Longevity in an Air Rifle

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I see!!! I was considering the 54 airking but unfortunately it's no longer available around here. I don't really like the new stock they gave it in the "pro version".



Stay safe!!! Best regards!!!
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Sorry that you are in the minority.

The "medium old" (there was an even older version of the 54 stock), stocks were dated, ugly and heavy.
The new stocks are lighter, shoulder better and are more conducive to field accuracy specially offhand.

The new stocks will also form the "brand identity" of DIANA, in pretty much the same way that the Coke bottle is unmistakable. All Premium stocks in the DIANA line will follow this same design (Started back with the 340 Premium).

So, sorry, but your wishes are not compatible with the future.

You should REALLY give it a try. The new "Pro" stock is really more "ergonomic" than the older one and lighter.

WHERE are you located?

Keep well and shoot straight!









HM
 
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I ordered one in Covid 19 period never to receive it due to "delays" by Diana wanting to drill out .22 barrels FIRST while I wanted a .177.

The Pro Air King .177 was fronted by .22 and the .22s in Red Laminate arrived over here split in half at the pistol grip requiring Diana to replace them and when that problem arrived within seconds to Diana the production of the .177 was pushed back further into the unknown future while they tried to satisfy customers and buyers for the .22 Red Laminate and the breaking pistol grip in delivery.

I have no confidence in laminate mostly because the glue itself acts like glass and it is heavier than the wood it is laminating; so it BREAKS like GLASS at a pistol grip in cold weather struck against an obstacle like a tree or package in mailing air or sea or land.

Laminates are not the right stock for any air rifle you WANT forever. Go to Alaska and find out!

Or go to Haiti.

Find out! Climate change is not good on a laminated rifle stock. Beech or Walnut or any other respectable wood with the right density and grain pattern will outlast such with LESS weight!

How many times have you pulled a lawn mower rotary blade powered into working combustion? It's the same movement and force you use to cock a D54 Recoilless. After that, the pellet there is going to go where it is aimed.

Aiming and range needs "hash tags" in vertical for you to plant the pellet at short or long range. Once a specific pellet weight is tuned into the gun with a hashtag scope like the discontinued Traditions 3-10X 44mm you are good with that pellet at whatever ranges you memorized your hashtag (for vertical) position. Or multiple positions to see which vertical delivers the pellet at what range and where in relation they match or cross.

This kind of work to get used to your rifle with optics is critical and requires shooting it hundreds of times instead of tens of times. You'll have to group at 40 yards, and then try at 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, 100 yards (the D54 in .20 is capable of this kind of accuracy).

Just put the right scope in place with quality glass that has integrity and then make sure springer recoil is REMOVED from dunging up your chosen scope.



It's as simple as that folks!

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Once again, you are off in left field and completely full of crap.

Laminate gunstocks are stronger, and LESS sensitive to environmental changes than walnut or beech or any other solid wood. The many glue lines make the stock stiffer and more uniform in strength. If those laminate guns broke in shipping, they would have also broken with a solid wood stock. 

As for the scope, there are a thousand other choices that also have "hashes" and other reference marks for different ranges within the reticle. If the Traditions budget scope is working for you, that is great. Personally, I need one that has an adjustable parallax.

Comes in particularly handy when you are shooting 100 yards and trying to be accurate!
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Thumper, spot on as usual. John, I got myself a Laminate stock, custom made for an HW95 and Air Mailed all the way from the Ukraine no less and it got here with no issues whatsoever. Blowing smoke there.

Scopes? All well and good to brag about it and how good it works for YOU, but totally useless to any other air gunner since as Hector and you have already said, it's been discontinued and none of them can ever get one to buy and try. Again, wasted typing and more smoke.

To add to what Thumper said, you do realize you're in an air gun forum with a very large number of competitive shooters in any number of disciplines, yes?? I'll likely miss a few but WFTF, Field Target which has more than a few classes, Extreme Bench Rest among others. You can bet your entire rifle collection they're all very well versed in every last thing to do with scopes. What works, what doesn't, dial in, ranging, the absolute works and even Hector wrote a blog post about the Sightron scope he always wanted and finally got them to build one the way he really wanted a competition scope. I own at least a dozen myself with "hashtags" although most tend to call them christmas tree reticles. Not hard to use Chairgun or Strelok Pro to make a simple range card to note holdovers for any given range and most do since most have multiple guns. As amazing a shooter as you say you are, maybe you should find some of those competitions around you, load up the 2020 Mustang and go shoot against a few of them and maybe you can show them how a true shooter does things.

