MTC Viper Pro- Range Tape

[LeadFinger]

Hey guys--

I just got the 5-30x50 and put it on my Impact, & made a video of how I finished the tape with Photoshop. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3DLwQ-gZlsvq=hd1440

 

[Tominco]

LeadFinger!
Your timing couldn't be any better. I was planning on struggling my way through this today. Your video will help a lot. 
Like you said, you ripped through it quick. But, that's better than dragging it out at a painfully slow pace. 
Thanks a bunch!
Tom
+ to you

 

[Mousefart]

Very cool. Thanks

 

[LeadFinger]

Thanks guys--
Yeah my head was hurting trying to figure all that out... but I did it. It works great.

I probably should have included a couple links in that first post as well.



MTC's Page: Range Tape Calculator[/QUOTE]http://mtcoptics.com/range-tape-calculator/embed/




(don't know why it gave a preview of MTC's whole page above, I just wanted to leave a link..)

Pyramyd Air's Calculator: http://m-b-r.co.uk/HTML/Calculator.html

In that video I made one tape, starting at 40 yards.
But another idea I had was to generate 2 tapes- one starting at 10 yards and one at 50, and superimposed them over each other to make one. (starting at 50 yards it reads up to 120, and @ 10 yards it only reads up to 80)
I set the font at 25 so they don't bleed over each other.

So I generated 2 separate tapes:

The ones below were actually on top of each other. I took turns at 50% opacity so I could see through them and kinda chopped them up, selecting parts and hitting delete:

And finished with this:

 

[kmd1984]

Good job and thanks for sharing.

I personally still prefer the "hands on" method, where I glue a piece of paper on to the turret, shoot at distances ranging from 15 to 100m, and just mark the tape with a pencil. I then take the tape off and write the distances on it.
The reason I do that is, because I had a ton of different pellets to try, and I didn't want to make a new tape every single time I used a different pellet, or power setting on my bobcat Mk2. 
Funny enough, I still use holdover to 90% of my shots. It's just so much easier and faster when shooting prairie dogs.Especially when shooting at the same spot and distances. 

That said, right now I only have a H and a L in my tape. High and low... those are my power settings.

Kmd

 

[LeadFinger]

I live on Maui soooo... doing a "Hands On" set-up is basically impossible, as the only firing range we have is closed to the public Mon-Fri --reserved for firearm classes and Law Enforcement-- and only open to 'normal folk' Sat & Sun. Even though I'm pretty abnormal.

Yeah I'm geeking out here for sure but it's fun. It came with 2 turret inserts. So I made 2 tapes, one for each barrel on my Impact. But yeah I've written on them too. I'm surprised how accurate it is though!

 

[kmd1984]

Aren't we all geeks, in one form or another?! : )

I actually forgot to mention that in my last post: They need to include more inserts, or at least offer it separately for sale. I am glad to see that they ship now with two inserts. I got my scope a long time ago. For free, in order to test it. : )

I am not surprised at all how good it works. Think about it: Apps such as Chairgun and Strelok are petty much spot on, when configured right. All they had to do, is to transfer the data from the app into "linear" form and put it on a tape. I am not saying it was easy. I am saying it is simple! : ) Anyhow, I was going to use the software that MTC provides a while ago, but something through me off. I forgot what exactly it was?! Something about the pellet coefficient... I was just too lazy to figure it out at the time, so I stuck with writing on the tape. : )

Glad you got it to work though. 

Kmd

 

[Maineiac]

"LeadFinger"Yeah I'm geeking out here for sure but it's fun.
It came with 2 turret inserts. So I made 2 tapes, one for each barrel on my Impact. But yeah I've written on them too.
I'm surprised how accurate it is though!

I was just wondering how I would handle a different caliber or pellet weight. Is there a way to print 2 sets of distances on the same tape or is it just better to use separate tapes?

 

[kmd1984]

"Maineiac"

"LeadFinger"Yeah I'm geeking out here for sure but it's fun.
It came with 2 turret inserts. So I made 2 tapes, one for each barrel on my Impact. But yeah I've written on them too.
I'm surprised how accurate it is though!

