My first purchase! Need opinions!

[AirgunnerMike]

Im looking to purchase my first air gun! Right now I'm torn between two options. The Hatsan BT65 Carnivore .30 cal and the Hatsan Flash QE Wood .25 cal. Obviously the beauty of the Wood Flash is a big selling point. My main concern is FPE. I want to be able to take out medium sized game. I know I can do this with the .30 and I believe its maybe possible with the .25 but a lot less likely. So then why not get the .30 cal? Well two things. The main one being availability of pellets. I love the variety that .25 has when it comes to pellet selection. The other reason is until I have some more money Im going to be using a hand pump. I imagin Im going to get less shots out of the .30 per fill. I even considered going for the Umarex Origin .25 because of their ever pressure system. So... what do you guys think? I can always buy another rifle in the future. Would love some input to help me decide. Thanks

 

[Sqwirl57]

What do you concider "medium game" exactly? I use a 47fpe .25 cal for game up to red fox sized. The other big question is, how far do you expect to be able to take medium game at?

 

[AirgunnerMike]

What do you concider "medium game" exactly? I use a 47fpe .25 cal for game up to red fox sized.

A fox certainly would be medium. But I want to push it to maybe even coyote size?

 

[Sqwirl57]

A fox certainly would be medium. But I want to push it to maybe even coyote size?

I'm fairly certain I could take a typical sized coyote with my .25 if I absolutely needed to but some of those buggers get pretty big. A .30 wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

[AirgunnerMike]

I'm fairly certain I could take a typical sized coyote with my .25 if I absolutely needed to but some of those buggers get pretty big. A .30 wouldn't be a bad choice.

That's what I'm thinking but I just love the variety of pellets that the .25 cal offers. I've still got about a week before i make my purchase so I'm gonna have to do some thinking. Thanks for your input!

 

[JimD]

It takes significantly less fpe to kill an animal with a brain shot than it does with a body shot. It also takes a bigger hole to kill a larger animal quickly with a body shot. My 25 Avenger is tuned to about 45 fpe and will shoot through 3/4 plywood or MDF at 25 yards. It will shoot through 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I would be confident of a clean kill on a coyote as far away as I can place the shot well into it's skull (which would not be 100 yards but probably at least 50).

So if you are OK using brain shots on the biggest animals you envision taking and if the flash can be tuned up around 45 fpe then I think it could do what you describe doing.

 

[AirgunnerMike]

It takes significantly less fpe to kill an animal with a brain shot than it does with a body shot. It also takes a bigger hole to kill a larger animal quickly with a body shot. My 25 Avenger is tuned to about 45 fpe and will shoot through 3/4 plywood or MDF at 25 yards. It will shoot through 1/2 inch at 100 yards. I would be confident of a clean kill on a coyote as far away as I can place the shot well into it's skull (which would not be 100 yards but probably at least 50).

So if you are OK using brain shots on the biggest animals you envision taking and if the flash can be tuned up around 45 fpe then I think it could do what you describe doing.

The Flash gets up to 40 FPE. I think I’m just going to go with the .30 cal and hopefully it’s not too big for me to hunt small game. Thank you for your reply Jim !

 

[Emu]

Spend once!!!

Buy a Vulcan 3 700 mm .25 Cal.

you may not buy better accuracy nor shots per fill, quality, dependability and nothing easier to give service your self.

just the very Best Buy in the market. And includes two magazines.

more expensive? Yes but will last forever and if you decide to buy an extra rifle you would be conviced to buy another rifle form Airgun Technology.

 

[Gerry52]

The .30 Carnivore is LOUD without a moderator & to get one to work efficiently it needs to go on the SHROUD not the barrel making a long, heavy gun even longer & heavier. If it were me, I would watch the classifieds for a used Royale 500 (good luck) or a Taipan (good luck). I started out with Hatsans (AT44, 22cal, BT65, 22 & 25cal & a Carnivore .30). While I worked hard to get the most out of them & became a decent shooter it wasn't until I got a Royale that I realized that the feel, fit, finish, accuracy & reliability of Hatsans just don't compare to a better level of gun. If you ever get to cock & shoot a Royale or Taipan & compare it to a BT65 or Carnivore you'd know immediately what I'm talking about. If you DO get the Hatsan & ever need advice or help reach out to me. Best of luck to you.