More smoke and more of your usual incessant, rambling babbling.
 
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I see!!! I was considering the 54 airking but unfortunately it's no longer available around here. I don't really like the new stock they gave it in the "pro version".



Stay safe!!! Best regards!!!
Click to expand...



Sorry that you are in the minority.

The "medium old" (there was an even older version of the 54 stock), stocks were dated, ugly and heavy.
The new stocks are lighter, shoulder better and are more conducive to field accuracy specially offhand.

The new stocks will also form the "brand identity" of DIANA, in pretty much the same way that the Coke bottle is unmistakable. All Premium stocks in the DIANA line will follow this same design (Started back with the 340 Premium).

So, sorry, but your wishes are not compatible with the future.

You should REALLY give it a try. The new "Pro" stock is really more "ergonomic" than the older one and lighter.

WHERE are you located?

Keep well and shoot straight!









HM
Click to expand...

Aright then!! Interesting!!! I will give it a try if I get the chance to since the new one is not available around here at the moment. I'm in Greece.

Best regards.
 
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Laminate gunstocks are stronger, and LESS sensitive to environmental changes than walnut or beech or any other solid wood. The many glue lines make the stock stiffer and more uniform in strength. If those laminate guns broke in shipping, they would have also broken with a solid wood stock.
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Thumper, while you are right about the material being less humidity sensitive, the sad realities are that: 1) the extremely thin BIRCH laminations common in most "laminated stock material" is extremely fibrous and has very little "shear strength", even with the copious amounts of resin involved. And 2) current designers "push the envelope" a bit much.

This is something we discussed internally in DIANA after a shipment of FOUR rifles, two with laminate stocks and two with beech stocks arrived into the US.
The laminated stocks sheared at the wrists, but the beech stocked ones didn't. This was more than a year ago.

Designer defended the fact that these were not military rifles for parade/drills, but the truth is that expecting a rifle to NEVER fall on its butt is a bit of wishful thinking.

So, we redesigned a bit the wrists and the stocks are now much more resistant without loosing any ergonomic fit.

Is this an aspect exclusive to DIANA and this designer? Nope! I have seen stocks from AA/'s, HW, and FWB break at the wrist. US custom stock makers specifically warn the users against dropping the rifle, or even the stock alone, on the butt. Every year at the World's, out of 300 something competitors, someone arrives with a broken stock. Airline travel with assembled guns is a bit of a folly. I have disassembled my guns for EVERY trip and even when the case (metal) has become completely unusable after a big fall, the contents were protected.

So, yes, while the MATERIAL may be stronger in a sense, the modern "vertical/pistol grip" design is not as strong as old sporter/military stocks designs.

Is it easier to shoot well with a pronounced, curvaceous, target style vertical "pistol grip"? partly, yes, but it is not absolutely necessary, specially in spring piston air rifles, where MOST of the times they benefit from a loose "trigger hand hold", even if the forearm can be held rather firmly.

There are solutions and methods to reinforce the wrists, my preferred method is a solid oak 5/8" dowel inserted into a blind hole that reaches 3/4 of the way up and then glued. The stock may break at other points, but it will not break at the wrist and unless you look at the bottom of the pistol grip (and there is no pistol grip cap), you cannot see the dowel.

So, for the sake of the main argument in this thread: If you want a "field worthy wooden stocked" spring-piston rifle, you are better off choosing a solid wood stock of traditional design; coat it in "Wipe On Poly" and then seal with a good SPAR Urethane outside AND inside. Or, even better, go to a fully synthetic stocked rifle. They may not be as pretty, but they will withstand rougher usage and therefore add longevity to your rig.

Keep well and shoot straight!











HM
 
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Aright then!! Interesting!!! I will give it a try if I get the chance to since the new one is not available around here at the moment. I'm in Greece.

Best regards.
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L4z4r0s.-

IF you can get an older D54 I can send you a "Pro" stock (repaired, not new), for you to try.

IF you like it, you keep it and pay for it, if not, you return it.Stocks are fully interchangeable, so there is no problem in getting even a T01 D54, or a T05 and jsut swapping the stock.

There are T01 D54's out there (over 40 years old) , that are still shooting well. So longevity of the platform is not an issue, but a good "re-vamp" of an old friend is always a good thing.

Think it over and let me know.









HM
 
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Aright then!! Interesting!!! I will give it a try if I get the chance to since the new one is not available around here at the moment. I'm in Greece.

Best regards.
Click to expand...