I was just wondering how I would handle a different caliber or pellet weight. Is there a way to print 2 sets of distances on the same tape or is it just better to use separate tapes?

Take a look at the first picture in the thread. As you can see, he printed a tape that has distance markers on top, and on the bottom. The reason many do that is, so they can increase the font in order to see the numbers better. But of course you do not have to do that.
You could print one caliber/power setting on the bottom, and the other caliber/power setting on the top. Of course it all depends on if you can fit the numbers next to each other.

I have two markings on my tape right now. One says L and the other one says H. L marks my zero at 20 meters on Low power, and H marks my zero at 20 meters on High power. When I shoot at low power, I turn the turret to L and when I shoot at high power I turn my turret to H. That means that I have to use hold-over, of course, which kind of defeats the purpose of this scope. However, I shoot at a spot with many Prairie Dogs, where one shot might be at 45 m and the other one, 5 seconds later, at 20 meters. Changing the turret between shots would be a major PITA. 

That said. I told MTC that I do not like how one has to change the tape. The set screws are way to small. Easy to lose and strip. Sure, if you never change pellet type, caliber or power settings, there is no need to take the tape off and on all the time, so you should be fine. I suggested that they design the tape to be on the outside. Like a "clip-on" ring. Hard to explain what I mean. Let me see if I find a picture on Google of something similar.

One minute later... Yup, found something. Take a look at the picture and you will see what I mean... Forget the bottom part and just focus on the top part. The circular part. Imagine your tape is on that, and then you simply "clip" that on to the outside of the turret... : )

Kmd

 

[kmd1984]

One more thing...

When you decide to put markings on the bottom and the top, but everything is getting to "tight", put down "symbols" instead of the actual number:

You zeroed your scope at 20 meters. Now put either a line, or a 0 on your tape. Lets make it a zero for this example. Since you want to put a mark on the tape for each 5 meters, The next "symbol" could be a "dot". When coming from 20, you know your next increment will be in 5 meter, thus the dot. When you now put down your marking for 30, you might as well use 30, or to safe space, a 3. Maybe even just a line? See what I am doing here? I know it seems "weird" to do it this way, but once you have done it, you will get used to it. 

That said, you should ALWAYS adjust your distance coming from the same "direction". There is a 1/4 moa, mil, or what not (I forgot) play in the turret. So you can turn the turret for a little bit, before the internal gears grab, so you need to remember that. In other words: I always go from low to high. When my last shot was at 80 meters and my next one is at 50 m, I just don't turn the turret down to 50. I go past 50 and then go up again. So 80 - 30 - 50. That way I control the play in the turret.

Hope this helps.

Kmd

 

[LeadFinger]

"Maineiac"

"LeadFinger"Yeah I'm geeking out here for sure but it's fun.
It came with 2 turret inserts. So I made 2 tapes, one for each barrel on my Impact. But yeah I've written on them too.
I'm surprised how accurate it is though!

I was just wondering how I would handle a different caliber or pellet weight. Is there a way to print 2 sets of distances on the same tape or is it just better to use separate tapes?

You've gotta play around with it man.
With their software no, you can't print two settings on one tape. But with something like Photoshop you can, print and lay them over each other & tweak and edit.

This aluminum MOA collar came glued on one of the inserts, the one in the scope, and I pulled it off.
I have separate tapes for my .25 and .30 barrels, but it's tricky lining them up correctly when I insert them. Not only is it challenging to lock the turret and hope I glued it right to slip in line with the gears, I also thought if they were both zeroed at 50 I'll just swap them out at that yardage. Ha ha but they are different power settings!

I'm still playing around with the whole process. So far, swapping @ 15 yards, the .25 caliber's windage is 10+ clicks to the right compared to the .30's. The elevation is off as well... I have this illusion that I'm gonna get it down to the point where when I look out my screen door, whether I see a pig or a pheasant, I'll be able to load and dial within 60 seconds. I'll let you know how that works out.

As far as putting 2 settings on one tape- interestingly the lower yardages are very close, and might not be too difficult to add in there or memorize. Maybe I'll color code them- The .25's 20yd mark is grey, with a grey hashmark next to it for the .30?

