Benjamin Marauder Regulator
- Thread starter UDABEGGER
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What you are asking for will take more than just a regulator change, but the Huma regs are a great option. I have them in all three of my Marauders.
You have to realize that you are going to be taking the air pressure behind the valve down to something like 2000 psi with a regulator - the 3000 psi will just be how high you fill the reservoir. With a regulator, the added pressure gives you "headroom" for more shots, but does nothing for power. Plus, you will only have the small amount of air in the regulator's plenum to provide power - it will refill after the shot, but too slowly to have any meaningful impact on the shot.
To get the power back up where you want it (about 34 FPE) you will also need to modify the valve and flow path to the barrel to flow more air, since you will be using lower pressure air on the shot. Think of it this way: how much power do you think you could get out of your gun if you tuned it to run best at 2000 psi? That would be a little more power than you could expect from a regulator set at that pressure (the regulator will produce a bit less due to the impact of the plenum).
You can easily achieve what want, but it will take more than just a regulator and a re-tune to get there . . .
You have to realize that you are going to be taking the air pressure behind the valve down to something like 2000 psi with a regulator - the 3000 psi will just be how high you fill the reservoir. With a regulator, the added pressure gives you "headroom" for more shots, but does nothing for power. Plus, you will only have the small amount of air in the regulator's plenum to provide power - it will refill after the shot, but too slowly to have any meaningful impact on the shot.
To get the power back up where you want it (about 34 FPE) you will also need to modify the valve and flow path to the barrel to flow more air, since you will be using lower pressure air on the shot. Think of it this way: how much power do you think you could get out of your gun if you tuned it to run best at 2000 psi? That would be a little more power than you could expect from a regulator set at that pressure (the regulator will produce a bit less due to the impact of the plenum).
You can easily achieve what want, but it will take more than just a regulator and a re-tune to get there . . .
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Agree with above. It's not a simple throw in a reg and your good to go, takes alot of extra work to get a Mrod to run good with a regulator. You'd be better off just tuning it unregulated and save the money for a AvengeX or something. If you want to spend the money and time and work to do it all then go for it. But if your just hoping adding a reg will do it then look elsewhere honestly
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To get the most out of it you can go with the Hill Valve assembly kit. I've been very happy with the setup so far. My Marauder came regulated, so I swapped the factory one for a HUMA. Total cost for both upgrades was just under $400. Then for a regulator tester, add another $80. For me it was worth the cost.
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Get the appropriate one from HUMA. As mentioned, you need to do more than just installing a reg. With the Hill kit, you will get more efficiency.
If the issue is that it is "air hog" then you would do better tuning for efficiency and maybe adding an SSG rather than a regulator. Truth be told, I often found that absolute efficiency is actually higher in guns when well tuned without a regulator vs, with a regulator at the same power level (noting that other changes are often applied to make both work well). Of course the regulated gun can run at lower pressures, which can be nice if handpumping is involved, but the absolute efficiency might not be any better (and is often worse). Higher air pressure helps efficiency.
Now, lets understand the degree of "air hogginess" involved - how many shots are you getting, and if you can share it, what does the actual shot string look like? Maybe then we can help better.
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I am struggling to adjust my 25 Armada with the same setup. What did you end up with for regulator pressure?
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I have a .22 so my reg is set @ 135bar. Hopefully someone with a .25 will speak up. You can also email Tim Hill.
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A regulator will lower the rifles power but may increase shot count and consistency at a lower power. To get the lost power back you will need to port the barrel, a larger diameter transfer port and valve work. You will probably need .161 porting throughout the flow path for a .22 and .196 for a .25. Once you have done all of that there is no going back.
A regulator will take up precious air volume decreasing your high pressure reservoir capacity significantly which is counter productive for increased shot count. You might find that using a SSG such as the one from Air Gun Revisions or similar homemade will give you the desired shot count and power without a regulator. In fact, you need to dump the factory hammer and spring arrangement with or without the addition of a regulator.
