LVPO vs red dot

[Bander124]

I got a sweet deal on an Athlon talos 1-4. I was tore between a red dot or lvpo for my early season squirrel season setup. I’ve found that most of my shots are close and fast. Around 10-25 yards. I was having a heck of a time finding them in my scope even at 4x. I hoping this will work out. My concern with a dot was most are 2+ moa. At least in my budget. I’m not feeling it to be good enough for repeatable head shots.


I was wondering what your all’s experience has been. And what you would choose.

 

[esingle]

Hello I have done, and still do a lot of shooting with a red and this has been my experience: with a 2 moa dot on a PB with a little work on my part I can hold a 1.5 moa group at 100yd and just under an inch at 50 this is achieved with AR platforms in both 5.56 @50 and 308 @100. As for airguns several of my guns have red dots Ataman ap16 just under an inch at 25 yds, Air Arms t200 ( chipmunk gun for the 10 yd bird feeder ragged hole @10 yds) and LCS19 22cal ragged hole at 25 yds. A 2 moa dot covers 1 inch at 50yds and 1/2 inch at 25yds. With a little practice with the red dot it should be no problem, just remember focus on the target and let the dot superimposed itself ( thats what I have found works best for me with both speed and accuracy). As for the 1-4 you just bought that should be fine and giving you the best of both worlds , just make sure that when you mount the optic that on 1x when the gun hits your cheek you don't have to hunt for the reticle (its right there and your ready to fire, as you got up in magnification you will be taking more time to aim and therefor will have the time to adjust the gun) Well I hope this helps and any questions just ask, also good luck with you hunting Eric

 

[qball]

At 10-25 yards LPVO is simply awesome, red dot is good to about 15 before it’s hard to get a precise shot for me. I have a 1-6 and usually leave it on 4 most of the time. Red dot is a ton lighter but that’s about the only advantage plus it’s impossible to see anything with the red dot in low light conditions thanks to my astigmatism…..yes, I had 300 dollar Sig red dot and it didn’t help at all plus I spend way too much time adjust brightness so there goes the speed advantage. 

 

[Bander124]

Yes it helps. I sight my guns using StrelokPro to the mpbr for .5 inches this gives me point a shoot out to 50 ish yds. This covers my shooting range. If I understand correctly mount scope at 1x and treat it like a red dot so to speak for super fast shooting.

 

[Michael]

I have some experience with both. The challenge with a red-dot is that unless you have multiple dots, its difficult to determine the proper holdover. I have trouble shooting anything small past 20 yards with a single 1x red-dot. Now a red-dot with multiple dots and a magnifier is a different story! But the cost is nothing to scoff at.



View attachment IMG_20220307_151558_169.1646697477.jpg

View attachment IMG_20220307_151558_238.1646697490.jpg



Another option might be a 3x red-dot with a holdover reticle like this https://www.edgunwest.com/store/optics/delta-optical/item/hornet-3x-prismatic-sight/



I also use several LPVO's (Low Power Variable Optics). They can typically be had for significantly less than a dot + magnifier combo. The challenge you'll find is that most LPVO's have a fixed parallax at 50 or 100y. That doesn't mean you can't use them, you simply have to use lower power at close ranges. I own this model https://www.edgunwest.com/store/optics/delta-optical/item/delta-optics-stryker-1-6x24/ this brand is known for performing well beyond its price.

Here are 2 lesser expensive models that I remember coming across in my search:

https://www.edgunwest.com/store/optics/delta-optical/item/delta-hornet-1-6-sfp/

https://utahairguns.com/optisan-cx6-1-6x24i/

 

[Long_Gun_Dallas]

I have been using Riton 2moa red dot sights. For the ~$100 or so they cost they are a STEAL. Just bought a second one! No issues nailing very small targets out to about 40 yards, and my eyes are aging. 

 

[Bander124]

I was wanting and looking hard into a red dot with magnifier. I have a friend that does 3 gun competition that I value his opinion said that he sides with LPVO over red dots. I knew he had several of them I was concerned about parallax issues he said at 1 to 4x he’s been able to do 10yds clearly. I was looking at a multi dot red but the deal on the Athlon was just too good to pass up. I’m still open to getting a red dot. I would like to run it atop my 4-18x for close in work. Something like a micro red dot. Have any you tried a red dot atop a scope?

 

[Michael]

I was wanting and looking hard into a red dot with magnifier. I have a friend that does 3 gun competition that I value his opinion said that he sides with LPVO over red dots. I knew he had several of them I was concerned about parallax issues he said at 1 to 4x he’s been able to do 10yds clearly. I was looking at a multi dot red but the deal on the Athlon was just too good to pass up. I’m still open to getting a red dot. I would like to run it atop my 4-18x for close in work. Something like a micro red dot. Have any you tried a red dot atop a scope?

