Tuning M3 tuning question

[ArmedLeftist]

Hey all,

just ordered a new M3 in 22 with the short 500mm barrel. I am trying to do some larnin’ before it arrives and have a question.

it has been my understanding that, in the interest of efficiency (and also accuracy), one of the goals of tuning is to find/set the released air such that the “pulse” of air is basically only as long as the barrel. That is, that the valve shuts off just (just!) before the pellet/slug leaves the barrel. With my other guns, the only thing (other than reg/tank pressure), I have to work with is hammer strike power. With the M3, there is also the valve tuning knob. Anyone have any thoughts on the above (including potentially telling me that my “understanding” clearly gained when I must have been high on crack).



thanks in advance. Good to be back.

 

[douger]

gun should come tuned pretty well as it is shoot it first break in enjoy it

 

[ArmedLeftist]

Thanks for all your edits. 

As an engineer, I tend to seek technical explanations of the type, quality, and detail not generally found on UTube. To your latest point, having purchased from UAG, I too am confident it will arrive with a good tune, albeit caliber, barrel, and presumed/purpose specific. I fully intend to thoroughly explore the many possibilities offerred by this platform, and as such i'd like to better understand how things actually work together, and to what end. Hence, the question i asked. 

 

[Vetmx]

And that is usually what gets a large percentage of Impact owners into trouble which leads to frustration. Overthinking the gun. Like you stated, the only thing it has over a normal PCP is a valve knob. A lot of guys don’t even use it. You don’t need it on a Edgun or Taipan do you? Just follow normal regulated PCP tuning procedures with your valve all the way open. With pellets, just use the valve to shave a final 10fps off your tune. You’ll be fine. With slugs? Well, that’s a whole different subject. There are a couple ways to skin that cat but in the end, your gun will have to be set damn near perfect to shoot them at its best.

 

[ArmedLeftist]

Well, properly done (which I have been trying to do), there is no "overthinking" in engineering, only committed, educated, and appropriate thinking. That/those go a long way to preventing the inevitable frustration that comes from just hacking at a poorly understood challenge, hoping for the perfection you mention. 


Still seeking an expert willing to share what they know about this gun. 

 

[Vetmx]

Well since you don’t have to engineer the gun, FX took care of that, tuning is pretty straightforward. I don’t have enough skin on my fingertips to type all I know about the gun but the one thing I can tell you is document everything you do. You will see patterns emerge.

 

[Jayson]

The biggest thing to keep in mind with the shorter barrels is to run higher on the reg and light on the hammer, this will simply mean your valve dwell time will be short or quick for that tune, this will greatly change from light to heavy pellets, so if you consider tuning to your heavier pellets initially? You will be fine on the lighter ones, not optimal, but fine.
On the valve adjustment, leave it open or out past the fourth line until last, then over a crony of course, run it in slowly until it comes into play, noticeable decrease! Small paint mark there! Don’t get confused if your velocities go up when moving that in, your just getting your efficiency right, it will drop at some point eventually, at least you now know where that will be right? As an engineer, hopefully mechanical? (I work with 100 of you guys) you will need to continue to research and walk the path, maybe find your own? If you get lost, start over, that means turning everything way down, reg and hammer, never mess around in the middle, you may be past a good place and that happens, even more with he larger plenums. 
ok, I’m rambling now, that’s my monthly typing limit. Good luck! 

 

[ArmedLeftist]

Obviously a lack of understanding of the question I asked and the response for which I was hoping, has occurred. It seems I may have been expecting too much. Nevermind.



edit: above originally posted prior to receipt of Jayson’s response above

 

[Jayson]

Obviously a lack of understanding of the question I asked and the response for which I was hoping, has occurred. It seems I may have been expecting too much. Nevermind.

That better not be your response to my efforts to help you? Never mind might as well be the middle finger! Don’t do that, if I am mistaken? Then I will back up. Thanks

 

[Bigragu]

Obviously a lack of understanding of the question I asked and the response for which I was hoping, has occurred. It seems I may have been expecting too much. Nevermind.

I’ve reread both Jaysons and Vetmx’s responses to you, three times, in an effort to assist, and they are both spot on. I’ve also read your initial post a few times, and yes they did answer your question on the valve, what it is and what it does.

If what you’re truly seeking is for someone to give you a tune, there’s a thread out there for that. Tons of them. Just be aware that I have yet to see anyone who got a tune given to him, reply back to let everyone know his tune came out perfect and exactly like the tune of the guy that shared it.

Seems to me the other share your tune threads branched off of that main one started by Nate, from folks that didn’t get their perfect tune from his thread.

