MAC1 USFT Analysis/Overview

[Therealld]

Tim won EBR a few years back using a 30 cal MAC1 USFT that he built for a customer.

In 2014. I understand it was only to 75 yards that year as EBR rules have changed throughout the years.

Here's a pic of the gun he won with that year.

Quite a few modifications from the standard tubed, or even bottle/regulated configurations. That bottle looks like the float in a livestock watering tank!!!

Yah,

It was Linsie’s rifle … Tim collaborated in the build with her. I hated the looks of it, but he did win with it. I used an unregulated low pressure gun in .22 cal I built to win the very first EBR a few few years before that one Tim did. Also 75yd.



LD

 

[Therealld]

Frank,

The initial concept was to build custom FT rifles more or less fit to the customer, and tuned to deliver capable accuracy BEFORE the customer got the gun. For this reason, early guns normally had heavy hammers, small transfer ports, and slightly long hammer and valve return springs. The gun was testfired in my tunnel, and basic velocity and air fill settings by adjusting hammer weight (by grinding metal off, lightening springs and sizing the transfer port as needed to get the right shot count and pressure range.

A Bushnel 6-24X scope was then fitted with mechanically centered reticle and the gun fired to see the poi. If way out, the barrel was removed and tested for straightness in the lathe, and trued if needed. Once the barrel was reinstalled, the poi windage was usually ok, but sometimes needed a bit of indexing to give roundest groups. Then the scope rail was usually milled to give the correct “droop” to allow good movement throughout the intended 10-55 yard range with the Bushy scope, which was selected because they are very limited in adjustment range compared to about any other model.

Finally, the gun was fired for group size in the tunnel, and needed to demonstrate sub-moa at 51yds over a series of groups. Bore polishing, crowning, leade shaping etc., or barrel changing was done as needed to accomplish this. 

I did about the first fifty guns for Tim using that procedure, than helped phase Tim in for the next 25-30 guns, and helped him sometimes for a after that until around 2010.

Tim gradually got the hammer weights and spring lengths to be more or less drop-in, and made the port bigger and added to strangler screw to make the gun more or less ready to ship after assembly. Fortunately, the JSB pellets and LW barrel combo is working fairly well for most shooters.

 

[Franklink]

Sounds like quite the labor of love for those earliest ones, with all the grinding, machining, milling, and otherwise individual adjusting necessary for each rifle. 

Prior to those first batches where Tim was involved, specifically in the case of those first 7 Simple Simon's that came out of your garage, what kind of machining equipment did you use? Lathe and mill? Or more crude than that? (Files and hand drills and patience?) 

Mine was built much later than the timeframe to which you refer but mine did arrive shooting spectacularly well, just as you mention the original concept was. I only had to figure out a cleaning regimen and realize lubed pellets greatly extended that. Otherwise, I've mostly just shot and enjoyed it. 

Yes, LW barrel and JSB 10.34s is a VERY accurate combo in mine. I would turn down a very hefty sum of money if somebody offered such in attempts to acquire my barrel. I've always been curious if Tim did some sort of special barrel prep process or if I just lucked out with a phenomenal barrel. 

I'll sometimes go a few months without shooting it, and I'm always rewarded with surprise at how accurate it is when I get it out again. Almost like I forgot just what is capable of. Big smiles with every shooting session with the USFT but especially that first one after my attention has been on other things for a while. 

 

[JimInSoCal]

This is a wonderful, well-presented look at the USFT. I am a big fan of the platform. I have a half dozen. And the versatility is not to be underestimated. I have a 12 fpe bottle gun for light varmint BR, an unregulated hunter class rifle (16 ft lbs) for FT, a 30 fpe-ish unregged rifle for Open BR and Extreme events, and working on an unregged 12fpe BR gun, and a 50 fpe bottle gun for extreme events. This platform can do just about anything. and with the barrel block setup, you can easily test barrels and tunes. Very few other platforms are that easy.

 

[Arzrover]

Thanks Larry, for yor contributions here. I have known a little of the history, but not enough. It's quite interesting.

Fwiw, mine is #25, which Tim says was around number 13 to be assembled. I know you tested and tuned it, but the barrel was fairly curved and was barely on paper at 10 yards. I indexed it to 12 oclock and had to bend it some to get it to the center of my scope. The 25 shot group that came with it was about nickle sized. I shot with it and won quite a bit but found the barrel very wind sensitive and at the Nat's at Roz's place, the wind was so erratic I couldn't deal with it and ultimately shot my Steyr. It had about 40% sized groups on Roz's sightin range compared to my USFT. Sometime after that, Wayne sold me my current barrel and I came early to your Temecula Challenge that year where we spent a full day tinkering with barrels on it. It is VERY good now . I believe Franklink's is every bit as good and his has a much more tame firing cycle. I think about trying to tune it some, just never have and it shoots SO well, can't say I really want to mess with it.

