Looking for inexpensive scopes and range finders

[stovepipe]

I'm hunting tree squirrels 99% of the time. Farthest shot would probably be 60 yards. Budget would be around $300 range. I was looking at Hawke's website and was thinking of this one or something similar. But before buying I'd guess it'll be a smart idea to understand MOA vs MIL.

Vantage SF 3-12x44 Half Mil Dot

An extensive range of scopes to suit all calibres and disciplines. All Vantage riflescopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations. Capped Low-Profile Turrets. 1 Inch Mono-Tube Chassis. Side Focus. 11 Layer Fully Multi-Coated Lenses. High Torque Zoom Ring. Fast Focus Eyebell

us.hawkeoptics.com

The least expensive FFP scope that Athlon makes is the Athlon Talos BTR Gen2 4-14x44. Different reticles are available in milrad and moa. Prices are about $280 - $320.

I'm not suggesting that you only look at Athlon. Think of other companies that make reliable scopes and look at their least expensive FFP scopes and the reticles and other features, then look at what they are selling for at street prices (not retail).

stovepipe

 

[stovepipe]

Regarding milrad and moa angular measurements, I don't have a preference. I can use either unit of measure. When I'm looking at a scope that I might want to buy, I look at the reticle and imagine myself trying to quickly find and then hold an angle on target. If the layout of the reticle makes that difficult for me, then I'm going to hate that scope every time I use it and regret buying it. I don't care if it's milrads or moa.

stovepipe

 

[zerochance]

If getting a First Focal Plane scope (which I recommend) it does not really matter whether you use MIL or MOA. The reason being, both scope's turrets will (should) click and adjust per the reticle markings. Basically, what you see in the scope's hash marks from the center dot to where the impact is will be how much turret clicking needs to take place.

Read through this thread and see if this scope has all the specs on your list. These are such a good little scope I've bought two since making the thread on the experiment. What is about the coolest thing I found is, though its FFP and with a parallax adjustment, parallax can be set to around 40 yards and is virtually parallax free and the image clear at all but the closest yardages.

Discovery HD 2-12X24 SFIR FFP. A little experiment.

I bought a new offering from the Discovery factory this week to do a little experiment with. And when I say little, I mean it is a little scope at 81/2" long. Discovery HD 2-12X24 SFIR FFP is a gem of a scope for the price. In the daylight it compared on par with it's next biggest brother...

www.airgunnation.com

Thank you. Looks like I have some reading to do!

 

[zerochance]

Regarding milrad and moa angular measurements, I don't have a preference. I can use either unit of measure. When I'm looking at a scope that I might want to buy, I look at the reticle and imagine myself trying to quickly find and then hold an angle on target. If the layout of the reticle makes that difficult for me, then I'm going to hate that scope every time I use it and regret buying it. I don't care if it's milrads or moa.

stovepipe

I'm also trying to better understand all of this. Watching this video helps tremendously but I'm still not getting it 100%. I'll have to watch it a few times.

 

[stovepipe]

Regarding milrad and moa angular measurements, I don't have a preference. I can use either unit of measure. When I'm looking at a scope that I might want to buy, I look at the reticle and imagine myself trying to quickly find and then hold an angle on target. If the layout of the reticle makes that difficult for me, then I'm going to hate that scope every time I use it and regret buying it. I don't care if it's milrads or moa.

stovepipe

I don't want to turn this thread into an MOA vs Milrad thing, but there is one thing I prefer about milrad scopes.

With a milrad scope, when I see that I need to adjust my scope by some number of milrads, the number of clicks on the turret is simple to know.
For example:
0.7 mil = 7 clicks
1.2 mil = 12 clicks
2.3 mil = 23 clicks

With a moa scope, the relationship between some number of moa and the number of clicks on the turret is not as simple.
For example:
2.5 moa = 10 clicks
4.25 moa = 17 clicks
8 moa = 32 clicks

stovepipe

 

[zerochance]

I don't want to turn this thread into an MOA vs Milrad thing, but there is one thing I prefer about milrad scopes.

With a milrad scope, when I see that I need to adjust my scope by some number of milrads, the number of clicks on the turret is simple to know.
For example:
0.7 mil = 7 clicks
1.2 mil = 12 clicks
2.3 mil = 23 clicks

With a moa scope, the relationship between some number of moa and the number of clicks on the turret is not as simple.
For example:
2.5 moa = 10 clicks
4.25 moa = 17 clicks
8 moa = 32 clicks

stovepipe

That is interesting... I didn't know that. Definitely something to consider.

 

[stovepipe]

I'm also trying to better understand all of this. Watching this video helps tremendously but I'm still not getting it 100%. I'll have to watch it a few times.

Hi zerochance. It was only about 4 years ago that I was where you are now with watching these kinds of videos. They all talk about how many inches or centimeters different angles represent at different distances. My FFP scope has angle markings on the reticle. It is a measuring device. It measures angles -- not inches or centimeters. If I shoot at a dot on a big piece of cardboard and my pellet hits low, I can see how low it hit in moa or milrads and dial the turret up that many moa or milrads. Problem solved. The next try at shooting the dot should be a hit.

When I miss, I miss by some angle -- not by some distance.

Watching lots of moa vs millrad videos is not a waste of time. Just don't let it make you crazy. Cheers.

stovepipe

 

[zerochance]

I got my Bushnell Prime 1800!