I would get the Huma regulator with the XXL plenum as an option for increased plenum volume. I am running approximately 1900 psi on my two Huma regulated .25s. I have .196 porting throughout. One rifle has a Cobra tech modded OE valve with AGR SSG and the other is a full JSAR setup with valve, SSG/TSS cap and breech assembly.
If using a stock valve or the Tim Hill (non-regulated ) valve with a regulator you will need to reduce the poppet spring rate and use a lighter hammer spring, again, preferably some variation of a SSG free flight hammer.
This is for the Huma regulated "Cobra" M-Rod and since this string I tuned the power down (increased hammer gap and reduced slightly spring tension) just a little and went to JSB Hades 26 grain pellets so now it will shoot three magazines at 48 fpe average on a nice flat string.
A regulator will take up precious air volume decreasing your high pressure reservoir capacity significantly which is counter productive for increased shot count. You might find that using a SSG such as the one from Air Gun Revisions or similar homemade will give you the desired shot count and power without a regulator. In fact, you need to dump the factory hammer and spring arrangement with or without the addition of a regulator.
I would get the Huma regulator with the XXL plenum as an option for increased plenum volume. I am running approximately 1900 psi on my two Huma regulated .25s. I have .196 porting throughout. One rifle has a Cobra tech modded OE valve with AGR SSG and the other is a full JSAR setup with valve, SSG/TSS cap and breech assembly.
If using a stock valve or the Tim Hill (non-regulated ) valve with a regulator you will need to reduce the poppet spring rate and use a lighter hammer spring, again, preferably some variation of a SSG free flight hammer.
This is for the Huma regulated "Cobra" M-Rod and since this string I tuned the power down (increased hammer gap and reduced slightly spring tension) just a little and went to JSB Hades 26 grain pellets so now it will shoot three magazines at 48 fpe average on a nice flat string.
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If he bought the full kit, everything he needed would be there, minus the HUMA reg. My gun was regulated from the factory, so I already had the larger air tube and didn't lose any volume.
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The .25 is not available regulated from Crosman. The install of a Huma regulator with standard or XXL plenum will reduce the HP air reserve to about 190cc +/- down from 215cc.
An unregulated rifle, carefully tuned, can produce more shots at similar average power than a regulated rifle because it has more HP volume and unlimited plenum. Or produce more power than regulated for fewer shots. Regulated it is a struggle to get the power back up and when accomplished the shot string is nice and flat but possibly fewer total shots than unregulated.
The M-Rod .25 uses a lot more air than the .22, regulated or unregulated, once the power (fpe) gets up into the 50s or low 60s there will be 16 shots or fewer. Or tune down into the low to mid 40s and get a lot more shots, again, with or without a regulator. The stock hammer system bounces on the valve poppet and wastes air, the most useful modification to increase shot count or more power for more shots is a SSG hammer and spring system of several variations.
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Yeah, no experience with the .25 and if I remember correctly when crosman had the custom shop, it was only the .177 and .22 that were regulated.
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Have custom built/tuned DOZENS of marauders gen 1 & 2 ( NOT the F&T model ) these past 10+ years.
*Below for a .22 cal .. as the .177 cal is a tad different
Valve throat opened to .250"
Lighter poppet spring
Transfer exit all the way to barrel at .165"
LW hammer at @ 26-30 grams.
Huma reg w/ plenum set at @ 1800 psi
* Factory hammer spring
Done you will have a rig capable of power you seek and correctly adjusted make @ 35-40 regulated shots ( 30-32 fpe tune )
Your welcome
*Below for a .22 cal .. as the .177 cal is a tad different
Valve throat opened to .250"
Lighter poppet spring
Transfer exit all the way to barrel at .165"
LW hammer at @ 26-30 grams.
Huma reg w/ plenum set at @ 1800 psi
* Factory hammer spring
Done you will have a rig capable of power you seek and correctly adjusted make @ 35-40 regulated shots ( 30-32 fpe tune )
Your welcome
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Mostly true except I get 24 shots @ 60 fpe with 190cc regged.
