Longevity in an Air Rifle

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I cannot thank enough all the friends here for the interest these "special runs" generate, even after 10 years.

Steve did a good job on researching the "provenance" but the INITIAL proposal he found was somewhat impossible to achieve due to a specific sabotage that the parts we sent to M&G (Germany) were subjected to.

Perhaps that portion of history is lost in the mist of the debacle by the original owner of the DWC forum (ZVP), who sold the forum to some one new to fora (Lettercarrier), who then bungled everything when Network54 went bankrupt.

So, to "flesh out" the skeleton history already posted by Steve:

Due to "floor shop leadership" problems with the old school at Rastatt, the WHOLE run of 0.20" cal D54's were completed with 100% DIANA parts. The parts that I sent to Germany, had to be returned (two pistons visibly mangled on purpose) to the USA, and that was the source of the first financial loss (can you imagine 10 years ago sending 40# of steel via AirMail to Germany?

And then back?

Pretty penny, I can tell you. Today's logistical costs are cheap compared to that. But the run had to be completed, or a large deposit was going to be lost. So, nothing else to do but to pay the postage back, take the guns (as built) and then progress from there.

Back then Vortek was making reasonably good stuff, and, to be frank, I didn't know what I know today about springs' design and materials.

So, SOME of the guns were re-built with Vortek springs, but some others were re-built with Maccari springs each gun a custom gun built to the customer's desires. As to what constitutes a "Build" I don't want to enter a semantics argument, bit consider the following: At present, there are liquor brands that own no distillery, electronics goods brands that do not really exist and everything is made in someone else's plants, cars are made from multitude of brand-shared parts (E.G. VW parts in Porsches and Audis), Optics that are made in 5 main plants in China are sold under more than 100 different brands; and rifle & shotguns that are 100% made in Japan or Spain but are still sold under American brand names. In short: in this world the "manufacturer" is more the designer and specifier, than the "maker". WHO is the "builder"? (JIC.- this is a rhetorical question). 

Going back to history: given all the "happenings" during the course of the project, and the time everything took; from the original 7 guns that the company had committed to on its own funds, a further 7 had to be added. The company was in dire conditions, but we decided to keep a firm keel and ride out the storm.

In the last 3 years, a resurgence of interest in these special runs has made it possible to sell some of those "abandoned" goods (under the Mechanic's Lien laws available to shops in most states). Not that the company now needs it, LOL! but it is always good to get some "windfall".

So, what is the difference between the 0.20" cal 54 of today vs the 0.20" cal 54 of 10 years ago? Basically three things:

a) the powerplant is now a Titan XS #4 spring in a custom made bronze/synthetic composite guide. There is a thrust washer at the trigger end and the spring is altered a bit to grip tightly the built-in top hat at the top of the stem of the HMO Piston. The ORing in the piston is now made of a material that was non-existent in the civilian market 10 years ago

b) we can now use a vibrations tuner/moderator (as in Fischer's case) that not only reduces the signature of the rifle, but also acts as a vortex diverter/air-stripper Those that do not need this, a High Performance Muzzleweight (HPM), now a line part in the DIANA 54 "Pro" series, is used to achieve the best possible accuracy from the specific batch of pellets used.

c) we have now a pretty good track record/experience of how to make the ZR Mounts return to absolute zero @ battery position and so, we are no longer limited to "airgun rated" scopes ((as in the Traditions case).

All these three items work in favour of the longevity of the gun, as well as on the performance.

About the scope, do NOTE that Fischer talks about t 3.5-10X scope, WHICH IS NO LONGER IN PRODUCTION and that is radically different from the 3-9X. Why? too good for the money! It was probably made with production over-runs of MUCH higher priced optics and when those components ran out, the model died. A simple case of industrial "binning".

Through all these years my relationship to DIANA has changed, but not my faith in the brand. The "new" management sometimes needs to be reminded of this, LOL! But they are good people and they are convinced that there is a future for airguns.

CoViD-19 has put all of us to the test. The supply chains are completely disrupted world-wide. When you can get the gun you want, then you cannot get the pellets you need . . .

But, some day, this too will end. And hopefully we can get back on track, if we have not adapted to a different track altogether! LOL!

Again, thanks to all for the interest in our efforts.

Apologies in advance if I cannot keep up with all the notes and posts in the fora, but I am REAL BUSY. ;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!











HM


 
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This is the man who made my first D54 .20 and he is supposed to be working on another for me.

