Moderator, suppressor rules.

[razerface]

Not real ? Shoot an airgun with and without one, tell me it’s “not real”.

I have PB and airgun moderators. Fairly certain if I was able to screw one onto my 22LR it would bulge it like a whiskey barrel.

I guess the “not real” comment went over your head? Just referring to the difference of suppressor needing a tax stamp and one not needing a stamp.
It is interesting you said that an airgun suppressor would bulge from shooting it on a 22 LR. Are they that fragile? I had assumed they would be made out of metal since they can run the same velocities as a powder burner they would have to be the same strength. Did I assume wrong? I have never held one in my hand, so I do not know.

 

[razerface]

DonnyFL has “for airgun use only” printed on them.

Thanks. I searched and found those and I see that written on them. I don’t think that is a good defense though if problems arise, as it would be easy to add those words to any powder burner suppressor. They do have different threads, which is good!

 

[AlanMcD]

Some airgun moderators have "Airgun use only" (or similar) on them, but not all - I have some that do not say that.

The majority of airgun moderators have partial or even fully plastic construction, and some have at least lightly flammable dampening materials in them. They would not hold up to the blast/heat of a PB discharge. While to us they are clearly intended for use only on an airgun, that would not matter one bit to the government if used on a PB - longevity of the devices is of no concern in the regulation; it even is worded such that anything intentional that reduces the sound level by even 1 dB for only one shot qualifies as a firearm suppressor. As somebody once said, jamming a potato on the end of the barrel of a PB is illegal . . .

That said, you are in a situation where you have legal firearm suppressors already, and from a legal defensive situation that is great - if the two types can't be cross mounted in your combined "arsenal" you could rationally prove in court that you had no intent to use them illegally. But that does not guarantee that an agent won't put you in a situation where you have to make that defense, no matter how likely you are to prevail - they are all different people. I think the person who has both threaded PBs and airguns and only has non-tax stamped airgun moderators would be at far greater risk, and that is probably a lot of people.

One thing you could do is something that a lot of airgun shops were doing years ago here - glue the moderator onto the airgun so that it can't be removed without destroying it. That would make it "part of the airgun" and thus unable to be removed and put on one of your firearms even if it would have fit before. Not ideal, but many of us have airguns set up this way (or had in the past).

 

[OldSpook]

It should work that way, but it doesn’t in real life. The A.T.F. makes up their rules as they go along, even though they are NOT the section of the gov’t elected to make the laws.

That is the first I have heard that they will be inscribed with airgun use only or similar, but that is the type info that I am investigating. Thank you. That would definitely help. I am not making a stink about it. I am looking for info to cover my ass as I own Suppressors already. Being quiet about it until it goes bad is not the solution I am looking for.

Nobody INCLUDING the Agency has said they should be inscribed with a notice. That is something proactive some makers are doing to establish intent. There is no requirement to do it.

 

[lbc_PSI]

I looked for a sticky but did not find. I am used to paying the gov’t a fee and filling out paperwork to own firearms suppressors for powder burners. I am seeing in the airgun community that this is not so? You guys just buy and install?

What is the difference? What would happen to me if i have papered suppressors, and also airgun suppressors in my possession. The Alphabet org could claim i had them to install on my powder rifles? I need educated before i own one of these. Is there a resource here?

Since your profile states you are from Ohio, the first thing I would do is familiarize yourself with the laws in your state.

OH considers airguns as “firearms” so knowing that you have your answer.

Obviously, the OH law classifying airguns as firearms runs afoul of the supremacy clause in the Constitution (my opinion) but that won’t matter much if you don’t have a license for your airgun moderator that is not a firearm for the airgun that is considered a firearm. Confused

 

[razerface]

Since your profile states you are from Ohio, the first thing I would do is familiarize yourself with the laws in your state.

OH considers airguns as “firearms” so knowing that you have your answer.

Obviously, the OH law classifying airguns as firearms runs afoul of the supremacy clause in the Constitution (my opinion) but that won’t matter much if you don’t have a license for your airgun moderator that is not a firearm for the airgun that is considered a firearm. Confused

I am familiar. Ohio does not classify air guns as firearms. They may be purchased all “over the counter” with no paperwork or ffl as firearms require. There are some cities in Ohio that have laws against carrying them in the city limits and those same laws cover, throwing rocks, slingshots, and any projectile. Those laws are probably what you have read on the Internet.

 

[TheBeardedGunsmith]

Just remember when it comes to the federal judicial system, you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

 

[OldSpook]

Just remember when it comes to the federal judicial system, you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

Which is precisely why we are where we are today.

 

[Ta-Ta Toothie]

Just remember when it comes to the federal judicial system, you might beat the rap, but you won't beat the ride.

 

[TheBeardedGunsmith]

Which is precisely why we are where we are today.

You won't get an argument out of me on that. I agree, but they have the muscle.

 

[OldSpook]

You won't get an argument out of me on that. I agree, but they have the muscle.

Yes they do and we have a ruling which the agency has apparently decided to respect. It's linked above in the thread.

We've been waiting more than a year now for information about what went down with DFL and that in itself suggests the plea agreement ( if there was one) contains a nondisclosure... If there wasn't one, why the silence?

We are the least part of the agencies worries unless we do something just plain stupid.

 

[TheBeardedGunsmith]

Yes they do and we have a ruling which the agency has apparently decided to respect. It's linked above in the thread.

We've been waiting more than a year now for information about what went down with DFL and that in itself suggests the plea agreement ( if there was one) contains a nondisclosure... If there wasn't one, why the silence?

