National Air Arms Association

[Deleted 45061]

I love Airguns, they've been a huge part of my life for over 30 years. The past 5 years I've made a living off them and have enjoyed every minute. The laws pertaining to them are progressive in reflection to the popularity and advancements. What irritates me beyond belief is these entities (several of them) claiming that they are fighting for our rights but in reality the goal is to sell more of one particular product. To me these entities need to be more transparent with who they really represent..... otherwise it's deceitful to all of us. Recently I was asked to sign a letter and after careful consideration I declined for the above reasons.

Yeah agreed. I think transparency is the key. If they have a sponsor page and it has X,Y,Z company on it, of course those companies are going to have the greatest influence on how said organization is going to operate, which is fine by me as long as I can assess where they are coming from and what their goals/agendas are. If those ideas overall are what I value, then I tend to support them. If they have a board of directors page etc I take note of the names. I think this next year there will be a few others that will be pretty active/starting. Hopefully the industry rounds out and becomes a bit less of a prolonged infomercial...sometimes I disengage from Airgun content completely because 90% is essentially product placement. Speaking of, I liked how objective you were on the Fux 1143. I wish others would follow your example.

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

I saw the Aircuda at shotshow and its sister product. Very well balanced. It should be another good option though I've had no shooting experience with them. I believe the parent company of JTS is Xisico? Or am I mistaken?

Correct, I had both the Standard and the Max in .25 in my hands now for over 6 months and they are good guns, no problems whatsoever.

 

[otis1016]

Shooting is always going to be attacked by those who want big brother to take care of them and do nothing to take care of themselves. I see a lot of this on the west coast and other large urban areas nationwide. Here in the Deep South I don’t know many households that don’t have at least one practical firearm and usually more than one. My approach to promoting shooting has been to introduce it to kids around age 6 or so. The Daisy Red Ryder is perfect. I can teach a kid how to shoot and make sure they understand safety at all times. It doesn’t cost much and can instill a sense of pride early in life. As they get older many will learn more and get proficient in shooting while others will find different pursuits but they will have learned early that they are capable of succeeding at something that requires time and work. I suspect current ‘leadership’ in this country would discourage such independent thinking. I’ve been shooting since I was about 4 and got seriously into airgunning only in the last couple of years but it’s clearly a great place to be with many good people. That should be a large part of what we demonstrate to newbies and to those who question or motives.

Rick H.

 

[Pneumaddict]

This sport doesn’t need anymore “growing”. It’s just fine the way it is.

 

[BackStop]

Here are just several of the current market offerings:

Benjamin Fortitude .22 Air Rifle: Airguns of Arizona

Air Venturi Avenger | PCP Hunting Air Rifle | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on the Air Venturi Avenger, Regulated PCP Air Rifle. Get a great price and expert advice at Pyramyd for your next outdoor adventure!

www.pyramydair.com

Umarex Gauntlet | Synthetic PCP Air Rifle | Pyramyd AIR

We've got a great price on the Umarex Gauntlet PCP Air Rifle, Synthetic Stock. Get a great price and expert advice at Pyramyd for your next outdoor adventure!

www.pyramydair.com

There are more in that price point for under $300 bucks, but I am picking a couple of the ones my friends like the most/ones I've shot. If your wanting a company like Kalibrgun to make their airguns for $300, it won't happen. Some things really can't be done. Still, the budget options above get shooters having fun with their friends in the backyard and yes, growing the sport. One nice thing about a lot of these larger airgun companies is that they do sponsor organizations like the Airgun Sporting Associations.

Kind regards,
-Atlas

If you will look at Crosman's site, the Fortitude is now ~$455... This is a $300 or less gun, not a $455 gun.

Actually, I just went to the Crosman site and when I click the link to the .177 or .22 Fortitude links, both take me to a page for the Marauder. Check it yourself.

So, it looks like Crosman is discontinuing the Fortitude. None have been available at the new $455 price anyway.

Just don't talk about "growing the sport" when all you really want to do is sell really expensive airguns. I know blatant "marketing" when I see it.

