Monetizing FT Nationals(they f#$%ed up)

[Guest]

The traditional stance of AAFTA has been to keep the sport pure and inclusive and affordable(that jeanie is out of the bottle already) by not having money prizes at Nationals. I learned this weekend that at this years nat's at Rio Salado in Phoenix will be offering cash prizes in four combined classes, not the six that are being shot for official score.

The money issue isn't so much of a problem with me other than AAFTA's apparent two faced nature when it comes to their stance of rules, guidelines and the future of the sport.

How these prizes are being handed out is the issue. There are six classes. WFTF(world field target rules) separated by power plant type, spring piston and pcp shooting up to 12fpe. Open class is 20fpe limit with stability aids allowed that the other classes don't get to use(pay attention here, it's an important distinction that will be evident soon). This class is also separated by power plant between spring piston and pcp. The last class in Hunter, again up to 20fpe with shooting aids and restrictions the other classes aren't allowed. Also separated by spring piston and pcp.

The structure for class prizes goes like this:
Hunter PCP/Spring Piston
WFTF PCP
Open PCP
WFTF/OPEN Spring Piston

You may be wondering what the problem with this is. First to combine Classes with different power plants(Hunter) guaranties that those shooting springer have no chance of winning any money. By combining WFTF and OPEN spring piston while keeping the power plants the same you have removed the WFTF shooters from the prize pool. Not only does Open class get to shoot at a higher power, but the use of thigh rests and a harness gives that class a distinct, and except for maybe on or two WFTF spring piston shooters in the nation a chance at the prize money.

Of course combining classes that have low attendance has always been used, the timing here is the middle finger to those shooting in the combined classes. The email went out two weeks before the event. While it may seem simple enough for those in the combined class to choose to shoot the more advantageous platform, most don't have the equipment, let alone the time to get another rig ready and vetted in the next 12 days.

This is another example of AAFTA's mismanagement of Nationals and general disorganization. I understand it's a volunteer organization, but it is taking money from clubs and individual shooters to Manage the sport in the US and support/manage the Nationals event. You dropped the ball again and sooner than later someone else is going to pick it back up before you.

Edit: Class consolidation corrections below.

 

[Regal_US]

John, I'm sympathetic to your views, but I suspect that the very large majority of AGN subscribers are not interested in AAFTA politics, and don't care about FT events. I'd love to be wrong about the latter, but I'm not optimistic. I agree that lumping spring piston and PCP is absurd in a competitive event.

 

[Scotchmo]

"John_in_Ma"...
How these prizes are being handed out is the issue. There are six classes. WFTF(world field target rules) separated by power plant type, spring piston and pcp shooting up to 12fpe. Open class is 20fpe limit with stability aids allowed that the other classes don't get to use(pay attention here, it's an important distinction that will be evident soon). This class is also separated by power plant between spring piston and pcp. The last class in Hunter, again up to 20fpe with shooting aids and restrictions the other classes aren't allowed. Also separated by spring piston and pcp.

The structure for class prizes goes like this:
Hunter PCP/Spring Piston
WFTF PCP
Open PCP
WFTF/OPEN Spring Piston

You may be wondering what the problem with this is. First to combine Classes with different power plants(Hunter) guaranties that those shooting springer have no chance of winning any money. By combining WFTF and OPEN spring piston while keeping the power plants the same you have removed the WFTF shooters from the prize pool. Not only does Open class get to shoot at a higher power, but the use of thigh rests and a harness gives that class a distinct, and except for maybe on or two WFTF spring piston shooters in the nation a chance at the prize money.
...

You are mistaken on the cash prize classes

Here is what they said:

WFTF PCP Winners:
1st $400
2nd $200
3rd $100

Hunter PCP Winners:
1st $400
2nd $200
3rd $100

Open PCP Winners:
1st $400
2nd $200
3rd $100

Spring Piston Winners: (Top three of all classes combined)
1st $400
2nd $200
3rd $100

Pistol Winners: (Top three of the two classes combined)
1st $400
2nd $200
3rd $100

 

[Guest]

Then I stand corrected. Thank you Scott. It doesn't change anything.

The FT forum will have to find a new place to live once network54 kicks the bucket.

 

[Guest]

"Regal_US"John, I'm sympathetic to your views, but I suspect that the very large majority of AGN subscribers are not interested in AAFTA politics, and don't care about FT events. I'd love to be wrong about the latter, but I'm not optimistic. I agree that lumping spring piston and PCP is absurd in a competitive event.

I don't know about the rest, but I care very much about FT competition and events.

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

 Still just shoot for fun.
Always thought $$/ rifles/scopes/other should go to the lowest score of a regular shooter. A sco0pe that ranged WOULD up my score, doesn't matter tho.

FT rocks!

Sure we're old school by most standards, trying to learn to use .177 and even down to 12fpe. which is nothing like todays airgunner wanting a firearms substitute that they don't have to learn & think to shoot. $$$ might ( ? ) draw in more people??????

I am happy with my little trophy and even my little paper awards.

Comradery and improving my shooting skills are enough "reward" for me.

John

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Was going to edit but don't like to.

Just a quick look at the AAFTA page ( and linking) I found
"Q: Are there cash prizes?A: NO! Airguns of Arizona (The Main Match Sponsor) has been kind enough to donate gift certificates to the winners. We are grateful for their incredible support of this event! See the other pages for the amounts."