Fun times and a GREAT rifle !

Thanks again for contributing to this thread, Larry !

Bob

 

[Franklink]

Thanks Larry, for yor contributions here. I have known a little of the history, but not enough. It's quite interesting.

.....,,....

Fun times and a GREAT rifle !

Thanks again for contributing to this thread, Larry !

Bob

Can't agree more. 

Very rare treat to get to hear from the chief engineer/inventer/designer/creator of an airgun and the why's and how's that went into it's creation. 

When I do a breakdown of an airgun , owned or borrowed, I do it with the intent of creating a reference for interested parties to find in the future or occasionally refer back to.

Your contributions here make this much more than just my ramblings and opinions. 

THANK YOU! 

 

[stoti]

This was a great thread. Your gun is spectacular Frank! Pretty awesome air guns. I had never had a chance to shoot one before meeting LD up at Ashland EBR and getting to shoot his. It took a little getting used to but holy smokes, it was accurate. The boys and I also thought it was really great to be able to talk to and get to know someone so instrumental in the gun’s design. Pretty special to be able to do that kind of thing in our sport. 

The boys said to say hello LD.

Stoti

 

[Therealld]

Sounds like quite the labor of love for those earliest ones, with all the grinding, machining, milling, and otherwise individual adjusting necessary for each rifle. 

Prior to those first batches where Tim was involved, specifically in the case of those first 7 Simple Simon's that came out of your garage, what kind of machining equipment did you use? Lathe and mill? Or more crude than that? (Files and hand drills and patience?) 

Mine was built much later than the timeframe to which you refer but mine did arrive shooting spectacularly well, just as you mention the original concept was. I only had to figure out a cleaning regimen and realize lubed pellets greatly extended that. Otherwise, I've mostly just shot and enjoyed it. 

Yes, LW barrel and JSB 10.34s is a VERY accurate combo in mine. I would turn down a very hefty sum of money if somebody offered such in attempts to acquire my barrel. I've always been curious if Tim did some sort of special barrel prep process or if I just lucked out with a phenomenal barrel. 

I'll sometimes go a few months without shooting it, and I'm always rewarded with surprise at how accurate it is when I get it out again. Almost like I forgot just what is capable of. Big smiles with every shooting session with the USFT but especially that first one after my attention has been on other things for a while.

Frank,

I started making some guns way back using a small Logan 9” lathe, a Makita disc grinder., a small pedestal grinder and a pedestal drillpress with an XY table I used as my “milling machine”. I also had lots of hand tools and a gas welding outfit. I did have to use lots of sweat labor, sometimes taking a couple days roughing out a trigger part of hammer from tool steel, scribing the outline in dykem, then drilling a series of holes in the outline and sawing and filing til it ended up what I wanted … then hardening with the gas torch. 

When I moved to my present location in Temecula, I had already purchased a knee mill and 14” gap-bed lathe from an estate sale … used Taiwanese stuff, but I still use them several times a week. No DRO, just handwheels using mostly used tooling I resharpen myself when needed … though I have scored some carbide stuff on occasion and use it for finishing. I learned to make tools as a teen in a large jobshop, and still find the skill come in handy, even with my crude grinders. When I started the FT project gun, I found cutting thick aluminum plates and shafts with a hacksaw got old, and bought a bandsaw from Harbor Freight, and its still one of my most used tools.

LD

 

[Uglyjohn]

Can’t say how much I enjoy following this thread! It’s a pleasant departure from the usual “pup talk” found here and I hope it gets revived from time to time. Uj

 

[Franklink]

LD, thanks for the machining equipment details. 

John, glad to hear you're enjoying the discussion. It's been fun to write, and even more fun to hear from LD. 

 

[Therealld]

LD, thanks for the machining equipment details. 

John, glad to hear you're enjoying the discussion. It's been fun to write, and even more fun to hear from LD.

Frank,

So hows come you aren’t coming to The AAFTA National Match in Morro Bay? Would bve nice to see more non-Calif guys … as I hear they make up less than 40% of the field for now. Seems there are more Calif guys attend Az events than versa visa?



LD

 

[Franklink]

LD, thanks for the machining equipment details. 

John, glad to hear you're enjoying the discussion. It's been fun to write, and even more fun to hear from LD.

Frank,

So hows come you aren’t coming to The AAFTA National Match in Morro Bay? Would bve nice to see more non-Calif guys … as I hear they make up less than 40% of the field for now. Seems there are more Calif guys attend Az events than versa visa?



LD

Multifactorial. 

I'm at a different stage of life than the average hard core field target shooter. I've got a 12, 8, and 3 year old and still have a full time job, which has actually averaged out to 54hrs a week so far this year, so MORE than a full time job. 

