Marauder vs Talon vs 850 vs RWS 48?

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zumbooruk

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Oct 9, 2016
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Planning to buy my first air rifle, looking for some advice. if all goes well, I will probably end up with more than one, but need a first one... 

What I am looking for in a gun is what I would call "fun target shooting", not hunting, not competitions (at least not yet), and a high probability to capture my teenage son's interest (and get him outside and off internet/iphone/etc), for me, that would be:

1- accuracy out of the box, if it is not accurate, it can be frustrating and no fun, but I am not looking for match accuracy, I am guessing that a gun capable of 1" groups at 50 yards would be satisfactory, or is that asking for too much??? 

2- very good trigger, but again match grade trigger is not required.

3- easy to shoot for both a teenager and and older person, i.e. lighter weight, no overly strong spring to compress each time

4- challenging enough to hold my son's interest, so I am thinking maybe a rifle which will be accurate at longer ranges to 50 yards/meters

5- ability to use both scope and iron sights (I believe that it would be easier to start and get good results with a scope, and later more challenging with iron sights)

also, rifle must be ambidextrous, since my son is left handed.

my budget is around $500-$600 for the rifle, and about $200 for a good scope (4-12x50???) with the goal to keep it under $1,000 including any other accessories, rings, ammo, targets, adapter & tank if PCP, etc

looking at some online store web sites, the selection is huge, so I need help narrowing it down...

I am not sure if I want to go PCP or spring, leaning toward PCP (but ones that can be re-filled, no disposable cartridges)

there are few rifles which caught my eye (but note that I have no idea if they "satisfy" my desirements above)

RWS/Diana model 48 (spring) heavier, well within budget, good trigger, single shot, but might not be as accurate at 50 yards (at least based on one of the store's web site), might be more difficult to master as far as recoil, artillery hold... 

Airforce Talon (pcp) lightest, more expensive, single shot, non-adjustable trigger, can get different barrels.

Benjamin Marauder (pcp) repeater, good trigger, classical looks, esp in wood.

Hammerli 850 AirMagnum (with paintball tank adapter, no disposable), cheapest, repeater, might be just good enough for my needs.

out of these, the last two are bit more appealing, and if the Hammerli 850 "good enough", with money saved it'll be easier to justify the next purchase or if son absolutely hates shooting, use money saved for a different hobby?

any comments? am I on the right t

any others I should look at?

thanks,

-z
 
You've definitely covered the spectum on your possibilities! let's run down some advantages/disadvantages: 
Diana 48 - Advantages - start shooting right away, iron sights, ambi stock and safety. (I'm a lefty, and the right side-cock is no problem with me.)
disadvantages - I think the heaviest gun in your choices, takes more time and practice to shoot well (true with all magnum power springers), harder to cock than a less powerful springer. 

Hammerli 850 - no personal experience, so I can only add that CO2 is highly temperature dependent - a big factor if your shooting will be outdoors.

Air Force - Advantages - lighter, ambidexterous, can optionally be used with CO2 (with reduced performance and temperature dependence).
Disadvantage - potential higher setup cost for HPA, no iron sights unless you get the low power gun made for 10m; Not familiar with trigger

Marauder - Advantages - accurate, good trigger, very ambi (even the bolt can be switched to the left side on the gen2 models - which is everything in current production). 
Disadvantages - heavy, no iron sights, potential higher setup cost for HPA

I might also suggest a Benjamin Discovery (or maximus, but i would prefer the Discovery's wood stock).
Advantages - light, accurate and easy to shoot, iron sights, ambi stock The bolt and trigger safety are right hand oriented, but this matters a little less with a single shot. cheaper to setup for HPA than other PCPs because of the lower fill pressure - you can do fine with an aluminum scuba tank. CO2 is also an option, with reduced performance and temperature dependence.
Disadvantages - kinda crappy trigger, some setup cost for HPA. 

If you go with a springer, you would do well to avoid the magnum springers and get something that shoots maybe 14-16fpe - good enough for 50 yards, but you'll have to work for it. You will find it to be much easier to cock and shoot. Springers are often the most ambi-friendly guns with the safety on back of the receiver; and are the most likely to have iron sights included. You may want to take a look at the Wiehrauchs. 
 
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I have most of those. Or rifles that are close to the same(tx200 instead of the Diana 48).

