Message from JSB regarding FX pellets

One thing to consider, is that the dies wear out after a time, so brands like Air Arms that don't sell as fast as JSB, might come out "cleaner and less deformed" for a longer period of time... because their dies haven't worn out yet... they just get less use.

I've always used the AA .177 cal 10.34 and in .25 cal the 25.4 gr. because they seemed a little cleaner and the skirts seemed a little thicker and less deformed on average.. and they are less expensive... and usually in stock when JSB is out of stock.

Different lot numbers can shoot differently, no matter what the brand... that's one of the things that makes the game so fun!

Wayne

I doubt the factory dedicates dies specific to each brand...that would only further feed misinformation.
 
I think it comes down to the fact that people have no understanding of manufacturing and business. why would we if were not in that industry.
it would not be cost effective for JSB to have separate dies and separate crews for each brand. the majority of manufacturing comes down to specs. FX may want tighter tolerances (or any other brand) but for a manufacturer that will usually come down to first use of dies or more likely a shorter usage period for all dies running that brand. the cheaper brands will use the dies last before they are not usable which is why you see variations in cheaper pellets. I'm not saying this is what JSB does as I have no knowledge of their business practices. when it comes to pricing, there are many variables. FX may sell pellets 10% cheaper because they move enough product to do so, and they make money on other products. in the end its all the same, all companies will make more money.
as for china clones, the biggest thing is we look at it from a rich perspective. we think it takes money for them to clone or create tooling, but it really doesn't. casting is the cheapest form of production and machining again comes down to tolerances and material, which if you have loose requirements, can be done really cheap. The other assumption is that each company is also a manufacturer. that is rarely the case anywhere in the world. different companies will use the same facility but may be looser or tighter with required specs therefore altering the cost. also, the first company to design and manufacture will bear the high initial cost. any company after that pays less as the manufacturing facility will make more money. there's a bit that goes into it but it's not usually what people think. personally, I could care less about how a business does their thing as long as I'm happy with the product.
 
Because I was busy fielding calls, emails and texts...so I asked him to help. I've already put my office number out there for shooters to talk to Predator. That's why he was asked to help.

Joe
Cool, thanks for clarification. Personally, it's never made any difference to me. Whether JSB or FX pellets. They're ALWAYS my #1 choice & absolutely the most accurate out of my 3 guns.
 
One thing to consider, is that the dies wear out after a time, so brands like Air Arms that don't sell as fast as JSB, might come out "cleaner and less deformed" for a longer period of time... because their dies haven't worn out yet... they just get less use.

I've always used the AA .177 cal 10.34 and in .25 cal the 25.4 gr. because they seemed a little cleaner and the skirts seemed a little thicker and less deformed on average.. and they are less expensive... and usually in stock when JSB is out of stock.

Different lot numbers can shoot differently, no matter what the brand... that's one of the things that makes the game so fun!

Wayne
But, if you take the letter to mean there aren't different dies, then they all come from the same dies and wear should be equal across the three brands...
 
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Air Arms owns their own dies according to corporate. Exclusive to them. See AA email posted in other thread.

So AA owns their own dies with exclusive rights, but fx doesn't? Or? If they are brand specific dies then the claim that one pellet may not be superior to another is false...who do I believe, JSB the manufacturer or AA/ FX and their influencers.... hmm
 
I really do not understand why anyone would care what arrangement FX or anyone else has with JSB. One die two die three die four? If the projectiles are accurate and consistent the name on the label and who made them is immaterial even a moot point. The quality and cost to value ratio will be what is important. All else is fluff and buggery.
Folks love gossip and the best way to end it is to put your cards on the table. I commend JSB for taking this step.

PS. Dwarves are pretty hard workers. At least Snow White said so, but that is how rumors get started
Don’t forget the munckins and oompa loompas, all fantastic laborers!
 
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So AA owns their own dies with exclusive rights, but fx doesn't? Or? If they are brand specific dies then the claim that one pellet may not be superior to another is false...who do I believe, JSB the manufacturer or AA/ FX and their influencers.... hmm

JSB never said anything about AA pellets. The note is on FX.
 
Same as Matt in 2015...Here is what I received when I asked the question to AA last year.

Up until a few days ago, I had always thought that Air Arms pellets were simply re-branded JSB pellets sold at a higher price. I decided to send an email to Claire West (managing director of Air Arms) and find the truth. This was her response:

"Air Arms pellets are different to that of the JSB... https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/jsb-vs-air-arms-pellets-are-they-the-same.26284/
 
But there are videos of the people at JSB saying just the opposite. I believe Steve from AEAC was one of those videos where he asked this question, and was given the answer that has been posted here many times.