 

[ArmedLeftist]

@jayson Thanks for your post, I appreciate it and will follow your advice. Actually, I wasn’t really trying to find out “how” to tune (by making balanced adjustments), but what/why those adjustments individually actually/literally do. Collectively, they end up at “tuned”, but I was wondering what each actually does in contribution to that end. You mention “dwell” which to me implies a temporal element, rather than simply an increase/decrease in air passing through the valve. So, perhaps it is actually dwell (established by how long the valve is open, regardless of flow amount, that “sizes” the pulse of air behind the projectile so that size is not bigger than the barrel (where any excess is waste and can actually upset the stability of the projectile, that has just left the barrel, by still providing a bit of “push”, but now with turbulent air? If so, I can understand why higher pressure (balanced as needed with valve setting and hammer strike strength/weight) is needed for short barrels: higher pressure push to accelerate in a shorter distance, by a shorter “pulse” of air behind it. All that being the case and as was previously suggested, it seems like all that could be achieved with just reg-pressure and hammer. So, I’d be curious to know how the FX engineering team’s requirements/use-cases/user-stories actually read that resulted in the valve knob existing.



thanks again. It seems really understanding (and perhaps even quantifying), the interplay between the elements of this system would allow for development of a reusable (and analogue) algorithm that could spit out appropriate settings to use for any possible configuration, without having to go out and hack through lots of magazines to find the right settings for each gross configuration change, each and every time (now that I think of it, that must be essentialy what the code in the Red Wolf does).

 

[ArmedLeftist]

@bigragu I wasn’t looking for a recipe (or directions to a cookbook) for how to tune, I was looking for a technical explanation of what each of the elements (reg, valve, hammer), actually do in the grand scheme of things; particularly as regards the interplay between the valve and the hammer.

 

[ArmedLeftist]

@bigragu I am unfamiliar with those other threads you mention. Until I posted this (mostly academic) question, it’s been a couple of years since I’ve been on this site.

 

[bamavet55]

How did you accomplish the tuning of your Impact MK2 more than 2 years ago?

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/impact-mkii-kit-install/?referrer=1

I don't believe the valve's function has changed since then.

Congrats on the acquisition of your new Impact. I'm sure you are quite excited about getting to use this technological marvel.

I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

 

[ChRiSiS]

… I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

 

[ArmedLeftist]

How did you accomplish the tuning of your Impact MK2 more than 2 years ago?

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/impact-mkii-kit-install/?referrer=1

I don't believe the valve's function has changed since then.

Congrats on the acquisition of your new Impact. I'm sure you are quite excited about getting to use this technological marvel.

I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

Thanks, I’m looking forward to it!

as far as my Mk 1/2 goes, I wasn’t as curious then as I am now. To answer your question, I tuned that gun by watching the watch-then-do tutorials on YouTube. Again, I haven’t been looking for instructions on how to get to a good tune. That is easy.

 

[bamavet55]

How did you accomplish the tuning of your Impact MK2 more than 2 years ago?

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/impact-mkii-kit-install/?referrer=1

I don't believe the valve's function has changed since then.

Congrats on the acquisition of your new Impact. I'm sure you are quite excited about getting to use this technological marvel.

I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

By watching the watch-then-do tutorials on YouTube. Again, I haven’t been looking for instructions on how to get to a good tune.

Oh, I know.

Again, congrats on the new FX Impact M3.

It's top of the line.

 

[CoyoteGod]

A "great tune" is only a great tune in the exact environment and elevation, etc, etc that you did the tune. Your great tune will change every day and need some micro adjustments. There is the answer to why no one ever has the "perfect tune". A good Impact tune in the desert of California will not be a good tune for the wetlands of Florida. Just simple as that. The great shooters have a good middle ground tune for a specific projectile and can tune on the fly for the elevation and environmental conditions because they really understand how all the adjustments work together. Especially if they are competing. Us hunters want that middle ground tune that is flexible. I am still learning a lot that is for sure, but at least I am not chasing my tail as much, which makes the hobby MORE FUN! Took me so long to "not over think it", and accept that a truly great tune is a accurate gun with plenty of shots pushing the slug/pellet I want at the speed I want and it being an average with some "give" for the day to day changes and still shoot well without always having to carry tools with me. The pursuit of the "perfect" tune can become overly done. I think there is validity in the concept of over tuning. 

I know original OP has stated he isn't looking for tunes or tuning info, just info. I get that, I am just having fun and participating with friends. Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

 

[ArmedLeftist]

How did you accomplish the tuning of your Impact MK2 more than 2 years ago?

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/impact-mkii-kit-install/?referrer=1

I don't believe the valve's function has changed since then.

Congrats on the acquisition of your new Impact. I'm sure you are quite excited about getting to use this technological marvel.

I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

By watching the watch-then-do tutorials on YouTube. Again, I haven’t been looking for instructions on how to get to a good tune.

Oh, I know.

Again, congrats on the new FX Impact M3.

It's top of the line.

Thanks, I’m looking forward to it!

Thank you for your service. Me too…USN Air Traffic Controller, Surface Rescue Swimmer.

 

[ArmedLeftist]

How did you accomplish the tuning of your Impact MK2 more than 2 years ago?

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/impact-mkii-kit-install/?referrer=1

I don't believe the valve's function has changed since then.

Congrats on the acquisition of your new Impact. I'm sure you are quite excited about getting to use this technological marvel.

I could say much more here, however, I try to adhere to the adage:

"Brevity is the soul wit."

By watching the watch-then-do tutorials on YouTube. Again, I haven’t been looking for instructions on how to get to a good tune.

Oh, I know.

Again, congrats on the new FX Impact M3.

It's top of the line.

Thanks, I’m looking forward to it!

[thumbs up emoji]