Air Venturi Multiple Air Venturi Avengers with Regulator Creep

Jump to latest Follow Reply
S

sparker

Member
Jul 16, 2023
120
25
Omaha
Hey all,

I'm pretty new to airguns, and this is my first PCP. I've had it for 2 days and am noticing a weird issue. When I fill the gun to the 4200 PSI and set the regulator at 1800 PSI, as it sits the main tank pressure will drop to about 4100 PSI and the regulator pressure will climb to around 1900 PSI. I've purged and refilled and the behavior is consistent, leaving it over night the main tank was at 4000 PSI and the reg was at 2000 PSI.

Should I be concerned and send it back? Should I try a couple drops of silicon oil in the fill port? I saw a post somewhere that it might help a leak. I've shot 80 rounds through it so far with no oiling or changing anything aside from setting the "Pro Tune" following the aeac video guide.

Thanks
 
Hey welcome to AGN Sparker!

The Avenger is one of the best airguns on the market now, especially for the price. Glad you got one! Let us know if you have any questions at all. Lots of us have one on AGN.

So....a lot of the Avengers have "regulator creep" and it sounds like exactly what you are experiencing. I've had mine since December '22 and I've set my reg set from 1.6k, crept to 1.8k then up to about 2.2 or 2.3k now and each morning after shooting it'll climb to 2.6k or so.

It's a common thing but some people will just tell you to dry fire like 2 shots and then go out and shoot cause the dry firing will lower the plenum pressure to what your reg pressure is set to. That's what I do.

Since yours is going from the air tube to the plenum, that eliminates an external leak (good). You can try the silicone in the fill port and see if that helps. It is also a new gun and can take a bit to settle in. Also, if you fill with a compressor the air will be warmer and the psi will be higher. In addition, if you are pumping up inside in AC then take it outside in the sun the psi will rise. Laws of physics etc. BUT from what you say it sounds like reg creep.

There are things you can do to it to help settle it like degas, punch out the pin that is in the block over the reg screw and unthread the screw out and you'll see the delrin? material on the end. You can lay some 2,000 grit or more sandpaper on glass and flatten that seat flush to make it more consistent in pressure. However since yours is new and you're also new to airguns and PCP idk if I'd recommend that yet.
Before
1689543864154.png

After sanding
1689543934282.png

And here you can read up on what else I did but I've modded mine...a lot:
Polish regulator washers, etc
but again I don't think you should be taking it apart since it is under warranty.

Even after doing all that to mine it still creeps though but my standard deviation is low and it's very accurate gun, like 18 shots of 18.13 JSB hitting a 2 inch spinner at 75 yards.
Shot string:
FPS 935.7, 934.5, 930.3, 931.7, 930.3, 934.5, 928.9, 935.9, 928.9, 930.3, 927.5, 928.9, 930.3, 924.8, 924.8, 927.5, 933.1, 927.5

Ave FPS: 930.3
Ave FPE: 34.85
ES: 11.1 FPS
Std Dv: 3.2956199888809

Anyway all that was to say it's accurate even with the overnight 200psi creep. If yours creeps that much in like a few hours or faster (but not due to just filling up or ambient temps) then I'd consider warranty swap. But if its overnight and you still have warranty time left I'd shoot a whole tin 500 pellets through it and see where you're at after the silicone oil.

Im saying this for general reference since youre new to PCP, not because "pro tune" is bad or anything but if you tune to 95-97% of max velocity at a reg setting (so go from 0 hammer spring to all the way in then see what your FPS is on a chronograph, shooting a few at each 1/2 HS turn) then go back to whatever is 95-97% of the max velocity, you will be at a efficient spot for air use, and also for consistency in psi. You will also be more accurate even if the psi is off a bit because of the 95-97% tune. You can search on AGN for "tune for the knee" on a shot curve for more explanation.

Accuracy is king in airgun world. Much better to be slow and hit what you aim at than go for highest FPS. All you'd do is miss faster lol
 
  • Like
Reactions: Billy T, Dogowsky, sparker and 1 other person
Upvote 0
Thanks so much for the long informative reply!

EmptyTin_Tim said:
It's a common thing but some people will just tell you to dry fire like 2 shots and then go out and shoot cause the dry firing will lower the plenum pressure to what your reg pressure is set to. That's what I do.
Click to expand...

That's disappointing to hear. I was wanting to use this for ridding pests in the backyard, having to dry fire twice to be accurate is quite a let down.

EmptyTin_Tim said:
Since yours is going from the air tube to the plenum, that eliminates an external leak (good). You can try the silicone in the fill port and see if that helps. It is also a new gun and can take a bit to settle in. Also, if you fill with a compressor the air will be warmer and the psi will be higher.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it lose PSI as the air cooled off? For instance after a fill from compressor (which is what I have) then the gun would be full of hot air and the PSI should get lower in both chambers as the air cools off.