No offense taken. (chuckle)

 

[Deleted 45061]

If you will look at Crosman's site, the Fortitude is now ~$455... This is a $300 or less gun, not a $455 gun.

Actually, I just went to the Crosman site and when I click the link to the .177 or .22 Fortitude links, both take me to a page for the Marauder. Check it yourself.

So, it looks like Crosman is discontinuing the Fortitude. None have been available at the new $455 price anyway.

Just don't talk about "growing the sport" when all you really want to do is sell really expensive airguns. I know blatant "marketing" when I see it.

No offense taken. (chuckle)

The link I sent you was to Airguns of Arizona whose listed price for the Fortitude is $289.99 or so, which is a fair price or at least it is to me. I haven't contacted Crosman about the Fortitude's continued production but I will right now, but either way you still get a 5 year warranty on the item so that wouldn't matter to me. The other link was to the Gauntlet, also a fair price IMO. If you think they should be more affordable then maybe buy used or wait for sales. I believe the Avenger option I listed sometimes has a small reduction in price through PA. Three different companies and three different offerings, but maybe I will post a thread with other affordable options in general. I personally have drifted to the higher end airguns because I find they have more value, but that is just my opinion and to each their own.

Hope you find what your looking for,

-Atlas

*Following up: I contacted Crosman and because of the perceived obsolescence of the line they will be discontinuing it. They currently have 168 models in .177 and making one last batch of the .22. Obviously the 5 year warranty still holds.

 

[BackStop]

The link I sent you was to Airguns of Arizona whose listed price for the Fortitude is $289.99 or so, which is a fair price or at least it is to me. I haven't contacted Crosman about the Fortitude's continued production but I will right now, but either way you still get a 5 year warranty on the item so that wouldn't matter to me. The other link was to the Gauntlet, also a fair price IMO. If you think they should be more affordable then maybe buy used or wait for sales. I believe the Avenger option I listed sometimes has a small reduction in price through PA. Three different companies and three different offerings, but maybe I will post a thread with other affordable options in general. I personally have drifted to the higher end airguns because I find they have more value, but that is just my opinion and to each their own.

Hope you find what your looking for,

-Atlas

*Following up: I contacted Crosman and because of the perceived obsolescence of the line they will be discontinuing it. They currently have 168 models in .177 and making one last batch of the .22. Obviously the 5 year warranty still holds.

If you will look at my signature, you will see that I already OWN a .177 Fortitude Gen2. So I am not talking out of my ass.

And if, as it seems, Crosman is discontinuing the Fortitude, then that makes the AOA offering even less inviting.

I bought mine for ~$238 (with the now defunct AGN discount of 25%) and that IS just about what is was worth then and now.

Thanks for checking with Crosman as I was only surmising that they have actually stopped making the Fortitude. Now we all know I was right. (grin)

 

[Deleted 45061]

If you will look at my signature, you will see that I already OWN a .177 Fortitude Gen2. So I am not talking out of my ass.

And if, as it seems, Crosman is discontinuing the Fortitude, then that makes the AOA offering even less inviting.

I bought mine for ~$238 (with the now defunct AGN discount of 25%) and that IS just about what is was worth then and now.

Thanks for checking with Crosman as I was only surmising that they have actually stopped making the Fortitude. Now we all know I was right. (grin)

Yeah definitely unfortunate they are discontinuing the line. It was a very nice option for people getting into the sport. Another alternative for those seeking to get the bug is the $300 and up springers like the Dianas and HW95s/35s and so on. A mid priced TX200 or HW77 in the $500s will get you a self reliant package that is out of this world in accuracy and give you a door for competing...with the savings from not buying a compressor, handpump, or tank that is a really nice option for newbies too. I had a hw95 I got new for $350 and that is an amazing rifle and so easy to shoot.


Glad you got your Fortitude when you could. I suspect people will buy those up fast. The other airgun I keep forgetting is the DAR line. I've had some friends that love them and some that absolutely hated them, but when we are talking affordable options that is a good one. And another one that just came to mind is the Origin with the handpump (I think $299 is the listed price usually)...pretty good package for a beginner. I'll make that thread tomorrow if I get a chance

 

[The Lords Hand]

There was some discussion the other day about what could be done to further our sport and protect it's growth and prevent future regulation.

