Look-alike firearms Rule Changes

Jump to latest Follow Reply
I grew up in a small blue collar southern town where guns and hunting were a part of everyday life. But I'm 73, so that was long ago. At that time, and in that place, most kids were part of a functional family, and were taught not to be stupid, mean, or act disrespectful. That includes respect for the danger, as well as the satisfaction available in the sports involving guns. We learned how and when to handle guns. We played with toy guns that looked real, and no one gave it a second thought. Unfortunately, with the deterioration of the family unit, firearms have since evolved to a dark side of our society, are feared rather than respected, and most teaching, if any, is to simply avoid them. I don't think we should ignore the growing instances where tragedy results from someone brandishing a real looking toy gun. These are toys that are challenging to recognize as a toy, even by someone knowledgeable of guns, and with the time for a good look. In a stressful situation, often in poor light, recognizing them as toys is impossible. Whether cop or armed citizen, if you have reason to believe your life is threatened, you can't inspect the weapon, and tragedy results. Sadly, unlike my peer group, I believe toy guns that look real should not be tolerated today.
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 7Green, drpietrzak and Motorhead
Upvote 0
As written it doesn't apply to air guns paintball guns airsoft guns... Section (b) makes that abundantly clear. I do not understand what section (a) says.

I do view this to be legislation created by the executive branch. I'm pretty sure that's not constitutional.

It's not the government's job to decide what color toilet paper is... More regulation is not the solution to this problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: patrikky and AirGunShooter
Upvote 0
A couple other things to note from my view
.
1. The pellet and BB guns I had access to as a kid (late 60's) and the ones kids have access to today are not the same. Even my TX200 at 15 to 16 fpe is way more than was what I had to work with then. Accuracy of Red Ryder compared to me TX200 - Huh. Quality air guns were just not part of the rural Minnesota lifestyle/culture when I was a kid. There were no air soft guns out there for me then either. No computers, internet, cell phones, etc. Electronic ignitions systems in cars was just beginning to start out. Fuel injection was for racing cars and foreign automobiles as well for that matter. Carburetors, points based ignition systems, etc were where it was at at that time. Red Ryder, Crosman multi-pumps then .22lr were the transition in big bore.

2. Access to these tools was gated through my parents, or others parents i n my circles. I could not walk into a store and get one without my parents in general. Clerks would have requested parents attend, even if state and federal law did not, back then. There was no Amazon order coming to the door like today. Mail order was a production event.

3. In the last month there have been 2-3 events in a local park in my ruralish central state town of about 17K where handguns were discarded. These were not drug or crime related events it seems, but rather kids showing off their cool "toys." If I am a policeman, or bystander, any gun-like object gets close scrutiny. It is a health and safety issue. I start from the basis of it being real unless I can ascertain otherwise. Even if it is "just" an air gun, which are pretty serious tools today (adult air guns), I would mount a serious defense. These will do more than put out my eye. As a kids most folks started with the premise it was a toy unless ascertained otherwise. My educating my people does not cover these folks it seems.

I understand the "Ahhhh! he has a gun!!!!" folks. As Treefrog noted this is to some extent the effect of too little self-regulation, education and training.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Treefrog
Upvote 0
Treefrog said:
Regulations come from the government when we fail to regulate ourselves. People getting themselves shot by displaying faux arms is normal when you consider where they are on the bell curve. FAFO is a real thing.

BOHICA,

J~
Click to expand...
I get the logic, but I’m one that does not believe in benevolent government or gov staying benevolent in the long term. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and slippery slopes quickly turn into landslides.

Legislation, especially without consent or oversight of the governed (ex. Agency Regulations) seldom fix even 1/3 of a problem, while making life for responsible folks all the more complicated. Education and moral examples are the better long term alternatives.

-Marty
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farmplinker2, OldSpook and Treefrog
Upvote 0
MartyMcFly said:
I get the logic, but I’m one that does not believe in benevolent government or gov staying benevolent in the long term. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and slippery slopes quickly turn into landslides.

Legislation, especially without consent or oversight of the governed (ex. Agency Regulations) seldom fix even 1/3 of a problem, while making life for responsible folks all the more complicated. Education and moral examples are the better long term alternatives.

-Marty
Click to expand...

As you say, I understand your logic and largely agree. But, I also have to be concerned about the 1% to 5% who need regulation. They often make things difficult for people like us.
 
Upvote 0
drpietrzak said:
As you say, I understand your logic and largely agree. But, I also have to be concerned about the 1% to 5% who need regulation. They often make things difficult for people like us.
Click to expand...
I respect your point of view regarding the 1-5% and I wish that regulation could fix that small malevolent/ignorant part of society. And I know that I am largely preaching to the choir but the burden of rectifying the transgressions of the few should not fall on the majority or even plurality.

That said, I am by no means for anarchy. Civil society needs rules and codes of conduct. The difficulty comes in balancing individual freedoms without tipping too much into authoritarian tendencies. It is my sincere belief that achieving a completely safe society is neither achievable nor desirable because to do so you either need to eliminate free will or have complete control over people’s action - this eventually leads to a dystopia and the journey into it and out of it is not pleasant.

I will shut up now, as the conversation might be getting too serious for a forum that should be about discussing our love of airguns.