I also watched a video on youtube from someone that claimed if you leave the gun cocked it doesn't reg creep overnight, I don't trust much of what he says though.
EmptyTin_Tim said:
There are things you can do to it to help settle it like degas, punch out the pin that is in the block over the reg screw and unthread the screw out and you'll see the delrin? material on the end. You can lay some 2,000 grit or more sandpaper on glass and flatten that seat flush to make it more consistent in pressure. However since yours is new and you're also new to airguns and PCP idk if I'd recommend that yet.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty mechanically inclined so this wouldn't be out of my skillset, but I don't want to void the warranty just yet. I'm going to call them and see if I can do the inspection without voiding the warranty.

EmptyTin_Tim said:
Im saying this for general reference since youre new to PCP, not because "pro tune" is bad or anything but if you tune to 95-97% of max velocity at a reg setting (so go from 0 hammer spring to all the way in then see what your FPS is on a chronograph, shooting a few at each 1/2 HS turn) then go back to whatever is 95-97% of the max velocity, you will be at a efficient spot for air use, and also for consistency in psi. You will also be more accurate even if the psi is off a bit because of the 95-97% tune. You can search on AGN for "tune for the knee" on a shot curve for more explanation.

Accuracy is king in airgun world. Much better to be slow and hit what you aim at than go for highest FPS. All you'd do is miss faster lol
Click to expand...

Interesting, I'll do this but I won't have a chronograph for a while. As a side note I only got 35 shots out of the gun from 4000 PSI before it was below the 1800 PSI reg so something seems way off about it considering the numbers he had in the tuning guide.
 
Upvote 0
No problem man I've been a sponge and it's time to wring out some info I've absorbed lol

Okay dry fire inside then go out and pest, if too loud you should order a Buck Rail LDC. Thing makes it SO QUIET. Back to your comment, If you are experiencing the reg creep overnight you only have to dry fire before you go out and shoot it wont raise fast enough to matter if you are in a blind or wherever waiting for squirrels etc for an hour. If it does then yeah you need to warranty exchange.

However, if you find and read those tuning guides on AGN about the 95-97% Knee you will see couple hundred psi ramge doesn't matter a ton because the FPS difference won't affect your placement enough to miss a squirrel. Trust me I zipped one thru a rabbit head at 30.5 yards it hit exactly where I aimed first shot of the day. I don't mean to brush off the reg creep concern but there are a lot of Avenger owners here who have it and they just dry fire then go out.

Okay yes you are correct over time it will lower after it cools, but remember pressure = how much in what size container so the plenum is way smaller than the tubes and changes more due to that. I tuned mine for 2.4k reg when I was outside last time and then after being inside in like 15 degree cooler air the gun registered at 2.2k reg now. There's people that tune their guns for the seasons, like just re zero, cause in the Midwest here it is up to 100 summer down to 0 winter and there's no way the pressure can stay where its at with those ambient temps if your gun is outside that long.

Yeah I bet that guy is the All About Airguns or STKO ? I'd watch his videos then come here to verify stuff like some is good other is eh but he does a lot with the Avenger so it's just more to watch and learn. I copied his probe o ring delete on my Avenger with this tubing and it works well. If you cock it then the hammer isn't resting on the valve stem. Idk I guess you could try it and see. Won't wear out the spring much just turn in more after a long time for same effect. Manual says have to turn in after X # of shots anyway.

Hey if you wanna try it you can maybe put some masking tape around the pin when you punch out so it doesn't mark and they won't know lol. Besides checking the delrin for grooves etc there is also an O ring on the reg you can either get your own but I got this complete kit here. It comes with a diagram showing where they go.

I wouldn't take apart the reg like I did cause it would be obvious to warranty people since the thing is lock tite together and it takes heat and really good snap ring pliers ( which I didn't have, flexed and gouged around the holes... but still works!) It would be amazing if you could take apart and not gouge it mine was on so tight. But this is not necessary to check delrin or that one O ring, there are just more O rings inside.

Dude imma help you out here check out this chronograph, it mounts around muzzle, can show in FPS, and also can do shot strings. I don't do that just see and write down in a Doc. But it is an awesome one for cheap. You NEED a chronograph to tune. You'll find out your average FPS and then can calculate average FPE and also use an app like Chairgun or Strelok to get your holdover. I love Chairgun I can use my rangefinder punch that in, boom it says where to hold. Dead on. Can program in any pellet and it does stuff like temperature, elevation, wind etc and Ballistic Coefficient. Also will tell you optimal zero distance for your FPS.