We are the least part of the agencies worries unless we do something just plain stupid.

Apparently somebody was caught using an airgun moderator on a PB with an adapter and that's why they closed down DonnyFL. So that person likely ruined it for everyone. The alphabet people have no issue stretching intent to get their way.

 

[BlackICE]

Donny made is moderators too strong. That's not relevant from a government viewpoint, however it would discourage a sane owner from trying to use one that is likely to blow apart causing self injury while also not being very effective in suppression.

 

[OldSpook]

Donny made is moderators too strong. That's not relevant from a government viewpoint, however it would discourage a sane owner from trying to use one that is likely to blow apart causing self injury while also not being very effective in suppression.

I don't think that is correct. The ruling is clear INTENTION is the criteria which defines an air gun silencer nothing else. Sure it is a good idea to demonstrate your intentions with labels, etc. But the ruling is clear. The guy who sold the moderator didn't even have the right to own firearms when they charged the case and the appeal was never challenged by the agency.

 

[OldSpook]

Apparently somebody was caught using an airgun moderator on a PB with an adapter and that's why they closed down DonnyFL. So that person likely ruined it for everyone. The alphabet people have no issue stretching intent to get their way.

Before I would believe that I'd have to read the case. If you have a link I'd really appreciate it. The judges language in the appeal is clear. If Donny had knowledge that something like that was going on they would have had a case. If he didn't and he was making it clear to his end users there was no justification for shutting him down.

Again if you have a source for that information I'd appreciate a link to it.

 

[BlackICE]

I don't think that is correct. The ruling is clear INTENTION is the criteria which defines an air gun silencer nothing else. Sure it is a good idea to demonstrate your intentions with labels, etc. But the ruling is clear. The guy who sold the moderator didn't even have the right to own firearms when they charged the case and the appeal was never challenged by the agency.

Intention in the eyes of the prosecutor and then the jury if you get that far. That's a nebulous definition. How about all those fuel filters sold on Alibaba? Clearly they are intended to filter Fuel and clearly stated and not to be used as silencers. It wouldn't be the first time that trumped up charges are made to make an example out of people that have no real merit. In the end of the day it still cost you thousands of dollars to defend yourself.

 

[OldSpook]

Intention in the eyes of the prosecutor and then the jury if you get that far. That's a nebulous definition. How about all those fuel filters sold on Alibaba? Clearly they are intended to filter Fuel and clearly stated and not to be used as silencers. It wouldn't be the first time that trumped up charges are made to make an example out of people that have no real merit. In the end of the day it still cost you thousands of dollars to defend yourself.

Okay so you didn't read the court case and you have an opinion.

I'm really glad that you don't speak for the agency.

You want to know what the current law says? Read the appeal. You can't be arsed.to read the appeal and you refuse to believe the evidence in front of your eyes?

Every other vendor of air gun silencers in the United States is happily sailing along building and selling air gun silencers. Nobody is bothering them.

Everybody has an opinion. But only some people have informed opinions. Your opinion appears to be informed by paranoia.

The intention of the purveyors of those "oil filters" is precisely what got them into trouble.

If you're afraid of the government, then by all means pack up all your air gun silencers and send them to me so that I can test them. I will pay 10 cents on the dollar.

 

[BlackICE]

Laws are only selectively enforced as some groups can riot loot and commit arson without any prosecution, other group can get maximum penalties for much lessor offenses. Marijuana is still illegal on in all 50 states by federal law yet many states ignore the fed law no prosecution. Yes many people are selling moderators for air guns and it is consider legal today. That doesn't preclude an over jealous prosecutor from bring charges that may or may not stick in the long run. Many current examples of how the law is interpreted in select cases and charges brought that any rational non-bias person would say is absurd. Yet it happens! As some other point out, if you possess a moderator that is exclusively used for airguns but can be attached to a PB for one time use that would be blown to bit afterward. If it attenuates the noise of the PB just once and a DA for some unknown reason wants to get you, charges may be pressed on having an unregistered silencer.

I'm not against the sale or use of moderators on airguns, only I think it is prudent for normal folks to keep a low profile.

I wise man once said "only the paranoid survive." Andy Grove.

"May you live in interesting times." Frederic R. Coudert.

 

[OldSpook]

Laws are only selectively enforced as some groups can riot loot and commit arson without any prosecution, other group can get maximum penalties for much lessor offenses. Marijuana is still illegal on in all 50 states by federal law yet many states ignore the fed law no prosecution. Yes many people are selling moderators for air guns and it is consider legal today. That doesn't preclude an over jealous prosecutor from bring charges that may or may not stick in the long run. Many current examples of how the law is interpreted in select cases and charges brought that any rational non-bias person would say is absurd. Yet it happens! As some other point out, if you possess a moderator that is exclusively used for airguns but can be attached to a PB for one time use that would be blown to bit afterward. If it attenuates the noise of the PB just once and a DA for some unknown reason wants to get you, charges may be pressed on having an unregistered silencer.

Take it to Twitter ..

I'm not against the sale or use of moderators on airguns, only I think it is prudent for normal folks to keep a low profile.

I'm glad the patriots didn't observe that rule.

I wise man once said "only the paranoid survive." Andy Grove.

That's not wisdom. That is cowardice.

"May you live in interesting times." Frederic R. Coudert.

That might have been plagiarized by Coudert but the Koreans have used it as a curse for 5000 years.

 

[DesertSilver]

If you have tax stamp suppressors get an adapter and use them on your airgun. It can't be illegal to use a legal suppressor on a airgun. After all, all they're after is the tax money.