Mythbusting Precision BR
- Thread starter thomasair
- Start date
Does this mean I can't scream "Dear God, Why Me???"BOOM! Very good post.
Fixed it for you NoMo.
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This is one of the first lessons that I learned as well as torque values on the action and type of bipod used in certain other disciplines. I now have a collection of bipods, one piece rests, two piece rests and bags. Even the type of sand that you use makes a difference. Most of you know this already but it was a long learning process for me.
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I'm late to the thread, but since both airguns and embroidery are interests of mine, I felt a need to add to the discussion.
I've been shooting airguns for decades, but only recently got into the 100 yard benchrest game, with September's Pyramyd Cup being my first competitive attempt. I met my own modest goal, and enjoyed the experience enough to continue, regardless of what equipment advantage the others competitors may or may not have. I am enjoying the challenge of learning a particular setup and getting it to perform at its most optimum. The setup pictured here is my current rig, although it is not the one I used for the Cup.
On the matter of embroidery, my wife and I have taken up chainstitching over the last 18 months, which involves the use of a hand operated machine as opposed to modern computerized embroidery. Our primary machine is a Singer 114W103 that was made around 1933, and the operator guides the stitches via a hand crank positioned under the table. The particular shirt pictured is modeled after the graphics on my grandfather's circa 1940s hatchery trucks. I entered it in competition at our county fair, and despite the fact that most of the other entries used programmable stitching machines, I came out on top and took home the blue ribbon in the "machine embroidery" class.
Hopefully some of this success against the odds will carry over into my shooting pursuits...I'll be back for the PA Cup again next year, wearing an airgun-themed chainstitched shirt!
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Can you give a rundown of that rig. I see the plenum extension, barrel index bushing, & the barrel tuner. Factory barrel ? Factory internals?, etc..
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The plenum, barrel index, and tuner are all Kinetic Security Solutions pieces. Barrel is what came with the gun, so LW I assume in .25 caliber. Internals are all stock. Shooting 34 grain pellets at 910 to 925 fps. Scope is Sightron SIII 8-32x56 PLR with MIL reticle mounted on FX No Limit rings. Other bits include a CARM single shot loader, Gray Ops ARCA rail, 700cc bottle, RAW Roc Loc weight system, Accu-Tac FC-5 bipod, MK Machining scope level, STO FALX moderator, PRS adjustable buttplate with monopod, and an eye blinder of my own design. Gun was only a few months old when I purchased it off eBay. Originally came from HPP with the upgraded bottle.
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I've been lurking in this thread since it started. I shoot positional type events but mainly focus on WRABF events now. My take is this from the last 15 years of competitive precision shooting.
Equipment matters 100% but wind reading ability and mental management matter just as much.
I've seen people come and go from CF BR and F-Class, RF BR and I'm getting into Air aswell now. Those people are usually close minded and arnt willing to understand what it takes to perform at a high level.
I look forward to seeing the results of the showdown between Tony and Mike. Someone please stream it for me.
Equipment matters 100% but wind reading ability and mental management matter just as much.
I've seen people come and go from CF BR and F-Class, RF BR and I'm getting into Air aswell now. Those people are usually close minded and arnt willing to understand what it takes to perform at a high level.
I look forward to seeing the results of the showdown between Tony and Mike. Someone please stream it for me.
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Even though the 10 ring spread in the N50 pro class is about 1 MOA....it will take a consistent 1/4 MOA gun or better to be competitive with the top shooters.
Mike
Mike
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Ah… That’s a good way to describe it. Mental management. Often, during a card, my mind wanders - then a miss.
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What are the key variables/ adjustments that good shooters test to "tune" the rifle position on a one piece or two piece rest?
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There is not much you can do but try as many combinations of position as you can.
I have 5 different front tops for my one piece and actually 6 different rear supports....plus multiple rear bags for the two piece.
They are all different and finding the right combination can make a big difference. Once you find the right supports you still have to find the right places. It can be exhausting. As Tim said, you can't just plop the rifle on anything and expect the best out of it. Sometimes you can get lucky and hit something pretty good right out of the gate....but if you have a lot of things to try, you will try them anyway...so you really won't save any time.
Mike
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Wow! A very interesting thread indeed. As a casual shooter, and lover of all things shooting sports, this thread was very informative. When I think benchrest, like some of the folks here, I pictured guys with rifles, and pods, going at it from a distance. Because well... That's what I'm used to seeing. After reading this thread i think I have a better understanding of what high level precision bench rest is. Unlimited, tech heavy, shooting at a distance for maximum precision. It almost sounds as though, if one could design a box type device, that could launch a pellet, and within this box, were computers that could read, and predict wind, aim with surgical precision, and communicate wirelessly... One could send this box to a PBR match, have someone set it on the bench, and tell the owner what time the match starts; then said owner of box simply sets a timer, for the box to begin punching it's holes. All being done remotely from say... a beach in Maui, while the match is in Idaho. Afterall, if you don't have to be touching the gun, what difference does proximity really make. Just hit enter, and wait for others to finish. Now if you built such a box, I'm sure some fellas from DARPA would be glad to hire you, and you could become very wealthy. And i dont doubt that if someone entered a PBR match, and had one of these high tech boxes; walked up, and set it on the bench, went and grabbed a hot dog, and sat in the bleachers watching his Box crush these previously highest level bench shooters... These guys would be pissed. At least some of them.