My magnifier is 4x and for me that's good to +/- 50y. LPVO's are certainly more accurate.

 

[bertman77mk2]

I have Aimpoints, Eotech’s, and Trijicon RMR’s. I do my best with the Eotech with the 1 MOA dot. DMR AR15’s can be under 1MOA at 100 yds. With a 10/22 22LR I look way better than I am on running game (rabbits) with a high % of first round hits. I have Eotechs on Vixen .22 short and a Leyla .25 ad both are near the front door for stepping outside for quick, accurate shots. Trijicon does make the RMR in 1 MOA dot but few people know of it. I use it on handguns and with some high-powered scopes for that coyote that shows up close and moving. Also the Eotech is available with 3 dots for different predetermined ranges. The LPVO that I am enamored with is the Razor 1x10, but that is expensive as is getting a multiplier with an Eotech. Wish I had 10 of @ setup but only 1 of @!!

 

[theLBC]

i use a 1-10x lpvo most of the time.

 

[Michael]

i use a 1-10x lpvo most of the time.

1-10x is the new trend! Though arguably 10x is mid-power and not low-power. Which brand/model are you rockin? The new Eotech Vudu 1-10x looks neat, but there are very few reviews out yet (and it's $1800). 

 

[Mr.H]

I have some experience with both. The challenge with a red-dot is that unless you have multiple dots, its difficult to determine the proper holdover. I have trouble shooting anything small past 20 yards with a single 1x red-dot. Now a red-dot with multiple dots and a magnifier is a different story! But the cost is nothing to scoff at.



View attachment IMG_20220307_151558_169.1646697477.jpg

View attachment IMG_20220307_151558_238.1646697490.jpg



Another option might be a 3x red-dot with a holdover reticle like this https://www.edgunwest.com/store/optics/delta-optical/item/hornet-3x-prismatic-sight/



I also use several LPVO's (Low Power Variable Optics). They can typically be had for significantly less than a dot + magnifier combo. The challenge you'll find is that most LPVO's have a fixed parallax at 50 or 100y. That doesn't mean you can't use them, you simply have to use lower power at close ranges. I own this model https://www.edgunwest.com/store/optics/delta-optical/item/delta-optics-stryker-1-6x24/ this brand is known for performing well beyond its price.

I have the same scope, its not on an air rifle, but I will say that it is excellent. On lower power settings, objects closer than 50 yds are clear.

 

[theLBC]

i use a 1-10x lpvo most of the time.

1-10x is the new trend! Though arguably 10x is mid-power and not low-power. Which brand/model are you rockin? The new Eotech Vudu 1-10x looks neat, but there are very few reviews out yet (and it's $1800).

relatively cheap swampfox arrowhead. it is a good value for the price, but fixed parallax isn't ideal for an airgun if you are shooting up close.

 

[jwrabbit123]

I had trouble with a single red dot unless i shot at same distance , I sold my aimpoint and got a Eotech 3x 3-4 with has alot of ranging areas , granted it was designed for a AR gun and steel plates or combat as the dots and circles are good with a ar platform out to 600 yds with a 3x magnifier with a 5.56 so once you zero on your platform the dots can be used for holdover the outer ring is 68inches @100 yards so can be used for wind but it was designed to range a person as this was built for combat ,

here is what I run for red dot







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tihlImHyVNw

Now me my self I love LVPO much better as you can really streach out the shots and precision is much better , I used to run 5 or 6 of the lvpos , Bushnell 1-6 , swfa 1x6 hd , trijicon 1-8 accu-power and my newest one I use now is called a vortex razor 1-10 , now again these were built for mid range out to say 800 yds with 308 or ar , but great for pcp guns , While the razor3 has no parallax adjustment with good glass and design it is fine in close range you get crystal clear images , however this optic went up like 140% with MSRP isince I got it , The reticle is well thought out and has a great tree type reticle good for quick follow up shots , great in low light and even magnifaction is superb compared to other ones I have tried , and Vortex is great if they ever need service ,a good company. and weighs only 21 ounces and has a 34mm tube ,

 

[Scouty]

Yes it helps. I sight my guns using StrelokPro to the mpbr for .5 inches this gives me point a shoot out to 50 ish yds. This covers my shooting range. If I understand correctly mount scope at 1x and treat it like a red dot so to speak for super fast shooting.

Where does your MPBR start? Meaning where is the first 1/4" low point? And will you set up an LPVO or RDS with the same height to keep a similar MPBR? Or will you set them up lower because they naturally do so and it will bring the MPBR in closer?