The higher yardages might have plenty of room between them to add in multiple points.


.30 on the top (860fps) / .25 on the bottom (830fps)

 

[Maineiac]

"LeadFinger"

"Maineiac"

"LeadFinger"Yeah I'm geeking out here for sure but it's fun.
It came with 2 turret inserts. So I made 2 tapes, one for each barrel on my Impact. But yeah I've written on them too.
I'm surprised how accurate it is though!

I was just wondering how I would handle a different caliber or pellet weight. Is there a way to print 2 sets of distances on the same tape or is it just better to use separate tapes?

You've gotta play around with it man.
With their software no, you can't print two settings on one tape. But with something like Photoshop you can, print and lay them over each other & tweak and edit.

This aluminum MOA collar came glued on one of the inserts, the one in the scope, and I pulled it off.
I have separate tapes for my .25 and .30 barrels, but it's tricky lining them up correctly when I insert them. Not only is it challenging to lock the turret and hope I glued it right to slip in line with the gears, I also thought if they were both zeroed at 50 I'll just swap them out at that yardage. Ha ha but they are different power settings!

I'm still playing around with the whole process. So far, swapping @ 15 yards, the .25 caliber's windage is 10+ clicks to the right compared to the .30's. The elevation is off as well... I have this illusion that I'm gonna get it down to the point where when I look out my screen door, whether I see a pig or a pheasant, I'll be able to load and dial within 60 seconds. I'll let you know how that works out.

As far as putting 2 settings on one tape- interestingly the lower yardages are very close, and might not be too difficult to add in there or memorize. Maybe I'll color code them- The .25's 20yd mark is grey, with a grey hashmark next to it for the .30?

The higher yardages might have plenty of room between them to add in multiple points.


.30 on the top (860fps) / .25 on the bottom (830fps)

This is helpful, thanks! I currently have a 22 but just ordered a 25 barrel. I figured the elevation would be off but I'm surprised the windage would be so many clicks off.

I wonder how people with a "regular" scope handle caliber changes on the impact? Just memorizing the click differences for when they switch?

 

[kmd1984]

"I wonder how people with a “regular” scope handle caliber changes on the impact? Just memorizing the click differences for when they switch?"

They do it just like it was done for the last 180 years... You make notes. : )

 

[Maineiac]

"kmd1984""I wonder how people with a “regular” scope handle caliber changes on the impact? Just memorizing the click differences for when they switch?"

They do it just like it was done for the last 180 years... You make notes. : )

Well I don't think people have had guns with interchangeable calibers for the last 180 years ;-)

 

[kmd1984]

"Maineiac"

"kmd1984""I wonder how people with a “regular” scope handle caliber changes on the impact? Just memorizing the click differences for when they switch?"

They do it just like it was done for the last 180 years... You make notes. : )

Well I don't think people have had guns with interchangeable calibers for the last 180 years ;-)

Powder Burners do not need to change the barrel to achieve different ballistic results. : )

 

[LeadFinger]

"Maineiac"

This is helpful, thanks! I currently have a 22 but just ordered a 25 barrel. I figured the elevation would be off but I'm surprised the windage would be so many clicks off.

I wonder how people with a "regular" scope handle caliber changes on the impact? Just memorizing the click differences for when they switch?

I just started a new thread with that exact question, cause I have a massive difference between barrel POI's:
http://www.airgunnation.com/topic/multiple-impact-barrels-poi-differences-between-them/

 

[Tominco]

The MTC is running me around in circles. 
zero is zero and that's not changing. So, the scope is returning to zero just fine. But, as I get farther away from my 50 yard zero (in either direction), I also get farther away from the mark that the calculator has doped onto the tape for that specific range
Example....
50 is 0 
75 is about 4 clicks off. 
100 is even more clicks off. 
I'm fiddling around with the VRF trying to get things to line up to the marks I made manually. But, it always seems off. 

I've also compared numbers between the Chairgun and MTC and they don't match up. I actually bought a second Chrony to crunch my ballistic coefficients so that I would be sure my near and far velocities would be as accurate as possible since they'd be read off the exact same shot(s). So, my BC's should be right. I'm plugging in all the same numbers and getting different results from the two different calculators. Math is universal so, why the variation in numbers?
Has anyone else experienced this? 
I'm almost to the point of just punching everything in by physically shooting at each distance and making a mark. Then, forcing the program to print the numbers where I say. But, I'd really like to get the program to work for me. 
I love the concept on the Viper pro. Now, if I can just get it to work... I'd have a big smile on my face. 

@Leadfinger, thanks again for the video! I've referenced it a few times so far. I don't have photoshop so, I'm coming up with other ways of putting the numbers where they go.
Tom

 

[Wadcutter]

LeadFinger, good video. You are a true geek

Tominco,
Sounds familiar; Chairgun and MTC do not match up. I printed tapes from both and the farther distance I shot the farther it was off. Tried different BC for pellet used. And even shot through chrony at 60yrds to figure true BC. Punched in that number and still no dice. In the end, I just ended up printing one of the blank yellow templates from the website. I then stuck it to the extra ring that came with the scope. Picked a calm day and spent several hours shooting at different distances marking the tape as I went. Only went to 100 yards at 5 yard increments. That way I know it is correct. I then opened the blank template in Photoshop. Made several layers with the yardage numbers. Then placed those numbers to the corresponding sharpie marks from the original tape. Printed the final tape and it is right on the money now. I will probably extend the yardage in the future. I saved the file as a PSD with layers to make it easy to move the numbers around in the future if needed.

I have the VP 5-30 X 50 and the FX no limit rings. As an experiment I decided to have one zero at 35yards. To get the most elevation out of the scope, I cranked the turret all the way down then backed it off 1/4 turn. Adjusted the rings till it was zeroed at that 35yrd distance. Should have enough elevation adjustment out to 160 or 170 yards.

 

[Mousefart]

First off, ChairGun has several BC modeling options (formulas) available in the menu. If the model selected in CG is not the same as MTC then perhaps that explains them not matching. 

Next, and I'm just wondering out loud here...I wonder if shooting at, say, a 25 yard first zero and then at 75 yards, measuring that actual drop, then experimenting with the BC in either program until you get a computed drop which equals the measured drop...maybe then you will have backed into a BC that will make the rest of the computed drops (and your tape) match the real-world performance?

(Please forgive me if that turns out to be a dumb idea)

 

[kmd1984]

"Tominco"The MTC is running me around in circles. 
zero is zero and that's not changing. So, the scope is returning to zero just fine. But, as I get farther away from my 50 yard zero (in either direction), I also get farther away from the mark that the calculator has doped onto the tape for that specific range
Example....
50 is 0 
75 is about 4 clicks off. 
100 is even more clicks off. 
I'm fiddling around with the VRF trying to get things to line up to the marks I made manually. But, it always seems off. 

I've also compared numbers between the Chairgun and MTC and they don't match up. I actually bought a second Chrony to crunch my ballistic coefficients so that I would be sure my near and far velocities would be as accurate as possible since they'd be read off the exact same shot(s). So, my BC's should be right. I'm plugging in all the same numbers and getting different results from the two different calculators. Math is universal so, why the variation in numbers?
Has anyone else experienced this? 
I'm almost to the point of just punching everything in by physically shooting at each distance and making a mark. Then, forcing the program to print the numbers where I say. But, I'd really like to get the program to work for me. 
I love the concept on the Viper pro. Now, if I can just get it to work... I'd have a big smile on my face. 

@Leadfinger, thanks again for the video! I've referenced it a few times so far. I don't have photoshop so, I'm coming up with other ways of putting the numbers where they go.
Tom

I have no idea why your numbers are off, but I would just double check everything again. The MTC software has distances in yards, but the scope height is in mm? Not sure why that is, and why you cannot pick between inches and millimeters? Anyhow, just make sure Strelok/Chairgun uses the right units as MTC does. 
I also never worked with VRF before, and to be honest, I find it confusing.

Just do what I did. Just go shooting and make your own tape markers. You already feel like doing it, so go ahead and do it. I mean, why rely on the software, if you only need it to make the tape???

Kmd