 

[stovepipe]

I got my Bushnell Prime 1800!
View attachment 514637

Yeah, that's the one! I hope you ordered spare batteries. It's a very battery-efficient unit, but you'll probably go through a couple of batteries and range a thousand things as fast as you can just playing with your new toy -- I mean measuring device.

stovepipe

 

[DevilsLuck]

I just placed an order. Now, looking for a decent quality scopes... I don't know what to look for. Any tips on choosing a scope?

Arken optics is running some killer black Friday deals. And the Nightforce vs. Arken vids make it hard to pass on the Arken.

Home Page

Explore our extensive range of Arken optics, scopes, mounts, rings, and accessories, all designed to perform with rugged precision.

www.arkenopticsusa.com

 

[DevilsLuck]

I'm hunting tree squirrels 99% of the time. Farthest shot would probably be 60 yards. Budget would be around $300 range. I was looking at Hawke's website and was thinking of this one or something similar. But before buying I'd guess it'll be a smart idea to understand MOA vs MIL.

Vantage SF 3-12x44 Half Mil Dot

An extensive range of scopes to suit all calibres and disciplines. All Vantage riflescopes feature our H2 optics in a variety of configurations. Capped Low-Profile Turrets. 1 Inch Mono-Tube Chassis. Side Focus. 11 Layer Fully Multi-Coated Lenses. High Torque Zoom Ring. Fast Focus Eyebell

us.hawkeoptics.com

If one cannot read either MOA, nor Mil; I'd recommend Mil. MOA is antiquated, and ultimately more complicated than Mil when you start stretching out the distances. By the time our kids are our ages, I predict Mil will pretty much be the standard. Folks still make MOA scopes, to cater to the older crowd who grew up, and were trained on MOA. But as time goes by I think that crowd is gonna thin out dramatically.

 

[DevilsLuck]

I don't want to turn this thread into an MOA vs Milrad thing, but there is one thing I prefer about milrad scopes.

With a milrad scope, when I see that I need to adjust my scope by some number of milrads, the number of clicks on the turret is simple to know.
For example:
0.7 mil = 7 clicks
1.2 mil = 12 clicks
2.3 mil = 23 clicks

With a moa scope, the relationship between some number of moa and the number of clicks on the turret is not as simple.
For example:
2.5 moa = 10 clicks
4.25 moa = 17 clicks
8 moa = 32 clicks

stovepipe

Bingo! The math on the fly is soooo much easier in Mils. But for folks who don't or can't read, understand, and use either; it doesn't much matter. Just having any reticle with holdover, and windage marks is good enough to hot dog your shots in, with enough practice. And that's fine too.

 

[stovepipe]

If one cannot read either MOA, nor Mil; I'd recommend Mil. MOA is antiquated, and ultimately more complicated than Mil when you start stretching out the distances. By the time our kids are our ages, I predict Mil will pretty much be the standard. Folks still make MOA scopes, to cater to the older crowd who grew up, and were trained on MOA. But as time goes by I think that crowd is gonna thin out dramatically.

I was trying to be neutral about mil vs moa, but you got me -- I totally agree with you on all counts. Since zerochance is the OP and is, obviously, looking for a first(ish) good scope, I also recommend that learning to use a milradian scope first and then sticking with it makes perfect sense.

stovepipe

 

[zerochance]

If one cannot read either MOA, nor Mil; I'd recommend Mil. MOA is antiquated, and ultimately more complicated than Mil when you start stretching out the distances. By the time our kids are our ages, I predict Mil will pretty much be the standard. Folks still make MOA scopes, to cater to the older crowd who grew up, and were trained on MOA. But as time goes by I think that crowd is gonna thin out dramatically.

I think I am leaning towards mil as what stovepipe said with the mil. .7 mil = 7 clicks. This makes life a lot easier vs MOA. At least this divides my battle in half.

 

[zerochance]

Yeah, that's the one! I hope you ordered spare batteries. It's a very battery-efficient unit, but you'll probably go through a couple of batteries and range a thousand things as fast as you can just playing with your new toy -- I mean measuring device.

stovepipe

Ordering extra batteries as we speak!

 

[stovepipe]

I think I am leaning towards mil as what stovepipe said with the mil. .7 mil = 7 clicks. This makes life a lot easier vs MOA. At least this divides my battle in half.

Just be glad scopes don't come in Gradians too.

This is a great time to be buying a scope with it being holiday sale season. I'll look around for reliable FFP milradian scopes within your $300 budget. I know you're trying to keep the weight down and that you're generally not shooting farther than 60 yards. I guess that means a scope with no larger than a 44mm objective lens? Max magnification about 16x?

stovepipe

 

[zerochance]

Just be glad scopes don't come in Gradians too.

This is a great time to be buying a scope with it being holiday sale season. I'll look around for reliable FFP milradian scopes within your $300 budget. I know you're trying to keep the weight down and that you're generally not shooting farther than 60 yards. I guess that means a scope with no larger than a 44mm objective lens? Max magnification about 16x?

stovepipe

Exactly. Lol...

 

[stovepipe]

Hi zerochance. I'm finding that I'm probably not the best person to be looking for a lightweight hunting scope. I'm not a hunter. Your typical 60-yard range is about what my minimum range would be since I'm shooting still targets and I'm always trying to hit at farther and farther distances. I'm usually shooting at magnifications of 18x to 24x with a scope that has reticle marks every 0.2 mil. When I look at pictures of lower magnification scopes and see reticle markings at only 0.5 mil I tend to dismiss it, but it might be perfect for hunting.

stovepipe