And if the only goal is accuracy, at any cost, with no limitations; this box would seem to be perfectly legit in this specific kind of shooting event. Why not?
On the other hand I can see some of the other folks point about the mastery of human form factor involved in the more traditional shooting events.Thats the kind of shooting I, and probably most people are most familiar with. And it definitely brings different variables to the table, and showcases shooters abilities to mitigate these variables at a physical level. While if I understand what I've read here PBR simply seeks to eliminate these variables, no holds barred. Just two very different things.
As an aside; someone earlier in the thread laid out a framework for a competitive shoot that while I think was meant for sarcasm; actually sounded like a well thought out fun time. One other thought from an outsider looking in. And this isn't me challenging anyone, or throwing down a gauntlet. I understand that many, if not all of you PBR shooters worked your way up through different shooting disciplines to arrive at PBR. However to say PBR shooters would beat most others even without the unlimited amount of tech help... I have my doubts. Generally speaking. For those with a winning history in this kind of shooting prior tho PBR "yes". Probably many of the times. But if a new shooter comes on the scene, and straight away is totally taken with PBR, invests in it, and gets pretty darn good at it, competitively speaking. I find it highly unlikely that that same shooter could step away from the gadgets and still put a spanking on the other guys who were calling the gear a crutch, or otherwise criticizing PBR; just because he can read wind better... There is just no way.
Any how those were just my observations freely given, and worth every penny if I do say so myself. It's been an educational thread, and kinda shows why there are so many different facets of the shooting sports. Different folks are just into different things...
And if the only goal is accuracy, at any cost, with no limitations; this box would seem to be perfectly legit in this specific kind of shooting event. Why not?
On the other hand I can see some of the other folks point about the mastery of human form factor involved in the more traditional shooting events.Thats the kind of shooting I, and probably most people are most familiar with. And it definitely brings different variables to the table, and showcases shooters abilities to mitigate these variables at a physical level. While if I understand what I've read here PBR simply seeks to eliminate these variables, no holds barred. Just two very different things.
As an aside; someone earlier in the thread laid out a framework for a competitive shoot that while I think was meant for sarcasm; actually sounded like a well thought out fun time. One other thought from an outsider looking in. And this isn't me challenging anyone, or throwing down a gauntlet. I understand that many, if not all of you PBR shooters worked your way up through different shooting disciplines to arrive at PBR. However to say PBR shooters would beat most others even without the unlimited amount of tech help... I have my doubts. Generally speaking. For those with a winning history in this kind of shooting prior tho PBR "yes". Probably many of the times. But if a new shooter comes on the scene, and straight away is totally taken with PBR, invests in it, and gets pretty darn good at it, competitively speaking. I find it highly unlikely that that same shooter could step away from the gadgets and still put a spanking on the other guys who were calling the gear a crutch, or otherwise criticizing PBR; just because he can read wind better... There is just no way.
Any how those were just my observations freely given, and worth every penny if I do say so myself. It's been an educational thread, and kinda shows why there are so many different facets of the shooting sports. Different folks are just into different things...
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Yeah I have my Thomas in a field target stock at the moment. I bolted a 3” block on the foreend and when I shoot it on my one piece rest it doesn’t recoil consistently. Sometimes it moves back from battery and sometimes it stays put.There is not much you can do but try as many combinations of position as you can.
I have 5 different front tops for my one piece and actually 6 different rear supports....plus multiple rear bags for the two piece.
They are all different and finding the right combination can make a big difference. Once you find the right supports you still have to find the right places. It can be exhausting. As Tim said, you can't just plop the rifle on anything and expect the best out of it. Sometimes you can get lucky and hit something pretty good right out of the gate....but if you have a lot of things to try, you will try them anyway...so you really won't save any time.
Mike
If for some reason I’m still seeing this in the BR stock I should change to a roller top (so it recoils on every shot) or increase friction so it doesn’t. At nearly 20ft-lb, a 13lb gun doesn’t recoil freely unless there is very little friction.
I think another factor is the elevation difference between the front and rear contact areas. Flat foreend stocks need to be parallel to the front rest surface and not angled front to back. That way gravity loads and friction contact surfaces are consistent.
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I really enjoy these threads ! some day i would like to attend a Top level match . Reality on my part is , I really enjoy holding the gun . I have tried one piece and two piece rests, worked with them for a few years on and off, and have learned i just like holding my gun to my shoulder and finger on the trigger .
I'm old and slow , but fairly accurate . Casual accurate is the term i use .
Stan in KY .
I'm old and slow , but fairly accurate . Casual accurate is the term i use .
Stan in KY .
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