Port diameter has a HUGE impact on efficiency....mine is .225"
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LOL, you are a bit more advanced than me
. Though, thanks to a new TP my JSAR M-Rod is right in there on the power and shot count now that it is not wasting a good bit of air out of a leaking TP!!!!!!To mention something here, JSAR has the aluminum reservoir tubes which knock a lot of weight off of the rifle and improve balance greatly but at a very slight loss of volume. They are suitable for use with a regulator. The AGR can (possibly) custom build a hybrid steel/aluminum tube of greater capacity but the hybrid tubes cannot, repeat, cannot be used with a regulator as the ID is different from stock. My unregulated rifle with standard length hybrid tube gets as many shots at slightly more average power than my regulated JSAR M-Rod. Both need the JSB 34 grains pellets to be in their happy places. The addition of an aluminum tube caps the fill pressure at 3,000 psi, I know folks sneak some extra psi in on the standard steel tube
. Best not do that with the aluminum tubes.I ty to tune at around 5% below peak on the two regulated rifles. That results in a mini-Bell curve once off the reg and those are still useful shots off the reg.
Curious, what is your regulator pressure? I may need to toy with that again?
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He will need to match the barrel and valve port as well to the .19. The TH Teflon machined TP does work and does seal but I have found that it rarely is a perfect seal and looses some air. I did expand one with a heat gun and taper punch and then I did get a seal after about 30 shots. The Teflon port may continue to improve sealing for quite a few shots but if you take the rifle down, getting a good seal without replacing the TP with a new one might be a challenge. The TH blue port is aluminum and has a max .161 ID and it can use the standard Crosman seals. What is best, a smaller ID that seals or a large ID that sort of maybe seals sometimes?
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Never had a problem with those, and yes you need to open up the barrel only with the provided drill bit. Of course I'm speaking from experience with the .22, no mods to the breech or valve was required.
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I will agree, once you remove the TP, you should replace it with a new one. He mentioned you can reuse them if they go back exactly as they came off. I don't bother as I have plenty of spares.
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LOL, you are a bit more advanced than me
To mention something here, JSAR has the aluminum reservoir tubes which knock a lot of weight off of the rifle and improve balance greatly but at a very slight loss of volume. They are suitable for use with a regulator. The AGR can (possibly) custom build a hybrid steel/aluminum tube of greater capacity but the hybrid tubes cannot, repeat, cannot be used with a regulator as the ID is different from stock. My unregulated rifle with standard length hybrid tube gets as many shots at slightly more average power than my regulated JSAR M-Rod. Both need the JSB 34 grains pellets to be in their happy places. The addition of an aluminum tube caps the fill pressure at 3,000 psi, I know folks sneak some extra psi in on the standard steel tube
I ty to tune at around 5% below peak on the two regulated rifles. That results in a mini-Bell curve once off the reg and those are still useful shots off the reg.
Curious, what is your regulator pressure? I may need to toy with that again?
My regged gun is aluminum tube made before Jsar entered the game.
Fwiw, you've been mislead about the marauder aluminum tube max fill pressure. They can safely handle 3250 psi fills. The individual that tested these tubes to failure used the wrong calculation to determine the safe max fill pressure...and I can extensively prove this here, and have to him, he had no words...and he is more than welcome to enter this discussion or any with me civilly.
"The ASME Code provides maximum allowable stress values used in calculating a vessel’s wall thickness, which vary with temperature. In Division 1, governing design by Rules with a safety factor of 3.5, a 60,000 psi tensile strength material has a Maximum Allowable Stress Value of 17,142 psi. In Division 2, governing design by Analysis with a lower safety factor of 2.5, the same material’s maximum allowable stress becomes 24,000 psi.
Some companies insist on Division 2 standards for their pressure vessels due to more rigorous requirements, while others may opt for Division 1 or Division 2 based on cost considerations. Typically, manufacturers choose Division 1 for low-pressure vessels and Division 2 for high-pressure ones. The maximum allowable stress values for commonly used steel plates in pressure vessel fabrication are provided in the table for the normal temperature range."
I personally use a SF of 3, in between Div l and Div ll because airgun tanks are high pressure vessels.
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