Happy Friday everyone 😃

-Marty
 
  • Like
Reactions: Farmplinker2, jetpopt and drpietrzak
Upvote 0
MartyMcFly said:
I respect your point of view regarding the 1-5% and I wish that regulation could fix that small malevolent/ignorant part of society. And I know that I am largely preaching to the choir but the burden of rectifying the transgressions of the few should not fall on the majority or even plurality.

That said, I am by no means for anarchy. Civil society needs rules and codes of conduct. The difficulty comes in balancing individual freedoms without tipping too much into authoritarian tendencies. It is my sincere belief that achieving a completely safe society is neither achievable nor desirable because to do so you either need to eliminate free will or have complete control over people’s action - this eventually leads to a dystopia and the journey into it and out of it is not pleasant.

I will shut up now, as the conversation might be getting too serious for a forum that should be about discussing our love of airguns.

Happy Friday everyone 😃

-Marty
Click to expand...
Amen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MartyMcFly
Upvote 0
Motorhead said:
Don't hate me .... Personally feel there should NOT be ANY "Toy" guns that are NOT REAL FIREARMS taking on the same looks.
It's stupid, unreasonable & Irresponsible to make toys that looks like tools of WAR :cautious:
Click to expand...
There are are some issues with this premise. However, I do respect your opinion.

Believe it or not, real guns have been made to look like toy guns by criminals too. It isn't hard to paint the tip of a real gun orange or paint the whole gun to look similar to a nerf gun. Further, some guns and even knives have been made to resemble non weapon objects. I'll let you google search that.

Another aspect is the guns can be used for training, both by govt. agencies and civilians, and for things like self defence and tactics. It is hard to train for life threatening scenarios without actually creating scenarios that trigger your internal fight or flight response. Sim rounds have been used for this, but they are not cost effective.

Perhaps a better way to go about this issue is not taking freedoms away, but making it to where they can not be used on public property within a cities' boundaries. This can be accomplished through city municipal codes or without some form of sanctioned event/permit issued by the city. Areas like national forest, blm, etc..., could simply have rules for posting the event with some form of signage or notification. Private property should for the most part be allowed to do what they wish as long as they are not effecting the surrounding properties, within a cities boundaries and without a certain amount of acreage, or causing harm to people or property.

IMO; the public perception of realistic looking guns seems to be the largest issue at hand.
 
Upvote 0
One thing I failed or forgot to mention is the lack of education we provide our youth. Others in this thread have mentioned it and even glossed over the lack of family values.

I for one would be a big proponent of our youth learning the basics about firearms and firearm safety. Even if their parents were against it. Afterall, who knows when your kid may go over to one of their friends homes' and be exposed to firearms. This can occur both willingly, unwillingly, or out of curiousity because a gun was left out.

To all the nay sayers, we can only control ourselves and can not control everyone, including your own kid some times. Your little angel does a lot behind our back that we don't realize is even happening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: drpietrzak
Upvote 0
Gangster wraps orange tape conspicuously around muzzle of Glock. "Here Billyboy, you want in da gang? Go shoot dat cop over there.". Cop hesitates as any good man would.

The industry has now spent millions of dollars making hundreds of thousands of toy pistols with orange muzzles. The government has spent millions of tax dollars trying to enforce a ridiculous law.

And in one fell swoop all of that effort and all of that money has been pissed into the toilet and the next kid with an orange muzzle that walks up and points it at a cop eats a bullet. Cop goes to prison.

It's a stupid idea. It's a knee jerk, feel good, reaction. It causes more problems than it solves. Out in West Texas they say, "Boy that idea is about as useless as tits on a boar hog".

They are correct.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: iAMzehTOASTY1 and Moog
Upvote 0
What defines these things? The question is who's path does one follow? There we see most come to disagree. What is "knee jerk" and what is reasonable? There are no objective markers for those in that journey. This trail leads us to enter the land of opinion. This land is nearly always the land where the tantrums, name calling and absolutism take over. The land where personal opinion has us seeing an imaginary line in the sand where we believe they have the "right" to tell rather than compromise.
 
Upvote 0
7Green said:
One thing I failed or forgot to mention is the lack of education we provide our youth. Others in this thread have mentioned it and even glossed over the lack of family values.

I for one would be a big proponent of our youth learning the basics about firearms and firearm safety. Even if their parents were against it. Afterall, who knows when your kid may go over to one of their friends homes' and be exposed to firearms. This can occur both willingly, unwillingly, or out of curiousity because a gun was left out.

To all the nay sayers, we can only control ourselves and can not control everyone, including your own kid some times. Your little angel does a lot behind our back that we don't realize is even happening.
Click to expand...
To your note of teaching kids, I did that VERY early with my grandson and granddaughter, take away the mystery, I let him handle my Xd9, I taught him to field strip it and reassemble it, showed him the difference between dummy rounds and real ones, let him rack and 'shoot' the dummies. Mystery of the firearm gone, bought a Xd airsoft, so shoot at cans in the back yard, then to the range with a .22 with both of them, even built both of them AR's. Pounded into them that if they were at a friends house and they brought out a real gun to get the heck out NOW.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: aklonewolf, 7Green and drpietrzak
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu