What would you guys recommend as a forgiving easy to use eyebox, in a decent glass, side wheel, mid/low $, high power ffp scope that can take .308 pb..?
Most forgiving eyebox
- Thread starter acs
- Start date
I think the OP was asking for an FFP scope — so.... That's got to be a variable magnification scope....
acs,
do say: What do you mean by sidewheel?
1) Do you want a side parallax turret, instead of a front adjustable objective? This requirement is easy to fulfill.
2) Or you want a large wheel to mount onto a side parallax turret?
This is harder to fulfill, because some scopes come with a wheel, other scopes have this as $40 accessory, and others don't, but you can get really nice custom wheels for about $100.
3) Are you planning to do range finding using that large parallax wheel?
How far out are you hoping to range find with that? (This will greatly influence the top magnification you'll need.)
4) How much magnification do you really need/want? Because magnification and eye box work against each other... — larger magni = smaller eye box.....
!!! How much money exactly are you thinking of spending.... (Most important question, really, you can get stuff from $100 to $3000....)
Matthias
acs,
do say: What do you mean by sidewheel?
1) Do you want a side parallax turret, instead of a front adjustable objective? This requirement is easy to fulfill.
2) Or you want a large wheel to mount onto a side parallax turret?
This is harder to fulfill, because some scopes come with a wheel, other scopes have this as $40 accessory, and others don't, but you can get really nice custom wheels for about $100.
3) Are you planning to do range finding using that large parallax wheel?
How far out are you hoping to range find with that? (This will greatly influence the top magnification you'll need.)
4) How much magnification do you really need/want? Because magnification and eye box work against each other... — larger magni = smaller eye box.....
!!! How much money exactly are you thinking of spending.... (Most important question, really, you can get stuff from $100 to $3000....)
Matthias
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Side parallax, don't need a wheel that comes with it.
Got a range finder, but a good side parallax adjuster that shows accurate range would be a plus....
Mounting this on a .308 Remington as my backup Elk rifle this year, had problems with my 7mm mag last year. Might need up to 300-400yards, more couldn't hurt. Not sure what mag is best as some scopes 24x seems like 12x on other scopes, not real confident in scopes claimed magnification numbers....
Well, as you say higher mag = worse eyebox usually. Thats my problem, all the scopes I try have a less than ideal easy/quick eyebox picture, I hate that. Would gladly settle for much less glass and a great forgiving eyebox scope...
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acs, 
I'lll attach a table below that shows the exit pupil size as it relates to the magnification on the one hand, and on the objective size on the other.
The exit pupil size is not the same as the eye box, but it is closely related — so a larger exit pupil size usually gets you a more forgiving eye box.
➔ From the table you'll see that the typical 6-24x50 scope is not that "forgiving" in the eye box department.
Magnification at the top
I have not hunted large game, so others will have to advise you an what magnification you'll need — but just from what I read a 16x magnification on the top end might be all (or more than) you need....
You can then combine that with a 50mm objective (4-16x50) and get a generous exit pupil (and hopefully a comfortable eye box).
If you go down to 12x magnification top end, even more so (3-12x44). (There is a Hawke Airmax 30 SFAMX IR 3-12x50 (No. 13 300) that has a 50mm objective — huge exit pupil, huge light gathering ability.)
Manufacturers' stated magnification inaccurate?
About the stated magnification of a scope and your personal feel of it:
What you might(?) be noticing is not that the 16x magnification of scope A is different than the 16x magnification of scope B. Instead, you might be noticing the difference in field of view (FoV), i.e., how much grass and trees you can see around your elk.
And the FoV can vary wildly between scopes of the same magnification.
➔ I'll attach two Scope Specs Tables for two different magnification ranges, that way you can compare the specs that are relevant to you, including exit pupil and FoV.
