that we all could know what FX believes about its products.

I understand that two kind of people are on such forums. One are those who only come to the forum when any product misbehaves. And the others are enthusiasts.

I understand that as FX is the largest selling brand, there are more chances of good and bad things about it.

Normally people having good experience do not come to the forums while those having bad experience come to the forums to share their experiences.

In either case I understand that FX has taken this hobby way ahead of its time. The last 10 years are of FX.

It's the largest seller. People do not buy just due to marketing but the product must be good enough for returning customers.

Good and bad things are with every brand. But we just discuss and take views of various users around the world about FX barrel system.

Bhaur

 

[Privateer]

As thin as those liners are? I'm not even tempted to pour molten lead into them!
Or did you account for thermal expansion in some way?

 

[mubhaur]

Rifling that is pressed from the outside is so non-uniform inside that it makes it impossible to lap them. If you push a slug down the barrel an inch at a time you can observe light visible around one side of the slug in one position... only for the position to change after you have pushed it another inch. This is the washboard that you feel when you slug a barrel of this type. This typically goes on all the way down the barrel. If you try to properly lap one of these barrels by casting a lap of any significant size in the bore...the lap will be unable to move because the rifling is so inconsistent.

Mike

Yes but I agree to the point that the choke fixes all inconsistency issues of rest of the barrel. I understand that FX liner cannot be unchoked and still accurate. Am I right?

 

[Privateer]

Being as I have a .30 liner in 700 mm and plan to cut it down to 600 mm?
I guess I'll find out someday.

 

[qball]

Being as I have a .30 liner in 700 mm and plan to cut it down to 600 mm?
I guess I'll find out someday.

Most people who did that just cut from the breach end, just don't forget to mark it after cutting like from the factory.

 

[mubhaur]

Being as I have a .30 liner in 700 mm and plan to cut it down to 600 mm?
I guess I'll find out someday.

Yes you can know it if you cut it from the muzzle end.

 

[MACTEN]

In fact when the owner of FX firmly conveyed that there is no issue of POI shift in the liner system, I advised him that I would communicate his wording to the airgunners in my country.


Bhaur

Did he mention why FX sells products, that make him quite a bit for poi issues, if POI is a non issue?
Either they know POI is an issue with liners and this is why FX manufactures and sells these products and he lied to you....
Or,...They don't really think poi is a problem and the owner is willing to take advantage of customers for a "non-issue". Either way this isn't a good look.

 

[mubhaur]

Did he mention why FX sells products, that make him quite a bit for poi issues, if POI is a non issue?
Either they know POI is an issue with liners and this is why FX manufactures and sells these products and he lied to you....
Or,...They don't really think poi is a problem and the owner is willing to take advantage of customers for a "non-issue". Either way this isn't a good look.

Logically agreeable views. But at the same time as I have great respect for Fredrik and FX, I would request you to use respectable words.

We cannot deny the unprecedented contribution of Fredrik to this hobby.

FX has shown the best after sale support even in my country where there is no official distributor.

I can't think of any other manufacturer doing this.

Bhaur

 

[MACTEN]

Logically agreeable views. But at the same time as I have great respect for Fredrik and FX, I would request you to use respectable words.

We cannot deny the unprecedented contribution of Fredrik to this hobby.

FX has shown the best after sale support even in my country where there is no official distributor.

I can't think of any other manufacturer doing this.

Bhaur

There was no disrespect in my words. There was only some truth that it's either one or the other. 1. they know there isn't a POI issue and sell those poi products to just make money. 2. They know there is an issue and he told you differently for some unknown reason. Bringing a lot to the AG community doesn't give a person immunity from legitimate questions. eh?

 

[Privateer]

I only have 2 FX Rifles.
A Dreamline Lite that I put a 700 mm barrel on with no shroud, no barrel band.
And a Streamline. Streamline had a barrel band as the Guy said he needed it but I took it off and gave it back to him.
I don't have any problem with POI with the Dreamline but I only shoot bench and am very careful with it.
I'd suspect samething with the Streamline seeing as I don't walk the woods with it.
Now maybe he ment "If you don't bang it around? There's no shift."