Some people were for the idea of "flying below the RADAR". Let's censor our words and not talk about issues with terms which are already in use in the arms industry. You know use "cutsey" names for things which are regulated, even if said regulation does not apply to our sport. BAD THINKING TO MY MIND.

First of all, how do you grow a sport you are trying to hide? That's kind of counter productive, isn't it? Second, why live in fear of what might happen when you can take steps to head it off. I posted in that thread that there was nothing which could be done. I was wrong about that. I even made a fair enough case that assertion was correct in a PM exchange with devnull (because politics should be kept between consenting adults in PMs). I was wrong there too.

If we want to protect this industry, in this country, we need a national organization, like the NRA (but apparently not the NRA... because... fear and loathing in California I guess?). We need an organization that can represent our industry and which carries the clout of a million or two million airgunners.

SO VENDORS, MANUFACTURERS, and FORUM OPERATORS ... There is your challenge. Stop censoring the speech of YOUR PATRONS and get together and BUILD THAT ORGANIZATION before the regulators notice you anyway.

Just my two...

Define the "sport" first off. Ive read through so many posts on this forum from new people asking for specific advice on lower/entry price only to get hijacked by people who want to say high priced guns or nothing. So is the sport plinking? Is it hunting? Is it ranked matches for trophies(how many people actually do that)? Is it for overpriced toys to show off? We all know about midlife crisis and sport cars. I think this "sport" is any desire to pick up ANY gun and master it in any compacity. And this goes back to mastering a slingshot as a child with acorns. To just get into airguns you certainly dont have to spend a ton of money. Theres many many break barrels that quality control aside are accurate enough to be reliable and enjoyable. And the best part is its easy enough to do in any reasonable sized back yard(my 2 favorite yard plinkers are t he ruger explorer and crosman tyro, both accurate and quiet for under $100). I work at a gun/hunting range and have access to many firearms but i prefer airguns because i can do them at home or the range for much cheaper. And airsoft? Oh you airgun guys who like a challenge. Try putting back spin on a .25 gram bb with a adjustable rubber bucking/packing just right to hit someone at 200 feet. Those kids do more tinkering with their guns internals than alot of airgunners do. I think this community shoots itself in the foot often when new people show up asking question. Also id like to note that both the club i work at and the airsoft fields i play at have seen a up tick in new youth participants. Many with parents either watching or directly participating. So some of this could just boil down to any number of things like regional activities, marketing, school participation. Several of my coworkers went to state for trap. Either way i think the more inviting we make these sports for new people the better.

 

[SilentSquirrel]

Sceptic that I am, for me there is no compelling reason to join the The Airgun Sporting Association.
From the first paragraph of their mission statement, it is obvious that the organization represents the industry versus the individual airgun owner,

The Airgun Sporting Association has been formed as a non-profit business league as described in section 501(c)(6) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended, to promote the common business interests of its members.

And yes, I have read the entire Mission Statement as well
It seems like joining an agricultural lobby group because I buy lettuce at the supermarket.

I will however subscribe to their newsletter in the hope of being proven wrong

Just my 2 cents
Ed

 

[cavedweller]

Form follows function or does function determine form? Long gone are my youthful days of BB guns and multi pump pellet guns. Back in those days it was difficult to get into really bad trouble with those aforementioned toys. Now it’s a different story - it wasn’t too long ago in my area where a drugged up teen with an automatic BB gun shot 3 people, two joggers, one who had a front tooth cracked and a savy bicyclist, who after being stung several times in her back, still managed to get a license plate and a description which resulted in arrest and conviction.
Once a fairly safe, single shot hobby, transforms into a sport with equipment that includes automatic high FPE weaponry, legislation is inevitable. I’m aware that it’s considered political in nature to discuss this, but if we, as a community of people, who love our airgun hobbies don’t address the trends and powers that are creating more and more lethal airguns, we have already lost more than just our youthful innocence and the entire sport or hobby is at risk. Just my thoughts.