Matthias
Attachment: Exit pupil, as a result of magnification and objective lens
View attachment SCOPE Exit Pupil Size Recommended. 02.1602866055.pdf
Attachment: Scope Specs Table for 4-16x magnification (3-18x, 4-14x)
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For 4-14x 3-18x, 4-16x Magnification. 074. 2020-09. TABLE.1602866067.pdf
Attachment: Scope Specs Table for SHORT scopes and scopes with 3-12x or 3-9x magnification
View attachment SCOPE SPECS TABLE. For Short Scopes -and- 3-12x. 045. 2020-08. TABLE.1602866077.pdf
I'lll attach a table below that shows the exit pupil size as it relates to the magnification on the one hand, and on the objective size on the other.
The exit pupil size is not the same as the eye box, but it is closely related — so a larger exit pupil size usually gets you a more forgiving eye box.
➔ From the table you'll see that the typical 6-24x50 scope is not that "forgiving" in the eye box department.
Magnification at the topI have not hunted large game, so others will have to advise you an what magnification you'll need — but just from what I read a 16x magnification on the top end might be all (or more than) you need....
You can then combine that with a 50mm objective (4-16x50) and get a generous exit pupil (and hopefully a comfortable eye box).
If you go down to 12x magnification top end, even more so (3-12x44). (There is a Hawke Airmax 30 SFAMX IR 3-12x50 (No. 13 300) that has a 50mm objective — huge exit pupil, huge light gathering ability.)
Manufacturers' stated magnification inaccurate? About the stated magnification of a scope and your personal feel of it:
What you might(?) be noticing is not that the 16x magnification of scope A is different than the 16x magnification of scope B. Instead, you might be noticing the difference in field of view (FoV), i.e., how much grass and trees you can see around your elk.
And the FoV can vary wildly between scopes of the same magnification.
➔ I'll attach two Scope Specs Tables for two different magnification ranges, that way you can compare the specs that are relevant to you, including exit pupil and FoV.
Matthias
Attachment: Exit pupil, as a result of magnification and objective lens Attachment: Scope Specs Table for 4-16x magnification (3-18x, 4-14x) Attachment: Scope Specs Table for SHORT scopes and scopes with 3-12x or 3-9x magnification 
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Help me understand what determines how forgiving an eyebox is. What other factors other than objective size and magnification...?
Are there other determining factors some scopes might have in higher magnification that makes the eyebox more forgiving than other scopes..?
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That... I don't know.
However, I read a scope test report by someone who is as scientifically minded, as he is nuts about shooting. VERY. (He tested a whole bunch of scopes above $1,500, you can imagine he spared no expenses to do a valid, reliable test.)
And not even he could find a way to "measure" the eye box.
It can be beneficial to you for finding and staying in you eyebox if you:
—have the comb of your stock high enough to comfortably "weld your cheek to your stock".
—have a little something (tiny piece of fabric?) on the comb that touches your face in a predetermined spot — so when you feel the fabric in that spot you KNOW your eye is in the right position — inside the eye box.
Matthias
However, I read a scope test report by someone who is as scientifically minded, as he is nuts about shooting. VERY. (He tested a whole bunch of scopes above $1,500, you can imagine he spared no expenses to do a valid, reliable test.)
And not even he could find a way to "measure" the eye box.
It can be beneficial to you for finding and staying in you eyebox if you:—have the comb of your stock high enough to comfortably "weld your cheek to your stock".
—have a little something (tiny piece of fabric?) on the comb that touches your face in a predetermined spot — so when you feel the fabric in that spot you KNOW your eye is in the right position — inside the eye box.
Matthias
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Nothing beats buying it for yourself and looking through every single one of them because specs on paper don't mean squat compared to real world physically looking through them for yourself IMHO. I used to trust soley based on specs and YouTube reviews but not any more due to too many disappointments based on others reviews because everybodys eyes are different.
SWFAs variable FFP scopes don't have very friendly eyeboxes IMHO.
Buy 10 different scopes from a return friendly dealer and keep one that your eyes like what you see the best looking through all of them in comparison and return the rest. You may find a diamond in the rough and notice some are the same scopes with different brand label with shocking price difference price as well.
SWFAs variable FFP scopes don't have very friendly eyeboxes IMHO.