 

[nervoustrig]

As thin as those liners are? I'm not even tempted to pour molten lead into them!
Or did you account for thermal expansion in some way?

The deck is stacked to prevent this problem from arising. Lead has a higher coefficient of linear thermal expansion than steel…meaning the lap will shrink more than the bore as it cools. Also, the initial temperature of the lead is considerably higher than the steel.

In other words, both factors favor the lap _not_ getting stuck. The only reason a lap should ever get stuck is due to gross dimensional variation within the bore.

 

[Privateer]

So your saying the liner itself never expands when the hot lead hits it?
I'd suspect it does and could cause issues as it cools along with the lead.


Your gonna make me melt lead and measure a liner as I pour into arn't you!

 

[oOmpH]

As I discussed above I too have some concerns on liner system while I also take the liners to be very accurate.

In fact when the owner of FX firmly conveyed that there is no issue of POI shift in the liner system, I advised him that I would communicate his wording to the airgunners in my country.

Later I thought it would be better to share his views on this forum so that we all could know what FX believes about its products.

I understand that two kind of people are on such forums. One are those who only come to the forum when any product misbehaves. And the others are enthusiasts.

I understand that as FX is the largest selling brand, there are more chances of good and bad things about it.

Normally people having good experience do not come to the forums while those having bad experience come to the forums to share their experiences.

In either case I understand that FX has taken this hobby way ahead of its time. The last 10 years are of FX.

It's the largest seller. People do not buy just due to marketing but the product must be good enough for returning customers.

Good and bad things are with every brand. But we just discuss and take views of various users around the world about FX barrel system.

Bhaur

I agree to most of your points. My silly comment was only with regard to fact i never trust whatever comes out of a CEO's mouth regarding own product is all

Sidenote: as far as you can trust stats, Gamo is still the biggest selling brand in airguns as they have been for over a decade.

 

[nervoustrig]

So your saying the liner itself never expands when the hot lead hits it?

You’re right, it does. However the pesky law of conservation of energy ensures the liner cannot reach the temperature of the lead. Though even if it could, the differences in their expansion coefficients will always produce a lap that is slightly smaller than the bore.

 

[Airgun Al]

I would determine accuracy, based on results, as opposed to what a bore looks like.
Here is a CZ 457 for example:

 

[Privateer]

You’re right, it does. However the pesky law of conservation of energy ensures the liner cannot reach the temperature of the lead. Though even if it could, the differences in their expansion coefficients will always produce a lap that is slightly smaller than the bore.

OK. My head hurts now.

 

[mubhaur]

I agree to most of your points. My silly comment was only with regard to fact i never trust whatever comes out of a CEO's mouth regarding own product is all

Sidenote: as far as you can trust stats, Gamo is still the biggest selling brand in airguns as they have been for over a decade.

But here we are talking about PCP guns only.

 

[carpmaster]

if what Mr. FX says was true, then there would have been no need to evolve from the three O-rings, to the carbon sleeve, to the tensioner kit complete with front support with screws... or did he put them on the market just to make money?

 

[Airgun Al]

 

[aldea6]

I have 5
FX guns , A Wildcat MK1 with the first concept of "smooth bore" , which means a heavy barrel , 16mm od , totaly smooth until the last 10 inches at the muzzle . Never had POI shifting issues , same with the Boss . Not the same with the Crown or the Dreamline. Maverick doesn't show a lot of POI problems , probably because the barrel assembly is kept in place in a stiffer way.
I've never put a lot of trust in the "liner in a tube in a shroud ", even in the Superlight system. Last week I put a Superlight barrel .30 on my Crown , and I had the feeling that the spacer , mainly the one near the muzzle , had not a tight fit with the shroud , so I modified the system . I machined a steel tube to go around the last inch of the liner with tight fit , and to go into the end cap of the shroud , also with tight fit and epoxied . So now the end of the liner is kept in place with the shroud in a very solid way . The first groups were very good .
The drawback of this setup : air from the liner cannot enter and expand into the shroud , so the gun is louder than before.
This is maybe not THE solution to decrease POI shifting problems , I just wanted to try something .

Oh yes , I get also 4 Kalibrguns ........POI shifting problems ??? What are talking about ?

See drawing below .