If you can set up the RDS to make your early season 10-25 yard range fit within your MPBR I think an RDS is as fast as you'll get. I have shot those skinny cans with them up to 25 yards but due to astigmatism never trusted myself to shoot a squirrel with one that far.

And speaking of those skinny cans, that's often how red squirrel around here present themselves early in the season. They just sit there and chirp at you, often well within 10 yards. In this case you have a bit of forgiveness with your distance as you can be off a bit and still hit the vitals. 

From your description that's not the type of shots you're getting so to me a lot of this would boil down to whether you need the speed of a red dot or the holdover points of your Athlon.

 

[steve123]

I remember when I was a kid using iron sighted rifles that it didn't seem to matter the angle a critter could be up in a tree, this is because the sight was 5/8" above the bore. It's different when the sight is 2" or more above the bore. For example using my 30 yard zero and aiming at a critter at 10Y my dope for my FT rifle calls for 2.7mils holdover so if I didn't account for that I would miss a squirrels head even though its close.

Using that same FT rifle when the distance is past 18Y on flat ground or less than 30 degrees angle I'm within .2mil and this dope is within .2 mil until I get to 46Y. So what I'm getting at is I'd need to range the critter if it was less 18Y, or more than 45Y, to make a good hit on it, or at least take less of a chance of wounding it.

Also the greater the angle the less you need to holdover. 

The LPVO is more versatile and it is very slightly slower to use which is just about a non issue 98% of the time. With my March 1-10x28 on my AR I can hit medium sized steel out to a 223's effective range of 800Y with little difficulty providing the wind is down some, that's either holding over or dialing. Having 10x on tap sure helps, so does 10Y min parallax close focus for airgun use in case I want to put it on one! The same thing/long range is much harder to do with a RD.

I like standard RD's for MPBR though and wouldn't mind using a 2 moa dot. I use one on a 10M pistol which is easier to use than the match irons sights because my eyes aren't very good anymore. Actually I should have a RD on all my pistols at this point in my life but - more money.

Michael's RD with holdover dots and magnifier for sure makes it more versatile.

 

[Bander124]

As of now it’s MRD 38yds near zero of 17yd and max drop of 45 yd. I may increase my speed to flatten this out a bit. Gun will be R5m in .22 running the H&N 21g barracudas. In my specific areas there are very few reds/fox just a crazy amount of greys. They have all been shot on the ground foraging. I have astigmatism as-well. I’m not intending on using marks for aim points but more as a quick range estimation. If it’s body fits between this has mark and this hash mark it’s in my MDR. I fear that at one x this may not work out well. This is how I run my mid dot scopes at least it’s faster than rangefinder.

 

[Scouty]

If your near zero is 17 yards I'm assuming your MPBR still starts outside of your desired 10 yard minimum distance mentioned in the first post. If anything I'd be inclined to lower speed a bit to bring your near zero in a bit closer. Your MPBR will likely extend well beyond the 25 yards you mentioned.

I have a Leshiy set up right now shooting 25 grain Polymags & I think my 1/2" kill zone MPBR is around 10 to 25 yards & that's shooting extremely slow.

Our Reds don't do their stand & chatter thing unless they're up in a tree. My shots at foraging squirrel tend to be my longer shots. Fox squirrel are less common here but they do seem to offer that shot more often now that I think about it.

Which just goes to show you the importance of tailoring your setup to your needs. I look forward to hearing what works for you.

Since you mention having an astigmatism I'd certainly start with your LPVO & see if you're able to get on target as quick as you'd like.

 

[peaceful_ruler]

I’m definitely looking for a 1-6 LVPO as my all around hunting scope. Aside from long range precision(+400 yards) and target/bench rest competition Aits my opinion that an illuminated 1-6 will handle any hunting scenario quite well and most scenarios perfectly. Especially with SFP and a good reticle…

 

[Guest]

I am losing contrast in my vision. So went to 1-4 scope on a 20 ga turkey shot gun to help pick out squirrels on the ground and gained a lot of speed. Guess because of practice. Anyway it transferred to the airgun. As long as the gun shoulders well and lines up with my eye I can get an accurate enough shot off with most any scope under 6x and under. As far as holdover or hold under I just think in terms of squirrel heads or for heart shot bogy width. You know top of the head or one over, what ever My air gun's Scope-pe is tight to the barrel and shot pretty flat, which works for me. I know what are talking about. It like ready, set, go nd one needs to be getting shot off. Sight gets on target you have to believe in it and pull the trigger. If the routine goes wrong let the squirrel go. It will be back. It's a squirrel. Say I still work at it.