 

[Emu]

If you want a real hunter (deer included) and you will be shooting where there's no danger for neightbors, then buy this one used. You will pay $300 less than for a new one:

 

[Emu]

But you will need to buy from Talón Tunes the probe and, if you want, the second magazine normally included with new rifle.

 

[Emu]

Vulcan 3. 30 Cal shots the JSB Hades and the Daystate Howler Slugs really well.!!!

 

[esingle]

Hello like several have said if your budget allows it you may want to get a higher quality rifle. There have been some really good deals on the classified section in the last few weeks. Well good luck in what you decide Eric.

 

[Calbarry]

The .30 Carnivore is LOUD without a moderator & to get one to work efficiently it needs to go on the SHROUD not the barrel making a long, heavy gun even longer & heavier. If it were me, I would watch the classifieds for a used Royale 500 (good luck) or a Taipan (good luck). I started out with Hatsans (AT44, 22cal, BT65, 22 & 25cal & a Carnivore .30). While I worked hard to get the most out of them & became a decent shooter it wasn't until I got a Royale that I realized that the feel, fit, finish, accuracy & reliability of Hatsans just don't compare to a better level of gun. If you ever get to cock & shoot a Royale or Taipan & compare it to a BT65 or Carnivore you'd know immediately what I'm talking about. If you DO get the Hatsan & ever need advice or help reach out to me. Best of luck to you.

My friend has a BT65. The first time I cocked it, I thought something was stuck. You have to almost manhandle it to cock it. He sold it because it was so hard to cock

 

[JimD]

A 25 tunable to 45 fpe does not need to be expensive. My Avenger was only $300 but it's gone up to $350 now, I think. If you want a bullpup there is an Avenger bullpup for about $400. I don't think you'd need to do more than change the regulator and hammer spring to get them to at least 45, I would expect 50 fpe or a little more with heavy pellets.

I really like my P35s. I turned my 25 caliber down to low 30s but I think you could get 45 fpe out of one with 33.95s. They are under $500 and can actually be used without spending a bunch more for a moderator. With a simple $1.50 hair curler shroud mod you can get them to 85db or a bit less. This capability saves length on the rifle as well as dollars. The Avengers look cheaper but if you add a DonnyFL you may spend more. But the Avengers have longer barrels so they will tend to give you more power.

I don't want to confuse the issue but once you commit to brain shots a powerful 22 caliber PCP will probably do it. 22 caliber pellets come in a much wider variety of designs and weights and tend to be less expensive. 30 caliber pellets are much worse for variety and price. I see nothing wrong with that choice as long as you factor in the ammo price/availability difference. No reason you cannot shoot a squirrel with a 30 caliber and I really like my 25s effect on squirrels but the last couple I harvested was with a 177. Shot placement is the key and bigger calibers do not solve the need for correct shot placement. I'm sure I shoot 20 pellets on paper for every one I shoot at an animal. It's probably closer to 100 on paper for every one I shoot at an animal. At 30 cal prices that could get a bit expensive.

 

[Gerry52]

@Calbarry, they do get easier to cock over time, though not much. That Vulcan up above would be great. Those definitely shoot & feel like a better airgun.

 

[Dr. Kralenstein]

Lol, everyone ALWAYS says buy this $$$$ gun. The guy obviously is getting his feet wet AND even said he won't have a compressor for a bit.

Get the flash in 25, adjust the hammer spring to get 2 mags/20 shots at 45 fpe like they will do, and go for side of the head shots at 50 yards and under and you're good. Itll still be backyard friendly quiet, and hand pump friendly.

How do I know? I own a 25 vectis and had a 25 hydra, its the same valve/hammer/barrel setup and they will do 45 fpe with the right pellet and tune.

If you are handy and do some porting and raise the pressure up about 300 psi above the "limit", it will get you in the 50 fpe range.

 

[thammer]

I have .30cal Bighorns on sale through the End of the month. 36 shots at 900fps with JSB 44.75 is about where they come out of the box. I install a new delrin seal and upgrade the hammerspring before shipping. My post is in the Industy section at the top of the page. I'm a vendor here. Scope not included but does come threaded 1/2-20 for a moderator.