L4z4r0s.-

IF you can get an older D54 I can send you a "Pro" stock (repaired, not new), for you to try.

IF you like it, you keep it and pay for it, if not, you return it.Stocks are fully interchangeable, so there is no problem in getting even a T01 D54, or a T05 and jsut swapping the stock.

There are T01 D54's out there (over 40 years old) , that are still shooting well. So longevity of the platform is not an issue, but a good "re-vamp" of an old friend is always a good thing.

Think it over and let me know.









HM
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I'm still in the searching phase for a new rifle. For now i will wait, since the pro version will probably arrive soon at a local distributor. Will also check some other options i have in mind.



Thanks a lot!!!



Best regards.
 
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Fischer I have pm you, ?
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Yes.

I'm still here reading what is posted after I said "it's as easy as that folks" and someone comes back saying I'm full of it.

As far as I'm concerned you are full of it and know not enough to know the right questions about sending a pellet downrange.

Now my next question is why you are here with accusations you yourself cannot legitimate in the face of air gun mechanics?

I'd ask for YOUR credentials here online right now in front of all--every accuser here against me saying the D54 .20 Recoilless is not at least competitive. And if it is NOT your rifle that you own and shot for yourself you are too weak to hold one offhand and that is your excuse.

Kindly and simply put without regard to any more retorts on what I shared on this net about D45 .20 customized. 

Unless you have owned one you have no idea!


 
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Fischer I have pm you, ?
Click to expand...


Yes.

I'm still here reading what is posted after I said "it's as easy as that folks" and someone comes back saying I'm full of it.

As far as I'm concerned you are full of it and know not enough to know the right questions about sending a pellet downrange.

Now my next question is why you are here with accusations you yourself cannot legitimate in the face of air gun mechanics?

I'd ask for YOUR credentials here online right now in front of all--every accuser here against me saying the D54 .20 Recoilless is not at least competitive. And if it is NOT your rifle that you own and shot for yourself you are too weak to hold one offhand and that is your excuse.

Kindly and simply put without regard to any more retorts on what I shared on this net about D45 .20 customized. 

Unless you have owned one you have no idea!

Click to expand...

One of your problems once again is waltzing into a forum with 100,000+ members, 99% of which are very well experienced with how to send a pellet downrange. Quite a few of those are National Class Champion/competitive shooters, some are World Class Champion shooters/competitors, your friend Hector among them and shooting anything from 10m to Extreme Bench Rest at 100's of yards, with anything from break barrel/sidelever/underlever air rifles to very high end, very expensive rifles built expressly for competitive use.

Pretty sure they all know as much and in most cases, more than you do about the mechanics of air gun shooting and everything to do with it. Mechanics of which also include being able to rebuild/repair the rifles they shoot should they need to which, from my own reading, they sometimes have to in the middle of competitions. Extremely egotistical of you to think you're the only one who knows the proper mechanics of shooting, let alone coming in here and trying to tell people how.

We all brag now and then about a particular rifle we own, how well it shoots, things we've done with them and we bring them up when another member is asking about that particular rifle. In your case, you tend to derail threads that have absolutely nothing to do with a D54 in any caliber with your non stop rambling, sometimes incoherent litany about that one gun: the perfection, the laser like accuracy, all the rest of the things it's capable of. I don't recall anyone ever saying your rifle isn't or couldn't be competitive, besides which, anyone who knows Hector and the rifle he competes with already know how competitive one can be. They know the rifle is capable, they called you out as the shooter to come prove it and shoot a competitive event or 2 and show off the skills you brag so heavily about.

Kindly and simply put, you've WAY overshared about that customized D54 .20.




 
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Fischer I have pm you, ?
Click to expand...


Yes.

I'm still here reading what is posted after I said "it's as easy as that folks" and someone comes back saying I'm full of it.

As far as I'm concerned you are full of it and know not enough to know the right questions about sending a pellet downrange.

Now my next question is why you are here with accusations you yourself cannot legitimate in the face of air gun mechanics?

I'd ask for YOUR credentials here online right now in front of all--every accuser here against me saying the D54 .20 Recoilless is not at least competitive. And if it is NOT your rifle that you own and shot for yourself you are too weak to hold one offhand and that is your excuse.

Kindly and simply put without regard to any more retorts on what I shared on this net about D45 .20 customized. 

Unless you have owned one you have no idea!

Click to expand...

Nobody said that your rifle wasn't competitive. 

They simply called you out on your exaggerations. And you didn't like it. 

Having owned and shot and repaired all manner of spring guns for many years now, I can say what I know to be true and stand behind it. 