So either the tour guide was uninformed, lied, or didn't know and made something up.....but that is what was being told from the factory at the time.
Watch the video you recommend and actually listen to the explanation. It's quite reasonable. The perpetuation of this lie is ridiculous after digesting the info and logic. Old lies die hard
 
I happen to have at least a tin of each of each brand, so I happen to have FX 18.1gr on my desk, so I got the JSB equivalent. Here are a couple pictures of each
20230524_215024.jpg


Here is a close up:
20230524_215116.jpg


You can clearly see that the skirt is deeper on the JSB, so they are clearly different dies. I don't know what "nuance" was in the text of the letter from the OP, but the proof is in the pictures. I'll check more if, for some reason, someone doesn't believe these pictures.
 
I happen to have at least a tin of each of each brand, so I happen to have FX 18.1gr on my desk, so I got the JSB equivalent. Here are a couple pictures of each


Here is a close up:


You can clearly see that the skirt is deeper on the JSB, so they are clearly different dies. I don't know what "nuance" was in the text of the letter from the OP, but the proof is in the pictures. I'll check more if, for some reason, someone doesn't believe these pictures.
Can't really go by skirt dimensions. JSB changes the dies all the dang time. These are from two different tins of JSB .22 RS pellets, purchased a couple years apart. Both tins were JSB labeled.
IMG_20190821_090425.jpg
 
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Thanks for the input @Franklink !

That is interesting to see the difference. Are the "darker ones" one batch, or how can you tell them apart?

So I got my microscope out for this discussion. I took two pictures of each, one at the bottom of the skirt, and one of the skirt itself. Here are the FX pellets:
2352501237643.jpg

235250148330.jpg


Here are the JSB, same order:
2352501318763.jpg

2352501434907.jpg


I still think that it is obvious the difference in the two. The JSB is deeper, so my point of focus is lower, and the size of the "flat spot" is smaller indicating that it is deeper in the head. You can even see "tooling marks" on the FX pellet that aren't as noticeable in the JSB.

I am really only bringing this up because I always painstakingly test all my barrels for what pellet it likes, and I have one that clearly prefers the FX over the JSB in the same weight. I shoot sub 1/2" at 50 Yards with the FX, and can do good to get below an inch with JSB with all other things being equal. The BC of the FX is higher than the JSB. I just don't see how it is possible that these are cast from the same die.
 
I happen to have at least a tin of each of each brand, so I happen to have FX 18.1gr on my desk, so I got the JSB equivalent. Here are a couple pictures of each
View attachment 359127

Here is a close up:
View attachment 359128

You can clearly see that the skirt is deeper on the JSB, so they are clearly different dies. I don't know what "nuance" was in the text of the letter from the OP, but the proof is in the pictures. I'll check more if, for some reason, someone doesn't believe these pictures.
If you look hard and long enough, you will find FX pellets that look like the JSB'S and vice versa.
The differences are the difference between 2 batches.
 
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In the name of "fun" I tested a few more under the microscope. Here are the 15.89gr (Same story, FX on the left and JSB on the right):
23525212332169.jpg


Here is the FX:
23525212534888.jpg

23525212549432.jpg


Here is the JSB:
2352521269768.jpg

23525212621385.jpg


Obviously, the FX 25.4gr pellets are meant to copy the Monster Redesigned. Here is the regular JSB Monster:
2352521298600.jpg


So I went back to the pellet shelf and found the Redesigned. Here they are:
2352521312640.jpg


Here is a close up of the FX pellets
23525213158775.jpg

23525213212314.jpg


Here are the 24.39gr Redesigned JSB pellets
2352521322532.jpg

2352521323733.jpg


These look similar enough that I may have to concede about the difference that I saw in the 18.1gr pellets. Obviously they were made from a different die, but perhaps there is so little QC when making the dies that you can have an insane variance like this. I have never dealt with tolerances like this, so I am obviously jaded. During one of AEACs interviews with Lauren Parsons, she said that when she finds that there is a pellet that her gun likes, she will buy as many sleeves of that batch as possible. I now understand the logic in that.

Happy (and accurate) shooting!

SkeeterHawk!
 
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As others have said and even illustrated, there are easily visible differences between AA, FX, and JSB pellets. I often have a few pellets that didn't get in one of my sorted piles and it's easy to pick them up, take a look, and know which is which.

They each have easily identified visual differences from every viewpoint but the most easily identified difference is from the rear. They weigh out differently. They all perform excellently... but one either does better with my guns or some unexplainable influence has produced better results that has been consistent for years.

The various forums all contain the same controversy with the same variety of opinions. I'll keep letting reality make up my own mind.