HW/Weihrauch Matching caliber to rifle, Weihrauch style...

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Toxylon said:
The thing is, when matching caliber to gun, springer-wise, there are no slow calibers. My .22 cal springers shoot high-BC, mid-weight lead pellets at 800 to 900 fps at the muzzle. That's as fast as any diabolo pellet should travel, when accuracy is the goal (and when is it not?).

I'm well aware of the caliber debates in the firearm world. They have very little to do with springer external ballistics, as the small springer pellet simply makes a small hole, and the big pellet makes a substantially larger hole, which isn't the case with modern firearms and live targets at all.

Sure, if you take a tiny HW30 or something, described as a junior gun in the literature, and hitch a larger-bore barrel in it, you'll end up with rainbow-reminiscent trajectories, but that is just mis-matching the caliber to gun.
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You're right on all accounts. Except negating the fire arm ballistics comparison. Ballistics is always important. Otherwise you only riterated what I wrote.

For the record, Most people don't get 800-900fps out of springers with mid weight 22 caliber lead pellets. Guns that have the power to do that are few and people that can hit anything with them are even fewer. You are truly exceptional shooter and tuner. You should be proud of that, but don't assume it's the norm or even possible for everyone. For the most part bigger caliber springers have rainbow trajectory most decent 22 springers fall under 750 fps. Likewise agree pellets shouldn't be pushed over 900 in any caliber. Your preference for 800 to 900 is a good one. I wish I could get 800 out of all of them so I pick the caliber that gets me closest to that. Most cases with my favorite springers that's

177. Fwiw my 177 HW30S have taken more squirrels than any of my 22s out of the amount of opportunities. My 785 fps 177 Hw50 is my dedicated squirrel gun. It's easier for me to carry and shoot offhand than any of the bigger guns. I had a 22 cal Hw50 which is a very popular gun and I sold it because at 600-620 fps it was harder to land in the right spot than my 710 fps HW30. I went back to the 177 30s and 50
 
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Toxylon said:
The thing is, when matching caliber to gun, springer-wise, there are no slow calibers. My .22 cal springers shoot high-BC, mid-weight lead pellets at 800 to 900 fps at the muzzle. That's as fast as any diabolo pellet should travel, when accuracy is the goal (and when is it not?).

I'm well aware of the caliber debates in the firearm world. They have very little to do with springer external ballistics, as the small springer pellet simply makes a small hole, and the big pellet makes a substantially larger hole, which isn't the case with modern firearms and live targets at all.

Sure, if you take a tiny HW30 or something, described as a junior gun in the literature, and hitch a larger-bore barrel in it, you'll end up with rainbow-reminiscent trajectories, but that is just mis-matching the caliber to gun.
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What .22 springer shoots with that kind of power? Maybe your definition of mid-weight is different than mine? 18 grain at 900 is 32 ft lbs. There isn't a Weirauch in the catalog that can do that.
 
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This is a string from my Gamo Magnum shooting 18.1 grains. M
IMG_3482.png
 
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I find that my mid-sized .22's like the R9/95 and Diana 34 seem to do pretty well at 15-16 fpe or so. Strong but still good firing cycles and still accurate.
My Cometa 400 makes 18 or so and is a little jumpy these days, but I think the spring is allowing a little piston bounce. I'd like to get to the bottom of that soon.
 
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Kragman1 said:
I find that my mid-sized .22's like the R9/95 and Diana 34 seem to do pretty well at 15-16 fpe or so. Strong but still good firing cycles and still accurate.
My Cometa 400 makes 18 or so and is a little jumpy these days, but I think the spring is allowing a little piston bounce. I'd like to get to the bottom of that soon.
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I've been opening the TP up on some the 400s to 3.2mm to take some bounce out of it. Start at 3mm and see how it feels and go from there
 
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Toxylon said:
From a velocity / trajectory point of view, the .177 cal is what it's about for the small-powerplant guns. But for every other aspect, and for every aspect in the big-powerplant guns, the .177 cal loses out, so it's a last-choice caliber for me.

Every .177 cal I have is so loud at the muzzle ("POP!") it immediately alerts outsiders / wildlife, and hurts my ears after a dozen shots or so - and hearing damage is both cumulative and permanent. Same-power level .22 cals can be almost silent in comparison ("thud").

.177 cal pellets are definitely harder to load / easier to fumble than the bigger cals. This can be a biggie in a time-restrained / low-light / high-stress situation, and a nuisance anywhere.

A .22 cal pellet makes a hole 50% bigger than a .177 cal. With body shots, the bigger cal is simply deadlier, also due to delivering all its energy into the target instead of zipping through.

The big-powerplant guns I have have nasty shot cycle characteristics in .177 cal; kicking, shaking, mech noise etc.. I have done a number of caliber changes in my springers, and every one of 'em has seen a huge improvement in the shot cycle from going bigger bore.