Of all the choices I would go with the discovery or maximus. Its not that hard to pump them up with an pcp pump. And I love wood stocks, but this time you might want to look at something you can be a little less careful with? If you click on the banner that runs across the top of AGN. And use the AGNATION code you can get a 20% to 25% discount. The Maximus Hunter or maximus starter kit is a nice pcp starter rifle and mine at 50 yards is accurate. My marauder in .22 shoots very well also. But its a 2,500-3,000lb pumping job so the Maxi or discovery is a lot more user friendly at 2,000lb pumping job?

You will want a pcp sooner than later and most of us can look back and see we could have saved money just getting one sooner? And if you do pick a springer that adds other issues like "how you hold the springer to shoot it" and "have to buy a springer rated scope". Either way have fun picking a rifle to shoot with your son.

I'll stick a link to the thread about the crosman discount.

http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/crosmanbenjamin-discount/


Edit: the Maximus does have a heavy trigger. My Marauder has a nice trigger.
 
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Thank you all.

I believe that I've narrowed down my selection to either the Benjamin Marauder or the Gamo Coyote thanks to the post above, I some how missed it (till I change my mind yet again...)

The Coyote seems to be as accurate as the Marauder, good trigger, and lighter weight.

One poster mentioned that it "demands a scuba tank"

would that also apply to the Marauder?

I am sorta leaning toward a hand pump, cheaper, no drive to town to refill, and an excuse to get bit more exercise... 

thanks for posting link to the discount for the Marauder, makes a big difference in price, so I need to weigh the price vs the lighter weight of the Coyote.

much appreciate your input

-z

 
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I just realized that of neither the Marauder (shroud spins off) nor the Coyote (silencer) can easily accommodate front sights.

so now back to taking a closer look at the AirForce Talon SS which has a rail at the front. yet trigger might not be as good as the other two... 

on the other hand, open sights might just be wishful thinking, and I might just stick with a scope...

I believe that it would be easier to start and get good results with a scope, and get him hooked, then later more challenging with iron sights

and if he does like the sport, and wants to advance, I'll purchase him a match grade rifle.

-z
 
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I'd recommend either an HW95 or HW30s, depending on how scrawny your son. If he's scrawny, like my 85 lb. 12 year-old, he'll have a hard time cocking the medium power HW95. But less power does not equal less fun. Just less range, less hold-sensitivity, and less animal-killing power. 

HW95 is medium power and will reach out to 50 yards with great accuracy. Fit & finish are also great. It comes with good iron sights, and you can upgrade to an aperture sight later, if he likes that. (I don't think he will, though)

Here's a good write-up on the HW95. I think most folks who've shot one of these would agree with most of what is written there:
Beeman R9 / HW95 – An Uber-Accurate Springer![/QUOTE]http://thebestairrifle.com/beeman-r9-hw95-uber-accurate-springer/embed/

The HW30s is kind of a smaller HW95. For target shooting, consider the HW30s a 35 yard gun, max. 10-25 yards is more comfortable. Easier to hold offhand, easier to cock and hence easier to shoot all day. Good for plinking out to 50 yards. I don't know exactly where this one falls for me, but it is definitely in my top 3 airguns. Here's my review on it, and an update:



I have a Marauder in .177, and it is awesome. Quiet, powerful, accurate, and easy (for me) to pump. It's my son's favorite gun; easy accuracy out to about 60 yards. A .22 would be accurate out to maybe 80 yards. But pumping it is too hard for my son, (he doesn't weigh enough) so when he shoots it, I'm pumping. I don't want to mess around with tanks and such either.

If you decide to go for a Marauder, also check out the Armada. It's the same action, but in a more tactical stock, which is better for shooting from a bench, and easier to attach things to. (lights, scopes, cameras, night vision equipment, lasers, etc.)

Hammerli 850... this will have some hassle, due to the CO2. You can't take it out on a cool or cold day and expect it to shoot with the same velocity (and hence same point of aim) as when you zeroed it at home. Since you're wanting to get him outside, I'd rule this out unless you live in Florida or someplace it doesn't get cold. 

RWS48 is too heavy for a first gun. It's a magnum airgun, which is for connoisseurs, and not a good first gun, unless your son is a big strong one. I have the 56TH, which is the recoilless bigger brother of the 48, and although it isn't hold-sensitive, I don't recommend it for a first gun.

Talons are ugly and loud, but accurate and adaptable.

Last but not least, let us know where you live. I think most of us would show you the ropes in person, if you're nearby.
 
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Thank you all so much,

And I thought you guys would make it easier for me :)

Instead, I am now going to research all the alternatives you gave me...

I believe that instead of starting by stating my requirements, when I don't even know what I don't know, I should have stated my motivations, and let you guide me as to what I need. 

so here we go (should I open a new subject for this "new" discussion?)

the goal is to get my son hooked on a hobby/sport, and get him away from books/internet/iphone/indoors.

I am not good at sports and neither is he, group/team sports not a good idea, and I want something I can get involved in too (I used to shoot .22 rimfire @50m when I was about his age, but was never very good...), started looking at .22 rimfire and realized that getting to the nearest ranges (40min way), cleaning guns afterwards, ammo costs, etc, that air rifles might be the best option, we live outskirts of town, about 2 acres, no worry about noise or neighbors.

knowing my son, I want something which will be easy and early success to get him motivated to continue and get better.

which is why I started looking at PCP with the understanding that I'll have to budget for a pump or a tank (and if tank, drive to down to have it refilled)

with the limited reading I've done (and no experience what so ever), I understood that spring powered rifles are more difficult to shoot well, something about the spring, double recoil and artillery hold...

but now I am not so sure that PCP should be the way to go for a first air rifle, PCP might be overkill for a first gun, and dealing with filling might be more of a hassle (or $$$) than I thought...

so now I am looking at Beeman R9 / HW95 or HW30S or RWS 34 which might be just the right starter guns?

maybe with money saved not getting a pcp tank/pump it would be a better idea to buy two guns, one for me, and one for him?

the 50 yard is a "soft" requirement, just me thinking out loud as to how to keep him interested and challenged in case he gets better fast (ever the optimist), and knowing my son, he will get bored quickly if he easily consistently put all the pellets in one hole... 

yet if he does not have an early success, i.e. gun/trigger/barrel not good/accurate enough, or if prep is "too much" (filling/pumping), he might abandon the sport 

similarly, the "desirement" for open sights, was just in case he gets so good that he gets bored with the scope and wants something more challenging, but truly if that's the case, I will purchase him a better rifle which will fit whatever competition he would want to get into, field target, 10m, 3 position, etc.

bottom line, I want early and sustained excitement... 

and once I get him hooked, then I'll come back to you guys for the next rifle.

thanks again so much, I very much appreciate your suggestions and input.

-z
 
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I have a hw50s, it's a size bigger than the hw30, but a bit moore power, could use it for pest control also if you want to, dont be affraid to put a scope on, realy fun to shoot sugarcubes at long distance with it! And it's not so much more expensive than the hw30, i think you and your son should try a springer first, if you like it, then get a pcp, with a scubatank or compressor, it is not so much fun to pump, belive me, i use to pump my at44 and had to wait for the pulse to come down alot before i could shoot! And take your son to the store or online to check the guns out before you decide what to get, and perhaps let him decide wich gun to buy
 
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Two guns are easy to use with C02, High Pressure Pump or SCBA Tank.

The Discovery and the Marauder. All can be set to run at 2000 psi or less so pumping is not a big chore with a hand pump.

Alternately they can be run on CO2 readily available from paintball fields and other sources.

The Maximus is 2000psi native and is fairly easy to hand pump as well plus very low cost!

Thurmond
 
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I don't own one, but I have shot several Marauders, the Marauder is a very good platform that you can improve as you and your son grow into the sport.
there are so many upgrades available for the Marauder that you could turn it into a good competition rifle if you want.
I would recommend a .177 gen 2, and you can find them used every now and then.
 
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I was a runt-sized non-athletic TV kid too. (I'm still runt-sized and work in the broadcast industry...go figure...) I found fun in shooting, archery and bicycling. If shooting doesn't work out, try the other two. :)

As to the rifle choice, I don't think you gave much info on how big or strong your boy is, but I'm going to assume median. I would go with a high quality mid-power springer first.

Or if you really want a PCP, go with the maximus/discovery. It's true that it takes a lot of upgrades to bring it to Marauder level, but it's considerably lighter and is still plenty accurate. If you can find a used .177 that has been tuned down around 12-14fpe you will get more shots per pump if you do pump it. This rifle will also give you the option for CO2 or for filling from the inexpensive scuba tank. Buying a used one will also possibly net you one that has a noise moderator included and an improved trigger.
 
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thank you all,

after some more reading, I am currently toying with getting two guns, for him an R7 or Diana 34 (or similar), for me Air Arms TX200 or R9 (or similar)

easier for him to cock the R7, yet he will be able to shot mine if he so desires, and we he gets bigger/stronger (or if he wants to) he can use mine.

this way we could shoot together, instead of taking turns, and I might even manage to get wife and daughter interested, and then buy even more (ever the optimist)...

-z
 
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