 

[AirgunnerMike]

Spend once!!!

Buy a Vulcan 3 700 mm .25 Cal.

you may not buy better accuracy nor shots per fill, quality, dependability and nothing easier to give service your self.

just the very Best Buy in the market. And includes two magazines.

more expensive? Yes but will last forever and if you decide to buy an extra rifle you would be convicted to buy another rifle form Airgun Technology.

Lol, everyone ALWAYS says buy this $$$$ gun. The guy obviously is getting his feet wet AND even said he won't have a compressor for a bit.

Get the flash in 25, adjust the hammer spring to get 2 mags/20 shots at 45 fpe like they will do, and go for side of the head shots at 50 yards and under and you're good. Itll still be backyard friendly quiet, and hand pump friendly.

How do I know? I own a 25 vectis and had a 25 hydra, its the same valve/hammer/barrel setup and they will do 45 fpe with the right pellet and tune.

If you are handy and do some porting and raise the pressure up about 300 psi above the "limit", it will get you in the 50 fpe range.

Yes a lot of these suggested guns are far out of my price range. Though i do very much appreciate all of the feedback. Do you think the BT65 is too loud like Jim mentioned above? I dont need to worry about it being quiet in the backyard.

The .30 Carnivore is LOUD without a moderator & to get one to work efficiently it needs to go on the SHROUD not the barrel making a long, heavy gun even longer & heavier. If it were me, I would watch the classifieds for a used Royale 500 (good luck) or a Taipan (good luck). I started out with Hatsans (AT44, 22cal, BT65, 22 & 25cal & a Carnivore .30). While I worked hard to get the most out of them & became a decent shooter it wasn't until I got a Royale that I realized that the feel, fit, finish, accuracy & reliability of Hatsans just don't compare to a better level of gun. If you ever get to cock & shoot a Royale or Taipan & compare it to a BT65 or Carnivore you'd know immediately what I'm talking about. If you DO get the Hatsan & ever need advice or help reach out to me. Best of luck

So it seems between the two, the better option would be the Flash. A headshot in my opinion is always preferred (im going to be doing a lot of practice before i go out hunting) And I am aware of the difficulty to cock the bolt but I didnt think it was a big enough deal to deter me away from buying the gun.

 

[AirgunnerMike]

A 25 tunable to 45 fpe does not need to be expensive. My Avenger was only $300 but it's gone up to $350 now, I think. If you want a bullpup there is an Avenger bullpup for about $400. I don't think you'd need to do more than change the regulator and hammer spring to get them to at least 45, I would expect 50 fpe or a little more with heavy pellets.

I really like my P35s. I turned my 25 caliber down to low 30s but I think you could get 45 fpe out of one with 33.95s. They are under $500 and can actually be used without spending a bunch more for a moderator. With a simple $1.50 hair curler shroud mod you can get them to 85db or a bit less. This capability saves length on the rifle as well as dollars. The Avengers look cheaper but if you add a DonnyFL you may spend more. But the Avengers have longer barrels so they will tend to give you more power.

I don't want to confuse the issue but once you commit to brain shots a powerful 22 caliber PCP will probably do it. 22 caliber pellets come in a much wider variety of designs and weights and tend to be less expensive. 30 caliber pellets are much worse for variety and price. I see nothing wrong with that choice as long as you factor in the ammo price/availability difference. No reason you cannot shoot a squirrel with a 30 caliber and I really like my 25s effect on squirrels but the last couple I harvested was with a 177. Shot placement is the key and bigger calibers do not solve the need for correct shot placement. I'm sure I shoot 20 pellets on paper for every one I shoot at an animal. It's probably closer to 100 on paper for every one I shoot at an animal. At 30 cal prices that could get a bit expensive.

I should say the thing that is really getting me is the fact that I will only be paying $40 extra for 40 extra FPE. They have a refurbished BT65 on Hatsan right now for very cheap. I feel like i should take advantage of the deal. BUT if you truly think I can achieve a coyote-sized kill with the Flash then that might just be the better option.