Of course, with the big boys it is a chore to keep velocities low enough for accuracy, unless you go at least .20 cal. And those extra-heavy .177 cal pellets are at least as expensive, and harder to get, than the normal-weight .22 cal pellets, that shoot fine in the HW80, 350 Mag, D48 etc. etc.
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I know purists disagree, but I saved this reply to cut n paste to so many other threads. Clear, articulate, spot, on and accurate. I used it today and gave you credit. Thank you! Hope you don’t mind,.
 
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For “MY SHOOTING” (all target), I prefer .177 for the HW30; HW35 and HW 50.
The HW 80/90’s really shine in .20 caliber, whereas the HW 95 is best in .177 caliber, …..but very good in a full power .20 cal.

HW 77’s & 97’s almost need to be detuned to hit the high 800’s (fps) in .177 and likely are vey good in .20 caliber.

I do not like the slower shot cycle when using .22 caliber in spring piston, Weihrauch’s, but that’s me😛.

- > .25 calibers are for Tarzan’s who also prefer to “beat their chests” or hunt.
 
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Everything Duke said above is quite true, at least in my experience.

To throw a few examples out there:

1. My stock HW30s in .177 does fairly well with all pellet weights (I never tried any 10.X pellets in it), makes noticeably more energy with light pellets (mid 8's vs around 7 fpe) and while I could see it doing well in .20 I'm not sure I'd like one in .22 caliber. Not sure that I wouldn't either, but it just seems like 12 & 14 grain pellets are a bit much for that rifle. To confuse the issue, I have a Diana 27 in .22 that is genuinely fun to shoot and I don't feel that it is underpowered. FYI, the D27 is pretty comparable to an HW30.

My Parrus in .177 should be ridiculous as a .177 - it will break the sound barrier with any 7 grain pellets, even 7.9's. Yet, it seems to be accurate with most pellet weights. The same goes for my crazy Diana 54. I first tried it with .177 FTTs and it shot very, very well.

So while I look at certain rifles and say "not in .22" or "not in .177", there are rifles that I feel do well in most any caliber. The Diana 34 and HW95 come to mind right away, but really any of the mid-range springers should be good that way.
And while there are some surprises, I feel that avoiding .22 cal probably IS better for many of the smaller rifles, and that many larger rifles really should only do well in .22 or even .25 cal.
Part of me would really like to try a Diana 48/350/460 in .25 cal BTW. I'd guess they would launch a 20 grain FTT at up to 725 and a 25.4 Exact up to 650 fps. That would probably tame them without depowering them, and be pretty enjoyable to shoot.

And speaking of hot .25's - I have not 1 but 2 Hatsan 125's in .25, both shot 20 grain FTTs right around 840/850 fps for over 30 fpe.
IMO, the 125 is NOT for .177's, but they do make 'em.....
 
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Kragman1 said:
Hi all

Since my first exposure to the HW30, HW50 and HW95 trio, I've had an almost subliminal assumption that the most effective pairings of rifle & caliber would be: HW30/.177, HW55/.20 and HW95/.22 (not that I've adhered to that myself - 😁)

But without at least having the use of all 9 combinations, all I really have is an educated guess, right?

So let's see who agrees with my premise, or who can change my mind.... 👍
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I don't have an opinion one way or the other, but I do have the three calibers in my Weirauch rifles, HW-30 in .177 caliber, HW-80 K in .20 caliber, and my HW-95 in .22 caliber, all three are great shooters, my HW-30 is strictly a fun target and plinking rifle, the other two are able to serve a variety of tasks a longer ranges and are good small game getters as well.
 
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EquivalentDelta said:
0-12fpe is .177 only
12-16fpe is .177, .20, or .22 with the nod to .20 and .22.
+16fpe is .22 or larger.
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I’ve read through this entire thread, and this is the statement I agree with the most
(from a hunters perspective).

I have a .177 12FPE that shoots a 8.44gr pellet at about 813fps. It’s a little laser beam out to 90 or 100yards, but that little 8.44gr pellet just zips through a rabbits head even at 60yards. Over penetration is a real problem with .177’s even at 12FPE (at the muzzle), so I really can’t see any benefit to having MORE then 12FPE in a .177, because you are not going to be using a .177 to shoot animals much bigger than rabbits.

I owned a .20cal which was about 18FPE (sadly don’t have it any more) beautiful blend of .177 speed/flat trajectory and .22 heavier hitting power. Wish I still had it.

A .22 at 12FPE is doing around 560fps, which is a little slow for hunting things bigger then rabbits (personal opinion).

A rifle I currently use a lot is a .22 25FPE, it hits hard all the way up to possum and feral cat size animals and I use it on everything down to rats and mice.

So I agree with EquivelantDelta and the OP, and I feel the best way to pair a gun with its caliber, should be to match its power to a caliber.
 
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