He said, "Send no money."

It is his protocol for the rifle to arrive at my doorstep and for me to try out. As soon as that is done I send the paycheck.

No payment plans or stretching of his time and labor. His time means everything to me.

I shot his own .20 D54 to want TWO. For JSB Exact 13 and 15 grain pellets.

There are many air gunsmiths worthy to employ to tune your own rifle without YOU having to have to learn how to do it yourself in a garage with a couple of clamps to unspring the mainspring.

These kinds of atrocities to "learn" before understanding optics and centering optics and getting recoilless are wasted in my own life of observation of many trying to "do it yourself" in a garage with clamps.

But when you get to D54 power you will definitely learn a lesson on power and vibration and the achievement of RECOILLESS springer activity in a power house that will compete with any rimfire with NO noise by the muffler baffle system.

My D54 .20 JSB Heavy breaks red bricks at 25 yards.

But so did the JSB 13 grainers when they went through it.

The machine is deadly and dangerous and you need to make sure your backstop STOPS the .20s whether heavy or light JSB in the D54 obviously modified from the "standard" .22's and .177's.

The .20 in the D54 is the right caliber for THAT machine. It is not popular to most but most don't care about these things in the first place. It is Elite to go into horses that can actually perform as racehorses. They require special attention to details to make them run fast and right.

They cost. But one or two gets rid of all leading up to them as your brace of rifles.

I am willing to give up HW altogether in the face of two D54s in .20 to handle all I'd expect from an air rifle anytime anywhere.


 
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The funny part about all of this nonsense about the Diana 54, Fischer, is you now keep pushing the fact that it's recoilless. 

Now some time back, you were constantly explaining (in jumbled incoherent rambling) about how you have to hold your own recoiling springers offhand and let the rifle recoil and move about on its own. And frequently touted your abilities with regular recoiling spring guns (albeit with zero proof to back up any claims). And also went as far as to put down people that liked to shoot theirs from a bench, to test the accuracy, even though they were happy to share pics of groups when you would not. 

With that said, have you now gone soft?

You've certainly taken a big shortcut to spring gun accuracy by going with a recoilless sled gun. Especially if anyone here believes your outlandish claims of it's accuracy. 
 
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Hector, many thanks for filling in a lot of blanks on the build and history although after reading Mr. Fischer's rambling rant right after your post, it does bring up the question of how you're going to tune that 2nd rifle for him. While I may be very wrong, I would think they'd have all the same exact parts and pieces and the only difference would be that vibrations tuner/moderator you mentioned in part (b) of your post to "tune" the accuracy of the gun to use the lighter weight JSB 13.73's and that his current much ranted about rifle could easily have the same thing done to it to also shoot them. Or could if he knew how to make the adjustments to it to be able to.
 
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If the rifle is all you say it is, it deserves a better scope. Not a fan of the reticle or fixed parallax on airguns. Life is too short for cheap optics.
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Bocephus;

I don't know what is your background in optics. Perhaps you are a professional photographer, or perhaps you have spent years testing gun related optics and comparing them. Perhaps you have a degree in quantum physics and understand the nuances of half-wavelength interferences. Or anti-reflection coatings. Or perhaps you have spent countless hours mastering the metric system to be able to use a second focal plane reticle not only as a rangefinder, but also as trajectory compensating device.

All that is important is that YOU have not seen through THIS scope, and YOU have not compared THIS scope to scopes costing 10-20 times as much.

So, what you voice here is JUST AN OPINION without first hand knowledge. As worthy as any other opinion., but just an opinion.

And one last thing: Inexpensive is not cheap.

;-)

Keep well and shoot straight!









HM
 
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The funny part about all of this nonsense about the Diana 54, Fischer, is you now keep pushing the fact that it's recoilless. 

Now some time back, you were constantly explaining (in jumbled incoherent rambling) about how you have to hold your own recoiling springers offhand and let the rifle recoil and move about on its own. And frequently touted your abilities with regular recoiling spring guns (albeit with zero proof to back up any claims). And also went as far as to put down people that liked to shoot theirs from a bench, to test the accuracy, even though they were happy to share pics of groups when you would not. 

With that said, have you now gone soft?

