My best ever 30 shots.

[Guest]

I shot indoors at 25 yards again today. The results of that are shown in Part 5 in the pellets and projectiles section.

This is the best I've ever shot with a spring rifle, indoors or outdoors, at 25 yards. It is a $150.00 rifle. Just imagine how much better this would be if I shot it with one of those "much more accurate" $2500.00 PCPs? Maybe about $2350.00 more accurate?

Anyway the aggregate shows that 95% of 30 shots (28 shots) fell into a circle 8 mm in diameter. The pellets were 4.5mm in diameter, so 95% of the shots fell into a group that was two pellets wide at 25 yards... (1.2 MOA)

Well it ain't a $2500.00 bench rest rifle weighing twenty pounds but at $150 and eight pounds and BONE STOCK. I never even adjusted the trigger. I'd say it is just about shot in now having had maybe 1500 pellets through it. That dog will hunt.

 

[theLBC]

nice shooting!

 

[BigT]

Good shooting! What rifle are you using? My son has a $100 break barrel that shoots pretty good, too.

 

[Guest]

Good shooting! What rifle are you using? My son has a $100 break barrel that shoots pretty good, too.

Well to be honest that is one of those Diana 430Ls that AoA was selling Christmas before last. I expect it is probably a $400.00 rifle if you pay full retail. Even at that it hits well above it's weight. Nobody seemed to want them. So it's not really being honest to call it a $150.00 rifle although that is what they were going for at the time.

I also believe that is about the best I will ever get out of the rifle. My eyes are pretty bad now. I have astigmatism so bad that I get three overlapping images of the moon and have to always remember to shoot at the cross hair on the right. True story.

 

[Alderman]

I’d be happy with that. 

 

[biohazardman]

Pretty darn good shots for a springer for sure. Congrats on your personal best.

 

[Guest]

I’d be happy with that.

Its mostly the rifle, brother. Any one of these serious BR guys could wring a bit more out of it. TBH but don't tell them I said it.

 

[Therealld]

Back in the day, we used to shoot three shot groups in benchrest competition (a true rarity both then and now). The club and range record was 0.342” or so, which was the ctc aggregate of thirty three shot groups (90 shots total). A good friend, Matt Saenz, still holds this record of around 11 yrs, but I was less than a thousandth off his record during the same match. We did shoot precharged guns, but they didn’t cost $2500 …. Closer to half that.

BTW we shot our matches outdoors at 50 yards!

LD

 

[BackStop]

I am always impressed by tight groups using a springer of any type!

However, it will never get me to go back to a springer, of ANY type! (chuckle)

Nice shooting! (smile)

 

[Therealld]

I am always impressed by tight groups using a springer of any type!

However, it will never get me to go back to a springer, of ANY type! (chuckle)

Nice shooting! (smile)

I have lots of springers, and some can shoot some very tight groups, but its more demanding to do, and not as repeatable as when shooting decent precharged guns. I love short-range plinking and informal short range shooting with some of my old springers, as they are perfect for 6 and 10M offhand shooting with target peep sights, and lots of fun. Until I began to have elbow tendon issues, I shot my old Venom stocked HW77 in many, many Field Target matches with decent results. I still have the gun, and shot an International rules event last year with it, but it was tedious to lift it off the rest and cock it for near a hundred precise shots that day …. Too tiring for this old guy.

Horses for courses … its not about using the cheapest thing you can find, its about getting and using what you like. There was a springer back in they day that was cocked by battery power. I wanted to like it, but it wasnt accurate enough … I met the inventor and bought three of his interesting springuns from him at the SHOT SHOW decades ago … Browning sold a few hundred of the electric-cock rifles, but they weren’t a big hit.

I owned several Whiscombe rifles John built me over time … decent, powerful springuns for sure. But i sold them eventually, and prefer my own pcp rifles, as I enjoy using them more than any of many other types I’ve tried. 

 

[Guest]

I’d be happy with that.

Its mostly the rifle, brother. Any one of these serious BR guys could wring a bit more out of it. TBH but don't tell them I said it.

Well then, Alderman, I might have been wrong when I said, "any one" of these serious BR guys, maybe only some of them, eh; I guess some of them are all about talking a great game, outdoors at fifty yards, once upon a time... or maybe they are on a fishing expedition and are just about to post those really hot groups they shot last night in that fifty yard indoor range... sure smells like bait to me. There is your bite. Let's see them. What you used to be able to do is as meaningless as what I used to be able to do.

Once upon a time, I could knock down half-silhouettes at 450 meters prone unsupported with my M16 all day long. Once upon a time I was a rifle marksmanship instructor... Once upon a time I came out in the top three on a rifle competition in the 25th Infantry Division. Would have gone to the Army competition but my commander wouldn't release me. The bugger declared me mission essential. He knew if let me go they would not have sent me back. He was a great guy though. SECOND paragraph is when I served with him.

Oh wait, this thread never was about once upon a time, was it? My bad.

EDIT: I believe there are about 15000 soldiers in an Infantry Division and everyone who shot expert in their last qualification competes. Maybe we should try to get back on topic?

 

[BackStop]

I’d be happy with that.

Its mostly the rifle, brother. Any one of these serious BR guys could wring a bit more out of it. TBH but don't tell them I said it.

Well then, Alderman, I might have been wrong when I said, "any one" of these serious BR guys, maybe only some of them, eh; I guess some of them are all about talking a great game, outdoors at fifty yards, once upon a time... or maybe they are on a fishing expedition and are just about to post those really hot groups they shot last night in that fifty yard indoor range... sure smells like bait to me.

Once upon a time, I could knock down half-silhouettes at 450 meters prone unsupported with my M16 all day long. Once upon a time I was a rifle marksmanship instructor... Once upon a time I came out in the top three on a rifle competition in the 25th Infantry Division. Would have gone to the Army competition but my commander wouldn't release me. The bugger declared me mission essential. He knew if let me go they would not have sent me back. He was a great guy though. SECOND paragraph...

Oh wait, this thread never was about once upon a time, was it? My bad.

EDIT: I believe there are about 15000 soldiers in an Infantry Division..

Trigger control, follow through and brute determination to get the job done. If the rifle can do its part! (smile)

 

[Guest]

I’d be happy with that.

Its mostly the rifle, brother. Any one of these serious BR guys could wring a bit more out of it. TBH but don't tell them I said it.

Well then, Alderman, I might have been wrong when I said, "any one" of these serious BR guys, maybe only some of them, eh; I guess some of them are all about talking a great game, outdoors at fifty yards, once upon a time... or maybe they are on a fishing expedition and are just about to post those really hot groups they shot last night in that fifty yard indoor range... sure smells like bait to me.

Once upon a time, I could knock down half-silhouettes at 450 meters prone unsupported with my M16 all day long. Once upon a time I was a rifle marksmanship instructor... Once upon a time I came out in the top three on a rifle competition in the 25th Infantry Division. Would have gone to the Army competition but my commander wouldn't release me. The bugger declared me mission essential. He knew if let me go they would not have sent me back. He was a great guy though. SECOND paragraph...

Oh wait, this thread never was about once upon a time, was it? My bad.

EDIT: I believe there are about 15000 soldiers in an Infantry Division..

Trigger control, follow through and brute determination to get the job done. If the rifle can do its part! (smile)

He Jerked that shot. No rifle can recover from that.

Maybe next time. Thanks for the compliment on the shooting. Hopefully more proof that rolling pellets works will follow... but if I get other results... I'll be the first to post them either way... because I learned a long, long time ago that the experts aren't always right but the data doesn't lie.

 

[Guest]

Back in the day, we used to shoot three shot groups in benchrest competition (a true rarity both then and now). The club and range record was 0.342” or so, which was the ctc aggregate of thirty three shot groups (90 shots total). A good friend, Matt Saenz, still holds this record of around 11 yrs, but I was less than a thousandth off his record during the same match. We did shoot precharged guns, but they didn’t cost $2500 …. Closer to half that.

BTW we shot our matches outdoors at 50 yards!

LD

The thing about three shot groups: It is the smallest number of shots where you can locate the Steiner point. Three shot groups at such a short distance generally print far enough apart on the paper (with a springer) to allow target processing software to allow you to make ACCURATE aggregates. Five shot groups that small are simply a blob and you are always guessing where a shot went and 30 one shot groups are just a pain in the ass to aggregate... so three shots is sometimes just right when you are processing large volumes of data.

It is frustrating to spend that kind of money on a toy and never be able to even approach the performance of PB rifles costing half as much but I guess if you feel the need to burnish the shine on that PCP, by all means, get it out and shoot that target at 25 yards on your indoor range. I am sure you will halve that 3.91mm dispersion radius. Mike did it at 50 outdoors. It should be as easy as kicking a puppy. So go for it if it floats your boat.

I always enjoy seeing what a good PCP rifle can do in the hands of a real rifleman. Hang that target right here. You can get it in the targets download section. Shoot it on a BR target one shot per bull and I'll help you aggregate it. No problem. I saw one posted the other day that was quite impressive, with a springer. Far above my meager skills. That was a response to me telling him to impress me. He did.

 

[OldSpook]