I've also been remodeling a house and getting the property in shape on my few days off (building irrigation ditches and berms planting a pasture, building pens, moving barns/sheds, putting in sprinkler systems and grass and general landscaping, etc). 

I also don't shoot on Sundays. I've attended a few AZ state matches and only shot on Saturdays, just for fun. 

I generally try to make it to one one match a month, and they're all at least 2hrs from home, so it turns into a whole day deal. And even that one day trip per month makes me feel selfish about my time and kids and wife. 

So, just a general lack of time, and the Sunday thing makes a trip to California (ie that much time and investment) to only shoot half the match just not make a lot of sense, to my unique situation. 

 

[JimInSoCal]

for some additional info. my LV BR rifle has a 3000 psi bottle. the reg is set to 750psi. I can easily shoot 2 full cards plus sighters. If I used it for WFTF I could certainly shoot a full FT match plus. Last time I weighed it, it was under 10 lbs. This one has a LW poly slow twist barrel. Tack driver with 8.4s.

I don't want to curse myself before the nationals, but my FT tube USFT has been untouched since I bought it about 12 years ago. I wish I was a better shooter. this is a "clean the course" rifle. But between brain farts and the forced position shots it hasn't happened. I've been very busy with work and life, so I have not shot FT regularly, but when sighting in my 55, 30, and 10 yard dope doesn't shift. that is incredible performance. But in FT as in life, everyone chase the flavor of the month. If its new it has to be better. However I believe that this is a rifle that can always win in the hands of a good shooter. With some smart buying and patience I've been able to buy examples of this world class rifle for less than half the price of the current hot brands. No regrets, and no desire to chase the hype.

 

[Therealld]

LD, thanks for the machining equipment details. 

John, glad to hear you're enjoying the discussion. It's been fun to write, and even more fun to hear from LD.

Frank,

So hows come you aren’t coming to The AAFTA National Match in Morro Bay? Would bve nice to see more non-Calif guys … as I hear they make up less than 40% of the field for now. Seems there are more Calif guys attend Az events than versa visa?



LD

Multifactorial. 

I'm at a different stage of life than the average hard core field target shooter. I've got a 12, 8, and 3 year old and still have a full time job, which has actually averaged out to 54hrs a week so far this year, so MORE than a full time job. 

I've also been remodeling a house and getting the property in shape on my few days off (building irrigation ditches and berms planting a pasture, building pens, moving barns/sheds, putting in sprinkler systems and grass and general landscaping, etc). 

I also don't shoot on Sundays. I've attended a few AZ state matches and only shot on Saturdays, just for fun. 

I generally try to make it to one one match a month, and they're all at least 2hrs from home, so it turns into a whole day deal. And even that one day trip per month makes me feel selfish about my time and kids and wife. 

So, just a general lack of time, and the Sunday thing makes a trip to California (ie that much time and investment) to only shoot half the match just not make a lot of sense, to my unique situation.

Frank, I didn’t realize you don’t shoot on Sunday. I started shooting FT in ‘86, but my three girls were already teens that could drive by then, and though I did work at least 55hrs/wk and more, it was normally all done in f days. I had no issues regarding working Sunday, and within ten more years, I was already retired, and could camp, fish, and shoot anytime I wanted. But nowadays, health issues keep me from shooting at matches away from home much, or (more importantly) very well. I still shoot here on my ranch, but just for fun, and barely 8 times a year.

LD

 

[Therealld]

for some additional info. my LV BR rifle has a 3000 psi bottle. the reg is set to 750psi. I can easily shoot 2 full cards plus sighters. If I used it for WFTF I could certainly shoot a full FT match plus. Last time I weighed it, it was under 10 lbs. This one has a LW poly slow twist barrel. Tack driver with 8.4s.

I don't want to curse myself before the nationals, but my FT tube USFT has been untouched since I bought it about 12 years ago. I wish I was a better shooter. this is a "clean the course" rifle. But between brain farts and the forced position shots it hasn't happened. I've been very busy with work and life, so I have not shot FT regularly, but when sighting in my 55, 30, and 10 yard dope doesn't shift. that is incredible performance. But in FT as in life, everyone chase the flavor of the month. If its new it has to be better. However I believe that this is a rifle that can always win in the hands of a good shooter. With some smart buying and patience I've been able to buy examples of this world class rifle for less than half the price of the current hot brands. No regrets, and no desire to chase the hype.

Hi Jim,

Yes, used airguns are often the best way though in the case of some “Hot Brand” air rifles, you might end up with some troubleshooting issues that mean hard to get and expensive parts …. BUT the USFT platform isnt like that, since only the three O’rings (front plug, receiver front, and barrel/breech seal) I’ve ever seen fail, and the first two, which are internal, if they hold ok initially, last such a long time (sometimes over a decade) while the breech seal might only go a few yrs, but can be changed in the field in a couple minutes with a toothpick or penknife. The only moving parts inside the action are the firing valve stem/head and its return spring … easy to change in a few minutes with no diss-assembly except the valve body if the scope is off, and you have the special pin wrench from Mac1, and as you know, it’s easier than removing a sparkplug from a lawnmower.

You have scored on the prices of the used USFT’s you have, but even if you paid a bit more, they are still pretty good deals, since the risk of hidden repair issues is so slight.

Frankly, if the trigger/hammer assy works ok, and holds air for at least a day, only the barrel might need attention, and if a good clean and polish doesn’t do it, they cost about the same as a sleeve of pellets. I know of no other pcp suitable for competition (comp guns a normally fired many, many more times than say … hunting guns) that is as rugged and reliable. Not strange because it was designed for extreme reliability without regard to costs.

I DID wrestle with titanium vs aluminum for the airtube, but due the capacity of my primitive shop equipment and tooling, I couldn’t effectively make the tube in titanium at the time. In the end, I decided the aluminum was the best choice for the job, and at the design pressure, was safe and effective. Steel was ruled out due to possible rust/corrosion issues, titanium raised the tube weight unless higher design pressure was used. BTW, titanium tube cost around 10 times as much as the aluminum, but I would have used it if I felt it was way better.

LD 

 

[Airgunoregon]

Great thread Frank,

I told LD many years ago he should write a book on the history of the USFT. He said I should write it for him, and I said I would... but of course, like many other things in my life, I haven't. Prolly never will, so this is a great thing you are doing.

I started in field target and collecting & shooting USFTs in 2008 when I saw an ad Billy Lo had online. He was selling 12fpe USFT #44 he had won as a prize for winning the Nats in 2005 in Washington state. Tim was hoping He would go the worlds and use it to do well, but his bad back wouldn't allow it, so I think he let Paul Cray use it to place 8th. I also bought 3- BSA 10-50x60 Platinum scopes from Billy, that I only later understood how good they were. I only have one left.

Later, when his back injury was getting worse and he didn't think he could shoot anymore, he asked if I wanted to buy #6 that he had won that 2005 National Championship with.. of course I said yes.

I also collected the one Tim sold to Tom Gaylord (aka BB), for half price so he could do his testing and write a blog about it... I think that was #57

A couple years ago, Larry built me a short 12fpe carbine bottle gun for WFTF class i shoot now, since I'm old and seem to be shrinking in size more every year I can't handle a full size rig anymore, especially offhand. It's so much more accurate than I'll ever shoot and makes up for my wobble with the ability to find the KZ as I wobble by. It's got the smallest bottle I've ever seen, and I only fill it to 2,000 psi so as to not stress out the 750psi reg, but still, I get 60 shots on a fill How does he tune like that???? This gun is to be buried with me in my grave.

After a few years, i finally convinced LD he needed to build a USFT pistol and he did make 3 of them, one of which I sold back to him last month, when he wanted one to shoot pistol class at CA state and the Nationals this year.

I've bought many others and sold more than I wanted to in tough times, but in my mind they are the best air gun investment one can make either for shooting or collection value.

Larry is my best friend on this planet.... he can seem rough on the edges at times, especially when one is speaking in error, but his heart is as kind and caring as any I've met in my 72 year lifetime.

The Air Gun world and I will miss him greatly when he's gone. He continues to add new ideas and new capacities to this stable, accurate and dependable platform even in this late stage in his lifetime... and don't ever challenge him to arm wrestle.. even at 75 he'll beat your ass in a second.

Wayne Burns

Match Director,

2021 AAFTA National Championships

Ashland Air Rifle Range

 

[JimInSoCal]

I bought one a USFT from you Wayne. and turned it into an awesome LV bench rest gun. then I messed around with it, mistake for me, but LD helped me dial it back in.

 

[baranjhn]

Awesome thread! I've been out of air gunning for a bit but I making my way back into it. I had a Hunter model that I used to shoot benchrest down in Yulee, FL, but I moved and wound up letting it go. I may have to get another one.

 

[Therealld]

Awesome thread! I've been out of air gunning for a bit but I making my way back into it. I had a Hunter model that I used to shoot benchrest down in Yulee, FL, but I moved and wound up letting it go. I may have to get another one.

I visited Tims shop just a few days ago in Signal Hill … he is still making a few USFT’s.



LD

 

[Franklink]

Awesome thread! I've been out of air gunning for a bit but I making my way back into it. I had a Hunter model that I used to shoot benchrest down in Yulee, FL, but I moved and wound up letting it go. I may have to get another one.

I visited Tims shop just a few days ago in Signal Hill … he is still making a few USFT’s.



LD

Cool to hear that he's still getting orders for them. Must still be some folks around who appreciate them for what they are. I've thus far resisted the temptation to order another one, but high power, and optimized for the .22 Monster RD.