You are on a forum filled with many many experienced people. You won't be blowing your smoke up their rear ends, they know better because they have been there and done it. 

If you want to beat your chest and blow smoke, you will be much better served doing it somewhere other than here. It didn't work when you tried it on the GTA and ended up banned, and it won't work here. 

You've only got one more US based forum left to wear out your welcome on. 

Lighten up, be honest, and let's have fun talking about airguns again. 
 
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Integrity? What exactly do you mean here?
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I admit to being curious myself what he means by integrity of the scope. He also makes fairly regular mention of the rifle being "ready to kill" at 100 yards. I freely admit to being a relative newbie to both Strelok and Chairgun but I did wing it a bit and used the calculator at Brad's site: http://www.airguns.net/trajectory.php to try and come up with some kind of ballpark numbers and got what you see in the chart although I only covered 75-100 yards so it would fit better here:

Trajectory chart 1.1628606948.jpg


Ok, I already know 6.5 fpe will easily kill a squirrel, rabbit or a few other things with a solid head shot. My Beeman R7 .20 can out to 30 yards. But now you're talking about making that shot from 100-105 yards with something like a 43 inch drop according to that chart and meanwhile hoping your intended critter stays absolutely still all the time your pellet is in the air trying to get there while fighting the drop and drift depending on wind conditions. If clicking, how many clicks is that? If holdover, how many, as he terms them "hashtags", would that be? Last thought would be has he actually done this or just thinks he could?

Maybe someone way better than I am could fire up their Strelok or Chairgun???

Edit: I came back to add to this because I had one more thought and to me a very major one after I posted. While I've seen any number of air gunners across the forums say they've made shots out to 60 or even 70 yards, I've never seen one until you saying 100. Shoot at targets at that range yes, but if you're trying to kill things at 100 yards, pick a rifle more suited to the task. A spring piston air gun is not a suitable rifle for 100 yard hunting of small game. If your shot is even a little off, you now have a wounded, suffering animal wandering around the woods.
 
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Maybe someone way better than I am could fire up their Strelok or Chairgun???
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By no means I consider myself better than anyone. You used a good approach to getting some information. Sadly, the calculator you use is somewhat dated. And Strelok is woefully inadequate for pellet use. You CAN get great results, but it needs a ton of fiddling.

Chairgun is a bit better, but it still needs a lot of fiddling for it to "get it right". Regardless, since it is an "accepted standard", I used it to generate the trajectory for MY 0.20" cal D54 (the prototype for the 30 made later and therefore with some minor differences). I used a REAL MEASURED BC from PP-Calc, and the input data corresponds to my gun, so we'll address the differences later, for now, study this trajectory:

Traj1.1628609858.jpg
 

In case the values in the table are not too "visible" they are as follows:

Traj1Table.1628612238.jpg
 

Now, SOME of you may be wondering how the reticle in this scope plays into this, and the solution is relatively simple.

You have to remember that this inexpensive scope is an SFP scope, which therefore means that the 2 mrads of angular spacing between the cross of the hairs when zeroed at 34 yards and the thick to thin transition at the change of thickness in the bottom when the scope is set to about 9,5X, can easily attain 5.4 mrads with the scope at 3.5, so getting the 5.25 mrads is fairly easy.

It is also possible to set up a mrad verification target and CALIBRATE the magnification of the scope to where YOU need to get the pellet to. Just follow the instructions here:

https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/mil-as-in-milliradian 

Will you be able to detect a rabbit at 100 yards at 3.5X? And then take a killing shot? Dunno, that is up to each shooter. I am sure some would and some cannot, but that's the thing, we are all different.

Would there be better scopes to hunt rabbits at 100 yards? SURE! but the cheapest ones I can think of that I would recommend to anyone start at around $500 and from there there are more than a few that span all the possible budgets all the way to $4,000.

Would I honestly recommend, as a professional gunsmith, someone go hunting rabbits at 100 yards with this scope? No. Because I deal with the "general public" and have to keep to more "traditional forms". But I do know personally a couple of hunters who would be perfectly capable.

Do note that the pellet gets to the 100 yards marker with a tad less than 9½ ft-lbs so, plenty of energy to kill a rabbit.

As for the differences between my gun and the general run of 30, basically it is the powerplant (piston, spring and guide), and that the pellet used here is the JSB Exact at 13.7 grs, not the heavy one.

Again, we are all different and we all need to respect what others prefer.

Hope this answers some of your questions.

Keep well and shoot straight!











HM








 
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