HW/Weihrauch Look what UPS just dropped off. A 77 Mk1.
- Thread starter Mycapt65
- Start date
I'm really ok with 177 for this platform. It won't have enough power to drive 20 or 22 as flat as I like without going to light weight pellets. I'd prefer a 20 cal if it were the larger 26mm guns. I'm not even sure they made a Mark 1 in 20 or 22. Someone here will know.
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I was just wondering why you wouldn't have been as aggressive bidding had you known it was a 25mm.The Mark 1 to the best of my knowledge is the earliest 77 version made. It uses a 25mm piston and sliding compression tube. The advantage of that is the reduced piston weight reduces recoil energy. I don't have to explain how that benefits accuracy to you.
A smaller diameter pistion has less surface area so it's less prone to piston bounce under the same back pressure. Similar to hydraulic theory wher a smaller pistion moves further but requires less pressure to move than a larger piston under the same load.
Also a smaller piston seal has less surface area. Less surface are reduces thermal expansion issues because the expansion disparity between the steel tube and piston seal is less. This is why why my 25mm Hw30s suffer less TE issues than my 26mm 50, 95 & 97. Those in turn suffer less TE issues than my R1.
Incidentlly AA TXs run 25mm pistons with hollow seals that experience less TE than the same size Weihrauch full cap style piston seals. For all the reasons above, 97s that are tuned for FT will sometimes run 25mm pistons when available. More serious FT 97s look nothing like the original inside.
The outer receiver on the Mark 1 is the same as the later 77/97 series. All you need to convert a later gun to 25mm is the piston and sliding comp tube. Another perk of that is all the guns use the same stock inletting, so stocks are interchangeable. For instance I can put my Goudy 77 stock on my late model Laminate 97 and vice versa.
It's just been brought to my attention that the Mark 1 has a different non removable front sight. The cocking arm release is simpler with no button. I'm not used to that. I keep pressing a button that isn't there.
The loading port is a little smaller on the Mark 1 as well. When these guns first came out they were very popular FT rifles. Several custom shops would mill these open for easier loading during competition. Shortening the barrels to reduce dwell time and muzzle flip was another popular mod. Weihrauch incorporated threes popular mods in the next generation of underlevers with the introduction of the 77K and 97K.
That's all the differences I know of. Oh wait one more the Mark 1 has no ABT so it can be decocked. I guess it predates our ridiculous litigious society.
Be well
Ron
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You understood that wrong. Probably my fault.
What I was trying to say is I probably wouldn't have bid on it knowing it was a Mark 1 because I'd assume it'd sell for much more than I could afford to bid. Even not knowing it was a Mark 1 I bid my max budget on it just hoping I might win it. I was extremely fortunate that my bid was enough. I would expect a similar condition later Beeman Mark 2 HW77 and Beeman BR scope package would sell for substantially more than I paid for this even rarer Mark 1.
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I prefer the ball detent. One less fiddly thing to do loading an underlever. The slide latch was added to allow sling use and I don't want slings on my airguns anyway.
.177 is the caliber you want for a Mk1. They were available in .22 as well from the start. Made about 12 ft lb but many kits available make much more. Venom got 18 ft lb out of them.
I keep wanting to saw the sight off mine. 77K. I have 3 spare Mk1 latch/sight assemblies I scored on eBay years ago.
A lot of eBay auction sales are a little soft this past year. Glad you got it.
.177 is the caliber you want for a Mk1. They were available in .22 as well from the start. Made about 12 ft lb but many kits available make much more. Venom got 18 ft lb out of them.
I keep wanting to saw the sight off mine. 77K. I have 3 spare Mk1 latch/sight assemblies I scored on eBay years ago.
A lot of eBay auction sales are a little soft this past year. Glad you got it.
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Glad you like your new beautiful gun! HW77's can be mildly power tuned to shoot close to optimal velocity in .20 cal, even with the 25mm chamber. Still, I'd take .22 cal over a smallbore. .177 cals are so loud to my ears that they are borderline useless. The same gun in a bigger cal is a completely different experience, has been my consistent experience.
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Thanks. You're correct the bigger the caliber the quieter and better mannered the same piston gun is. Optimal velocity is relative to personal preference. You and I value different qualities. None of them right or wrong. Just what we like.
Be well
Ron
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Today I cleaned up, mounted the scope to the correct clock position and set the eye relief. Interestingly the scope has numbered turrets, a resetable zero and zero stop system. All admirable features by today's standards much less something forty years old.
I'm anxiously waiting for the outside temps to reach the 30s so I zero and chronograph this beast. By beast I mean physical size and weight. This thing is a tank.
I'm anxiously waiting for the outside temps to reach the 30s so I zero and chronograph this beast. By beast I mean physical size and weight. This thing is a tank.
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Scope might have been turned to get more windage adjustment as some scopes come with more elevation adjustment than windage.
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I weighed this thing and suprisenlly it's not heavier than my 97 or even my R1. Those are wearing 40mm Airmaxs so I imagine the 77 with a similar Airmax would weigh at least as much as the 97.
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Several British veteran springer experts have reported getting 24 to 25 joules (17.6 to 18.4 fpe) out of the early 25mm HW77's in .22 cal. That would work out to 756 fps, shooting FTT 14.66's. Pretty fast, no?
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Yes that is. How they got that much power out of 25mm without stroking it or dieseling, I'll never know. I believe the 77 is an 81mm stroke. That's 4mm shorter than an Hw95. I've tuned a few 22 HW95s and 97s and never scared 18 fpe. I'm not even sure I've touched much past 17. Most land in the 16s with standard weight lead pellets. And shoot nicely there I might add.
Duke you have a knack for finding these wild exceptions from English pro tuners. Some of which are very hard to believe. I know there are some very sharp tuners there but I think there's some details about what goes into these gun is left out. Let's keep this at a level you and I as hobbiest can attain.
Back to the gun, I'm not sure what kind of power penalty to expect from a 25 vs a 26 mm piston. I have to assume the reduction in swept volume will cause some sort of penalty. Logic dictates if I'm only making 17 in a 26mm I'm not getting that out of a 25mm gun. In 20 it will be less than that and in 177 even less than 20.
I'm not hunting with this thing so I'm not looking for a power monster and I'm not bothered by the sound of any 177 springer. If I'm looking for anything out of this gun its finesse and accuracy. 177 will be fine for my purposes. You can do what ever you like with your rifles.
Truthfully I don't enjoy heavy shooting >10lb rifles like you do. My 97 and R1 are respectively my least and second least used rifles. The 97 is the least because it's an underlever. Its stupid but I've always wanted an old 77 because of styling. Chances are this 77 will proudly grace my wall rack most of it future life. That said, it will be gone through so it shoots exceptionly smooth, and hopefully very accurate for the times I will shoot it.
Be well
Ron
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With a new girlfriend that elegant, who cares if someone has been there before you? What a catch! Enjoy Ron. Be Well Brothers, Bandito.
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