You've certainly taken a big shortcut to spring gun accuracy by going with a recoilless sled gun. Especially if anyone here believes your outlandish claims of it's accuracy.
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Thumper, excellent observations but you do realize it will just make him ramble again how you need to come to his home, watch him shoot the rifle, let him prove everything to you in person and, like he told me in another thread, once he has you'll end up seeing eye to eye and heart to heart. Not to mention that, while he doesn't believe anything anyone posts here about accuracy claims and such because well, you know all that stuff can be faked, he does fully expect all of us to believe every word he types and take it as absolute gospel...lol.
 
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Mr Fischer, your ramblings rants are old and honestly, I think many are tired of them. We're all very aware by now of what you feel and how you think about that D54 .20 and everything you keep shoving down everyone's throats about what you say it's capable of. I've also lost track of how many threads you've ruined or side tracked mentioning it.

There are many air gunsmiths worthy to employ to tune your own rifle without YOU having to have to learn how to do it yourself in a garage with a couple of clamps to unspring the mainspring.
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Yes there are and anyone who's been around long enough is well aware of this and who they are should one wish to employ their services. There are also countless of us who enjoy doing this ourselves but you constantly find the need to slap at, chide and belittle us because WE choose to.

These kinds of atrocities to "learn" before understanding optics and centering optics and getting recoilless are wasted in my own life of observation of many trying to "do it yourself" in a garage with clamps.
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I would think by now, that with all your claimed years in shooting, both PB's and air rifles, mounting, centering and dialing in a scope would be second nature to you, even should it be a set of open sights since they also need to be to use them, so I'm more than a bit confused by "atrocities to learn".

The machine is deadly and dangerous and you need to make sure your backstop STOPS the .20s whether heavy or light JSB in the D54 obviously modified from the "standard" .22's and .177's.
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EVERY air gun, regardless of caliber and power level, can be deadly and dangerous and even a 300 fps pistol can easily put an eye out should a shooter not be following proper shooting safety. Backstops?? Any backstop, again regardless of caliber or power level, should be able to withstand possible passthroughs. Your rifle in that respect is absolutely no different than any other.

The .20 in the D54 is the right caliber for THAT machine. It is not popular to most but most don't care about these things in the first place. It is Elite to go into horses that can actually perform as racehorses. They require special attention to details to make them run fast and right.
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While .20 may be the "right" caliber for you, it may not be for others but yet another thing you seem to feel the need to shove at people. While there are many fans of .20 and factory rifles are still built in the caliber, it's still a niche caliber nowadays since most will opt for that rifle in .22 if they want more stability and longer distances. Not a clue where the whole race horse thing comes in unless you're comparing your 783 fps shooting D54 to one.

I may or may not speak for many here on the Nation, but it would be much appreciated if you'd stop side tracking threads with mention of your D54. If you have the rifle being asked about, STICK to that rifle. Should be fairly easy for you since, at least for now anyway, you own several of each model of HW made and stop with whatever incessant need it is you have to shove that rifle at everyone. 

I suppose we should just all brace ourselves for the new onslaught when the new D54 .20 you have Hector tuning for you finally arrives.......






 
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Hector,

Yes, I stated an opinion. No need to get your panties in a bunch and get snarky. 
Your blog makes no claims of the glass comparing with $1400 optics like you do now. And of course no one can make a comparison now because they are discontinued.
I can see a picture of the reticle, it sucks. Putting a 45 yard fixed parallax scope on a rifle capable of much greater distance is a mistake, in my opinion. 
 
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This is the man who made my first D54 .20 and he is supposed to be working on another for me.

He said, "Send no money."

It is his protocol for the rifle to arrive at my doorstep and for me to try out. As soon as that is done I send the paycheck.

No payment plans or stretching of his time and labor. His time means everything to me.

I shot his own .20 D54 to want TWO. For JSB Exact 13 and 15 grain pellets.

There are many air gunsmiths worthy to employ to tune your own rifle without YOU having to have to learn how to do it yourself in a garage with a couple of clamps to unspring the mainspring.

These kinds of atrocities to "learn" before understanding optics and centering optics and getting recoilless are wasted in my own life of observation of many trying to "do it yourself" in a garage with clamps.

But when you get to D54 power you will definitely learn a lesson on power and vibration and the achievement of RECOILLESS springer activity in a power house that will compete with any rimfire with NO noise by the muffler baffle system.

My D54 .20 JSB Heavy breaks red bricks at 25 yards.

But so did the JSB 13 grainers when they went through it.

The machine is deadly and dangerous and you need to make sure your backstop STOPS the .20s whether heavy or light JSB in the D54 obviously modified from the "standard" .22's and .177's.

The .20 in the D54 is the right caliber for THAT machine. It is not popular to most but most don't care about these things in the first place. It is Elite to go into horses that can actually perform as racehorses. They require special attention to details to make them run fast and right.

They cost. But one or two gets rid of all leading up to them as your brace of rifles.

I am willing to give up HW altogether in the face of two D54s in .20 to handle all I'd expect from an air rifle anytime anywhere.

Click to expand...

I oftentimes see references to airgun power levels being equated to those generated by rimfire rifles. This is simply not true, especially when discussing spring guns. Yes, many spring guns are capable of astonishing feats, but they are only airguns and thus, in essence, will be self limiting.

Sure, once we get into the larger caliber PCP’s things change, but we’re all done a disservice when neophytes and/or our favorite anti-gun legislators become convinced, through reading inaccurate information on forums such as this, that anyone can buy a spring piston air rifle that will compare favorably with a rimfire rifle. It just isn’t so.
 
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Hector,

Yes, I stated an opinion. No need to get your panties in a bunch and get snarky. 
Your blog makes no claims of the glass comparing with $1400 optics like you do now. And of course no one can make a comparison now because they are discontinued.
I can see a picture of the reticle, it sucks. Putting a 45 yard fixed parallax scope on a rifle capable of much greater distance is a mistake, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Sorry you thought the comments were snarky. There was no intention of that. I genuinely wondered if you had any background in optics.

Through airguns and in the fora, I have met quite a few people with great credentials, from a PhD in condensate matter (Physics of things in solid state) to Professional photographers that have VERY good practical appreciation of good optics, to MSc's in Quantum Physics and PhD's in Chemistry, so I have learned to ask.

My apologies.

Coming back to the scope in question, the reticle is useful to those that know how to use it.

IF you have the time and the inclination, I hope you can dedicate 12 minutes to read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/the-traditions-hunter-series-scopes 

In there I explain HOW I came into contact with this very peculiar scope, WHY it is interesting, and HOW to make it work for YOU.

Of course, that post refers back to another post, where I explain the miliradian system and how to "calibrate" your scope to be useful for YOU (whether YOU are native metric, or imperial/SAE):

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/mil-as-in-milliradian

If you want to delve more into the detail of how a scope is made and how to understand them, you could also read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/how-to-understand-rifle-scopes 

And if you want to read a comparison between three true optical powerhouses, you can also read this:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/k1050i-ft.html 

Of course, I am aware that not everyone needs 50X and 75 mm's objectives, and for some uses and purposes I do advocate low power scopes, in a discussion with a good friend (and semi-professional photographer), he wrote this as a "guest entry" for my blog:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/how-can-less-be-more 

So, one size optics is NOT necessarily the best for everyone. EACH of us has to learn the basics of what we deal with so that WE can decide what works for EACH.

And in the subject of parallax, if you read carefully the note on the Traditions scope, you will see that it was re-parallaxed by yours truly to the CUSTOMER'S SPECS.

Would I re-parallax a $3,000 Kahles (of which I have sold some)? NO! But I will re-parallax a $70 scope to be EXACTLY what the user needed.

IF we ever collaborate on a project, rest assured that I will ask a TON of questions before even suggesting a gun, a scope or a pellet.

Because as a professional airgunsmith (and consultant to some airgun related brands), I have learned that there is no such thing as a perfect all-around gun. Some come close, but no ONE gun actually fits ALL purposes.

And THAT is the beauty of my profession: I get to meet a LOT of people, to try to understand them, to guide them because sometimes what they they THINK they need is really only a WANT, and they really need something else, LOL!

Again, apologies, it was not the intention to sound snarky.

Keep well and shoot straight!









HM
 
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Just to try to bring the thread back on track, let me put forward two interesting points:

1.- I have found that the power limit for DIANA airguns is about 23 ft-lbs. More than that and the rifle's longevity is compromised.

2.- The longevity of scopes is an even greater problem, but we have shown that even non-airgun rated scopes can survive well thousands of rounds when mounted on a DIANA ZR mount.

HTH

Keep well and shoot straight!









HM
 
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L4z4r0s.- 

In the 54/56 that's impossible because the barrel sleeve has "wings" that prevent rotation. There's still a little play that needs to be eliminated if you are after utmost (FT grade) accuracy.

In the 48 and 52 cases it is possible for the sleeve to turn, but there's an easy fix: a 1.5x13 mm's ORing inserted between barrel and muzzle piece then tightening the MP will solve the problem.



HTH, keep well and shoot straight!







HM
 
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I ordered one in Covid 19 period never to receive it due to "delays" by Diana wanting to drill out .22 barrels FIRST while I wanted a .177.

The Pro Air King .177 was fronted by .22 and the .22s in Red Laminate arrived over here split in half at the pistol grip requiring Diana to replace them and when that problem arrived within seconds to Diana the production of the .177 was pushed back further into the unknown future while they tried to satisfy customers and buyers for the .22 Red Laminate and the breaking pistol grip in delivery.

I have no confidence in laminate mostly because the glue itself acts like glass and it is heavier than the wood it is laminating; so it BREAKS like GLASS at a pistol grip in cold weather struck against an obstacle like a tree or package in mailing air or sea or land.

Laminates are not the right stock for any air rifle you WANT forever. Go to Alaska and find out!

Or go to Haiti.

Find out! Climate change is not good on a laminated rifle stock. Beech or Walnut or any other respectable wood with the right density and grain pattern will outlast such with LESS weight!

How many times have you pulled a lawn mower rotary blade powered into working combustion? It's the same movement and force you use to cock a D54 Recoilless. After that, the pellet there is going to go where it is aimed.

Aiming and range needs "hash tags" in vertical for you to plant the pellet at short or long range. Once a specific pellet weight is tuned into the gun with a hashtag scope like the discontinued Traditions 3-10X 44mm you are good with that pellet at whatever ranges you memorized your hashtag (for vertical) position. Or multiple positions to see which vertical delivers the pellet at what range and where in relation they match or cross.

This kind of work to get used to your rifle with optics is critical and requires shooting it hundreds of times instead of tens of times. You'll have to group at 40 yards, and then try at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 yards (the D54 in .20 is capable of this kind of accuracy).

Just put the right scope in place with quality glass that has integrity and then make sure springer recoil is REMOVED from dunging up your chosen scope.



It's as simple as that folks!


 
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I ordered one in Covid 19 period never to receive it due to "delays" by Diana wanting to drill out .22 barrels FIRST while I wanted a .177.

The Pro Air King .177 was fronted by .22 and the .22s in Red Laminate arrived over here split in half at the pistol grip requiring Diana to replace them and when that problem arrived within seconds to Diana the production of the .177 was pushed back further into the unknown future while they tried to satisfy customers and buyers for the .22 Red Laminate and the breaking pistol grip in delivery.

I have no confidence in laminate mostly because the glue itself acts like glass and it is heavier than the wood it is laminating; so it BREAKS like GLASS at a pistol grip in cold weather struck against an obstacle like a tree or package in mailing air or sea or land.

Laminates are not the right stock for any air rifle you WANT forever. Go to Alaska and find out!

Or go to Haiti.

Find out! Climate change is not good on a laminated rifle stock. Beech or Walnut or any other respectable wood with the right density and grain pattern will outlast such with LESS weight!

How many times have you pulled a lawn mower rotary blade powered into working combustion? It's the same movement and force you use to cock a D54 Recoilless. After that, the pellet there is going to go where it is aimed.

Aiming and range needs "hash tags" in vertical for you to plant the pellet at short or long range. Once a specific pellet weight is tuned into the gun with a hashtag scope like the discontinued Traditions 3-10X 44mm you are good with that pellet at whatever ranges you memorized your hashtag (for vertical) position. Or multiple positions to see which vertical delivers the pellet at what range and where in relation they match or cross.

This kind of work to get used to your rifle with optics is critical and requires shooting it hundreds of times instead of tens of times. You'll have to group at 40 yards, and then try at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 yards (the D54 in .20 is capable of this kind of accuracy).

Just put the right scope in place with quality glass that has integrity and then make sure springer recoil is REMOVED from dunging up your chosen scope.



It's as simple as that folks!

Click to expand...

Once again, you are off in left field and completely full of crap.

Laminate gunstocks are stronger, and LESS sensitive to environmental changes than walnut or beech or any other solid wood. The many glue lines make the stock stiffer and more uniform in strength. If those laminate guns broke in shipping, they would have also broken with a solid wood stock. 

As for the scope, there are a thousand other choices that also have "hashes" and other reference marks for different ranges within the reticle. If the Traditions budget scope is working for you, that is great. Personally, I need one that has an adjustable parallax.

Comes in particularly handy when you are shooting 100 yards and trying to be accurate!
 
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