Buy 10 different scopes from a return friendly dealer and keep one that your eyes like what you see the best looking through all of them in comparison and return the rest. You may find a diamond in the rough and notice some are the same scopes with different brand label with shocking price difference price as well.
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While I agree nothing beats trying for yourself, buy 10 to try... well, don't have time for that, leaving for hunting trip 5 days. Need my backup gun scoped. Got a Primary Arms PLX on my 7mm mag, its ok, don't wan to spend that type of mony for my backup...
Come on yo, you're the resident scope guru, you've tried/bought a dozen of every scope ever made,, tell me what I need to know, help a bro out, no cope out.... lol
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Discovery HD FFP 4-20x50 (specifically!!! For FFP) But the Alpha6 SFP!!! Is better with probably the most forgiving eyebox believe it or not no matter how dirt cheap it is what it is. Even when zooming in and out through its extremeties it seems to stay the same.
You asked!!!
Contact JCD he has a new one UNMOUNTED $200 shipped.
I was gonna send money this week. You probably need it more than I do. You are not gonna believe what you see looking through it when you try it out.
You asked!!!
Contact JCD he has a new one UNMOUNTED $200 shipped.
I was gonna send money this week. You probably need it more than I do. You are not gonna believe what you see looking through it when you try it out.
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Consider a Meopta optika 6 3-18x56 FFP.
Not too expensive, with great turrets, glass and a fantastic eyebox. They can be quite hard to find but absolutely worth trying.
Just be sure to read properly on the sites that stock them as they have a 3-18x50 variant as well that will likely be slightly less forgiving.
Not too expensive, with great turrets, glass and a fantastic eyebox. They can be quite hard to find but absolutely worth trying.
Just be sure to read properly on the sites that stock them as they have a 3-18x50 variant as well that will likely be slightly less forgiving.
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Thanks, exactly what I wanted to hear,,, who is JCD...? Is this in the classified ads..? Saw 2 of the higher power 27x that got sold already. I must of been to slow and missed out. Where is a good place to get 1 new fast..?
Got a Discovery 6 x 24 vtt and its ok, but its eyebox is totally unforgiving imo, especially at higher powers I'll be needing, exactly what I don't want for quick full sight picture maybe leading an elk at 350 yards...
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Thanks, looks nice, they have them at optics planet. Looking for the cheaper Alpha6 with 27x, if I can't find 1 quick I'll order the Meopta from optics planet.
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JCD is a trusted member you should PM him. He didn't list his for sale. Tell him I said it's fine for you to buy it for $200. I bugged him to sell it to me. I got plenty already and looks like you need one more than me.
It's just an extra scope he has and retaiks for $393.29 that aren't bound to be sold at MAP prices like the well known brands so you can get them for less than $393.29. They are worth way more than $393.29 retail IMHO.
https://www.aimsportsinc.com/alpha-6-4-5-27x50-30mm-riflescope-w-mr1-mrad-reticle/
If you read this forum regularly I can guarantee that you will save money.
The Alpha6 is about 4-5x better than the Discovery 6-24x in brightness and clarity with at least a 10x better eyebox that doesn't change with the magnification.
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I did a comparison a while back between 3 popular scopes I had in my possession at the time and compared subjective performance including how the eye box compared at different magnification settings. The scopes were the Hawke Airmax, Hawke Sidewinder FFP and the Athlon Argos BTR. All were similar zoom ranges. Pretty different results between them.
I'll edit to add the link once I find it again...
Edit: Here it is...
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-review-hawke-sidewinder-ffp-6-24-x-56mm-vs-argos-airmax-30/
Sean
I'll edit to add the link once I find it again...
Edit: Here it is...
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-review-hawke-sidewinder-ffp-6-24-x-56mm-vs-argos-airmax-30/
Sean
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When Odoyle says something — it usually is as he says... 
I think this would be the correct link:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-review-hawke-sidewinder-ffp-6-24-x-56mm-vs-argos-airmax-30
Very interesting comparison.
Matthias
I think this would be the correct link:
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/scope-review-hawke-sidewinder-ffp-6-24-x-56mm-vs-argos-airmax-30
Very interesting comparison.
Matthias
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