So it's not the BOG of AAFTA.

At the Nationals and World's I attended there were no cahs prizes, just trophy's but we did have auctions to defray costs , dealer's and importers Tyler (sp) from PA passing out goodies at just any ole match.
And just to me, IF those "donating" prizes want to attach a condition, 1st place, ugliest, other, that's okay. At least they are paying attention to Field Target shooting.


John

 

[Guest]

You are correct. Though it does put the next venue in a bit of a bind if some sort of prize isn't offered at the next nat's. It sets a precedence that, after an email tho the BOG, won't be sanctioned in the future.

 

[CampFussell]

"AirGunShooter"

"Regal_US"John, I'm sympathetic to your views, but I suspect that the very large majority of AGN subscribers are not interested in AAFTA politics, and don't care about FT events. I'd love to be wrong about the latter, but I'm not optimistic. I agree that lumping spring piston and PCP is absurd in a competitive event.

I don't know about the rest, but I care very much about FT competition and events.

I'm with ya Airgunshooter. I care about FT as well and John put his post under the right heading as "FT" is the first abbreviation under the Target Shooting category. I think the FT page over on the yellow will eventually swing this way? Maybe one day FT will get it's own category over here on AGN when that happens ;-)

Jimmy

 

[gonzav71]

How about doing raffle prizes for the bottom third or half of all of the shooters grouped together? 
​I do not mind prizes for the top shooters. it's the average shooter shooting for fun at the nationals I am concerned about. I think raffle prizes can offset the money earned by only the best shooters.

 

[Guest]

I think if prize money is offered then those attending should have the choice to pay into it or not. If you want to win the money, pay in, if not, don't pay. Once a pot is established then you can divide it by class. The percentage of shooters in each class determines the size of the winnings. If you have 1-3 shooters in a class only 1st gets a prize. Up to 5 and 1 and 2 get a prize. Up to ten and 1,2, and 3 get a prize. Simple and easy and no one gets left out that wants to win money.

 

[gonzav71]

In archery, they have amateurs and pro classes. Pay for a trophy or if you think you are better than the average shooter pay extra for money prize.

 

[Regal_US]

"AirGunShooter"

"Regal_US"John, I'm sympathetic to your views, but I suspect that the very large majority of AGN subscribers are not interested in AAFTA politics, and don't care about FT events. I'd love to be wrong about the latter, but I'm not optimistic. I agree that lumping spring piston and PCP is absurd in a competitive event.

I don't know about the rest, but I care very much about FT competition and events.

Don't get me wrong: I also care very much about FT and would love to see more action here (and not just a transfer of posts from the Yellow forum), and even a dedicated FT page on AGN. It took a while for anybody to respond to the initial post, which says something either about average AGN reader lack of interest in FT, or lack of interest in AAFTA politics. For myself I'm happy to shoot for fun, and don't like the idea of $ prizes etc, unless the funds can be fed back into the sport, or individual clubs.

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

"average AGN reader lack of interest in FT" how about "average modern airgiunner" ?

Love FT, the most fun you can have legally, got me through Cancer, THE finest people I ( Wife and I ) have met in years! 
Once upon a time I was a decent shot. 40 years ago Standing 100 yard small bore I did okay. YEARS go by and, well an ok shot.
Shot some FT at 20fpe, 12fpe, ranging, holdover, used a duplex reticule, ....... Still not as good as I once was but man FT WILL force you to learn to shoot, esp. say 12fpe and a duplex scope, good clean fun. Not to mention free tips, helpfull ideas, tunes, deals on gear, have fired just about every airgun from a CR Quest to a GC2 , Daystae to DAQ and Benjamin pistol .......
SPO many reason to like/shoot FT.

It seems to me , these days, most want an airgun that is a fire arm substitute. they want MORE power, NEED a clip, .......
And "I" have always felt airguns are for, fun, to help improve shooting skills and such as that. 
Shot placement is everything no matter the gear or game ( FT or Wild or ... ) and FT teaches that in the most pleasant inviorment.

John

 

[c_m_shooter]

"spysir""average AGN reader lack of interest in FT" how about "average modern airgiunner" ?

Love FT, the most fun you can have legally, got me through Cancer, THE finest people I ( Wife and I ) have met in years! 
Once upon a time I was a decent shot. 40 years ago Standing 100 yard small bore I did okay. YEARS go by and, well an ok shot.
Shot some FT at 20fpe, 12fpe, ranging, holdover, used a duplex reticule, ....... Still not as good as I once was but man FT WILL force you to learn to shoot, esp. say 12fpe and a duplex scope, good clean fun. Not to mention free tips, helpfull ideas, tunes, deals on gear, have fired just about every airgun from a CR Quest to a GC2 , Daystae to DAQ and Benjamin pistol .......
SPO many reason to like/shoot FT.

It seems to me , these days, most want an airgun that is a fire arm substitute. they want MORE power, NEED a clip, .......
And "I" have always felt airguns are for, fun, to help improve shooting skills and such as that. 
Shot placement is everything no matter the gear or game ( FT or Wild or ... ) and FT teaches that in the most pleasant inviorment.

John




​Very well said.