Moderators on Benchrest Rifles

[Raydee38]

I see a lot of guys running moderators on their benchrest rifles, so I decided to give them a try on my RAW 25 cal. After trying 4 different moderators I have come to the conclusion that a moderator does not belong on my RAW if I want it to shoot like it should. All of the ones I tried either caused flyers, POI shift or in one case a big jump in FPS. I fought for the better part of a month trying to get my rifle to group at 50 yards and finally decided to start over with pellet and tuner testing without any moderator. Right off the bat everything started grouping better and with some tuning I am sure I will get back to where the rifle should be shooting. I am just curious if others have had this same experience?

 

[Firewalker]

It very much depends on multiple variables for me. A short barrel with a light mod seems to make little difference but a long barrel with a big mod makes a big difference.

A "difference" isn't necessarily a bad thing for me, I leave my guns assembled in a rack, pull them to shoot and put them back, no mod removal.

A good case is my 700mm Notos with an 8-1/2" moderator. It did change my POI but my groupings closed up a bit with less fliers from the main group.

In my case, I believe I interrupted the normal harmonics with the weight on the end allowing the barrel to sit still longer before moving.

The other aspect is one of fitment. If near perfect alignment is not realized on your gun, the air and pellet proximity to the baffles will influence the flight of your pellet so check for clipping and solve that first.

 

[Raider03]

I see a lot of guys running moderators on their benchrest rifles, so I decided to give them a try on my RAW 25 cal. After trying 4 different moderators I have come to the conclusion that a moderator does not belong on my RAW if I want it to shoot like it should. All of the ones I tried either caused flyers, POI shift or in one case a big jump in FPS. I fought for the better part of a month trying to get my rifle to group at 50 yards and finally decided to start over with pellet and tuner testing without any moderator. Right off the bat everything started grouping better and with some tuning I am sure I will get back to where the rifle should be shooting. I am just curious if others have had this same experience?

Hi, which moderators did you try?

 

[DennisB]

RAW BM 500X with modulator FLYERS
NO modulator No flyers
With out mod shoots as Martin built it
Dennis

 

[Raydee38]

RAW BM 500X with modulator FLYERS
NO modulator No flyers
With out mod shoots as Martin built it
Dennis

Def feeling the same way now.

 

[thomasair]

I see a lot of guys running moderators on their benchrest rifles, so I decided to give them a try on my RAW 25 cal. After trying 4 different moderators I have come to the conclusion that a moderator does not belong on my RAW if I want it to shoot like it should. All of the ones I tried either caused flyers, POI shift or in one case a big jump in FPS. I fought for the better part of a month trying to get my rifle to group at 50 yards and finally decided to start over with pellet and tuner testing without any moderator. Right off the bat everything started grouping better and with some tuning I am sure I will get back to where the rifle should be shooting. I am just curious if others have had this same experience?

The word Benchrest means a lot of different things depending on who you ask. To many it simply means a regular rifle shot from a bench and using support.

You might want to clarify your definition of it so those with similar understanding of the word might reply.

If you are referring to Benchrest competition, then the actual genre makes a big difference. 25 and 50 y/m BR is miles away from 100y BR in equipment used....and use of suppressors.

You won't find too many suppressors on 25 and 50m BR competition rifies at the top levels. If any at all.

I can get a rifle to shoot well with a suppressor....just not quite as well as without. This is for 25 and 50 competition. Most wouldn't be able to see the difference at 100 because it gets lost in environmental variables and other things.

Mike

 

[Raider03]

The word Benchrest means a lot of different things depending on who you ask. To many it simply means a regular rifle shot from a bench and using support.

You might want to clarify your definition of it so those with similar understanding of the word might reply.

If you are referring to Benchrest competition, then the actual genre makes a big difference. 25 and 50 y/m BR is miles away from 100y BR in equipment used....and use of suppressors.

You won't find too many suppressors on 25 and 50m BR competition rifies at the top levels. If any at all.

I can get a rifle to shoot well with a suppressor....just not quite as well as without. This is for 25 and 50 competition. Most wouldn't be able to see the difference at 100 because it gets lost in environmental variables and other things.

Mike

What hardware factors contribute the most to 100yard accuracy when shooting pellets?

 

[XSUltimate]

A bit of a loaded question but I can offer what I feel are largest contributor, but it is tough. There are undoubtedly many factors all interrelated, but I would venture to say wind flags would be the largest single hardware contributor for 100 yds. IMHO then shooting bench. Followed by barrel crown, amount of choke, regulator (internal/external), twist rate/to specific pellet, trigger tune, scope and mounts, rests being used, along with many, many more pieces of hardware etc...
Thx
Dan

 

[Raider03]

A bit of a loaded question but I can offer what I feel are largest contributor, but it is tough. There are undoubtedly many factors all interrelated, but I would venture to say wind flags would be the largest single hardware contributor for 100 yds. IMHO then shooting bench. Followed by barrel crown, amount of choke, regulator (internal/external), twist rate/to specific pellet, trigger tune, scope and mounts, rests being used, along with many, many more pieces of hardware etc...
Thx
Dan

Thank you for your reply. I like your approach, focusing on the largest contributors first. I not looking start a controversy, just a reasonable exchange.

 

[elh0102]

A moderator is simply another variable that has to be evaluated. With or without, combined with all other variables in a specific application, results will vary greatly. When I was active in rimfire BR, tuners were just becoming widely used. Since RF ammo varies so much, I found it of value in allowing the use of some ammo that might not make the cut without it. I'm not active in air rifle BR, but my guess is, moderators, as a tuning device, will not be as generally valuable as in RF, simply because you don't have the same degree of ammo variation. But every barrel is different, and it just needs to be tested.

 

[Centercut]

If I’m not mistaken, the recent world record pellet score of 240-8x at 100Y was shot with a large DonnyFL moderator on a .30 Karma Red Panda. Seemed to be fairly accurate.

 

[TargetOH]

I didn’t know anyone was keeping track of Airgun BR world records at competitions. 240 10X at 100 yards was accomplished last year at FSA. Here’s the match report. Also with a moderator.

https://www.fairfieldsportsmen.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/BR-FSA-Match-Report-20230715.pdf

 

[Centercut]

I didn’t know anyone was keeping track of Airgun BR world records at competitions. 240 10X at 100 yards was accomplished last year at FSA. Here’s the match report. Also with a moderator.

https://www.fairfieldsportsmen.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/BR-FSA-Match-Report-20230715.pdf

Only repeating what I heard Justin Jacobsen say at the RMAC awards ceremony. Thats the highest score of any "major" (EBR, RMAC, PAC) for sure... Perhaps he didn't know about the local events? Doesn't the ?ASA? keep track of this? Your cards are the same as RMAC and PAC I assume? So slightly larger than EBR cards but close... I like the three-card format.
Were any of your shooters at RMAC, and how did they do?

 

[jps2486]

Moderators aren't necessary for competition shooting. If they don't work on your rifle, don't use it. What's a little noise among friends.

 

[Loufish]

... get my rifle to group at 50 yards and finally decided to start over with pellet and tuner testing without any moderator. Right off the bat everything started grouping better and with some tuning I am sure I will get back to where the rifle should be shooting. I am just curious if others have had this same experience?

Ray, I can see you are talking about real benchrest at 50 yards and not shooting from 'on top of a bench.'
Of the real benchrest competitors I know, many of them multiple World/National Champs, none of them use a moderator.
I wanted one but MikeN said, "why would you want to make your rifle less accurate"
Imagine what that noodle of high pressure air behind your tight pellet is doing inside the can and just outside the can before the pellet exits.
But, if it works for you that's good too.

Some say this is how you fix an FX.

 

[Raydee38]

Ray, I can see you are talking about real benchrest at 50 yards and not shooting from 'on top of a bench.'
Of the real benchrest competitors I know, many of them multiple World/National Champs, none of them use a moderator.
I wanted one but MikeN said, "why would you want to make your rifle less accurate"
Imagine what that noodle of high pressure air behind your tight pellet is doing inside the can and just outside the can before the pellet exits.
But, if it works for you that's good too.

Some say this is how you fix an FX.
View attachment 475168

Lou,

My goal was to be able to convince the club officers at my two local ranges that the air rifles are much quieter than rimfire rifles with hopes of being able to practice earlier in the morning. Our ranges only allow you to start shooting at 10am and 12am on Sundays. While the mod did lower the DB considerably it also ruined my groups so even for practice it's basically a waste of time.

 

[TargetOH]

Only repeating what I heard Justin Jacobsen say at the RMAC awards ceremony. Thats the highest score of any "major" (EBR, RMAC, PAC) for sure... Perhaps he didn't know about the local events? Doesn't the ?ASA? keep track of this? Your cards are the same as RMAC and PAC I assume? So slightly larger than EBR cards but close... I like the three-card format.
Were any of your shooters at RMAC, and how did they do?

Makes sense that Justin hasn't heard of us. After all, we're on the opposite side of the country and our events typically only attract 12-17 participants. And other than the big(er) 3-4 competitions, I'm not sure I could name another club regularly doing 100-yard benchrest matches. The ASA, other than providing the rules and target dimensions, doesn't keep track of any results. Our ASA cards are the same as the PAC, and I've heard, but not been able to confirm, that it matches RMAC. I wish someone had a table listing the ring sizes everyone uses so we can compare. Thinking about that, it would make more sense to unite 100-yard BR under a single organization and standardize the targets.

We have only a few FSA members that participate in airgun events (the club is primarily trap and skeet). Non-members make up the majority of our participants. We do draw many non-members from all over OH, KY, IN, WV and PA. And sometimes from as far away as Atlanta, GA. The only FSA member to go to RMAC (or any of the big matches) was Ryan Spanagel (previous years). Some of our regulars, Joe Polanco, Tim Swan and Robert Steele, were at RMAC this year. We've had the Gardner's and Luke Sowinski from Skout come over from PA for at least one match. And Jerry Kornfield has come over from PA twice.

 

[Centercut]

Makes sense that Justin hasn't heard of us. After all, we're on the opposite side of the country and our events typically only attract 12-17 participants. And other than the big(er) 3-4 competitions, I'm not sure I could name another club regularly doing 100-yard benchrest matches. The ASA, other than providing the rules and target dimensions, doesn't keep track of any results. Our ASA cards are the same as the PAC, and I've heard, but not been able to confirm, that it matches RMAC. I wish someone had a table listing the ring sizes everyone uses so we can compare. Thinking about that, it would make more sense to unite 100-yard BR under a single organization and standardize the targets.

We have only a few FSA members that participate in airgun events (the club is primarily trap and skeet). Non-members make up the majority of our participants. We do draw many non-members from all over OH, KY, IN, WV and PA. And sometimes from as far away as Atlanta, GA. The only FSA member to go to RMAC (or any of the big matches) was Ryan Spanagel (previous years). Some of our regulars, Joe Polanco, Tim Swan and Robert Steele, were at RMAC this year. We've had the Gardner's and Luke Sowinski from Skout come over from PA for at least one match. And Jerry Kornfield has come over from PA twice.

Thanks. Other than practice, there are no 100Y BR matches near San Diego. Sounds great to have a monthly 3 card match. I saw all the guys you mentioned at RMAC. Luke did well.