Chronograph will help a lot for knowing your tune so you can do 95-97% tune and then you'll be more efficient. I believe pellets prefer higher reg and lower HS but you can see on paper and also shot count. You want the valve to close back up just before the pellet exits so you aren't wasting air. Any air after the pellet leaves also makes it louder. You can really tell HS and Reg are not in line by noise even a dry fire will be quieter if they are balanced. Like you have to move them up together though cause higher reg makes it more resistant so need more HS to punch open the valve.

I modded mine almost right away to bottle and lots more but 35 shots sounds super low to me stock... 1800 reg isn't that high either so should get more shots. Each gun is slightly different but those AEAC tunes should get you ballpark. Just remember degas before lowering but can raise pressurized. HS can be adjusted any time.

Let us know if you have any more questions!
 
Upvote 0
Hi Sparker, welcome to AGN!

What caliber is your Avenger? Maybe I missed it.

I agree with Tim, the 35 shots per fill is low for a 1800 - 2000 regulator setpoint. I have my .22 cal set to 1700psi and the hammer spring adjuster did not have enough travel to back off to velocity knee (95-97% of max velocity). No matter where it was set, the velocity remained the same which means it was wasting air. I removed the hammer spring and shortened it slightly (removed 1.5 turns if memory serves). It’s quieter and shot count went up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sparker and EmptyTin_Tim
Upvote 0
Hey, yes mine is .22. I just talked to Stacey at Air Venturi and she set up a return for me. The Reg went up 400 PSI over 36 hours so I’d rather just start over fresh.

My friend bought a Doppler for his ballistics testing and he’s sending me a nice chrono for free but he won’t be home to ship it for a couple weeks. I was hoping the ballpark pro tune would be good enough until then.

Thanks guys!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky and EmptyTin_Tim
Upvote 0
sparker said:
I just talked to Stacey at Air Venturi and she set up a return for me. The Reg went up 400 PSI over 36 hours so I’d rather just start over fresh.
Click to expand...
10-4. Hopefully the replacement is good to go but I just wanted to give you a heads up that the new regulator will need some break-in. Initially it is likely to also exhibit some pressure creep. Just shoot it daily for a week or so, at least 25 pellets per session. Each day, take note of the regulator’s starting pressure versus what it settles to. After a few days you’ll have a good sense of how it’s settling in.

Also just to be sure you know, never adjust the regulator down while it is pressurized. Doing so will damage the valve seat and cause creep to return. Up is okay, down is not…or err on the side of caution and always evacuate it first.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky, EmptyTin_Tim and sparker
Upvote 0
The tank going down a bit is normal. When you fill the air gets hot as it is compressed. It will cool as it sits in the gun and losing a couple hundred psi is normal. The regulator pressure going up is also quite normal. Yours is only creeping 200 psi over night so that isn’t bad at all. Hell my expensive FX and AGT guns do it. Doesn’t sound like anything is wrong with your avenger.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky, EmptyTin_Tim and sparker
Upvote 0
Yeah that's why I polished the washers and sanded flat on glass my delrin to help that process along. I'm inpatient lol

Most people shoot a whole tin (500) before they think the barrel is leaded in enough and their accuracy improves as things settle and wear in together. Plus 500 times pulling trigger can smooth that a bit. And the washers in the reg wear together etc. Some will use CPHP cheap o pellets to do that then get more quality pellets later. Tin of CPHP is like $8. JSB $20 or so.

Gun will last like 5,000 pellets easy so 500 is just breaking all in.

Not saying don't replace since you have free warranty but just know it isn't uncommon for 200 psi overnight.
 
Upvote 0
I should have mentioned that if it does continue to rise, or if it’s a really severe case of pressure creep, it could be an indication the O-ring on the adjuster screw is giving way to extrusion. But the overwhelming majority of the time, a slow pressure rise is a result of wear or imperfections in the valve seat.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EmptyTin_Tim
Upvote 0
Trucker3573 said:
Ok yeah now you are getting into the un acceptable range. May get better as the reg breaks in. How long do you have to return it ?
Click to expand...
She just gave me the RMA but I have 30 days to act on it. I just did a few drop of oil in the fill port and am going to work the oil through and see how it does after some tweaking and tuning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky and EmptyTin_Tim
Upvote 0
sparker said:
She just gave me the RMA but I have 30 days to act on it. I just did a few drop of oil in the fill port and am going to work the oil through and see how it does after some tweaking and tuning.
Click to expand...
Yeah might just take some shooting. I had a 22 avenger that while it wasn’t as bad as 400 psi creep it did settle after shooting it for a bit to stay rock solid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky
Upvote 0
For what it’s worth, I’ve tried several times and I’ve never been able to link deburring and polishing the washers to improving pressure creep in any meaningful way. If I’m in a regulator and find the Bellevilles have a burr I can detect by feel, I’ll go ahead and knock it off for peace of mind. But surfacing the valve seat to a fine finish works wonders with a creeper.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dogowsky, Painterman and sparker
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu