Need help building/understanding a proper filtration system

[Lynx]

I will preface this by saying that my needs are a bit different as I am an airsoft user that transitioned to an HPA platform; the amount of mostly educated knowledge on here convinced me it's the best place to ask (especially a user by the name of "Humdinger")

My plan of action:

1. Buy a Tuxing compressor, specifically the TXET062.

2. Purchase a Tuxing Golden Filter.

3. Properly assemble the filter with the best medium.

I will need the above mentioned set-up to fill 0.8l, 3000 PSI bottles so, with these in mind details, here are my questions:

1. On the compressor's page it says it works without oil, so why should I bother with filtering mediums targeting that as well? Isn't water from compression the singular issue?

2. From my understanding, mediums such as activated charcoal are "gimmicky" in the sense that you don't care about odor or similar aspects, just moisture, meaning you'd only need molecular sieves, as they are more efficient than silica gel beads, especially at high pressures, right?

3. The user I've mentioned says you need a good "water separating tower" before this filter, but what even is that? Just another filter full of cotton, so that the bulk of the moisture is stopped before the second filter?

 

[Humdinger]

@Lynx, thanks for the kind words. I looked up that Tuxing T062 compressor. You get what you pay for in high pressure compressors. I wouldn't touch that one personally, as it probably won't last a year if you run it regularly. It definitely would be a waste to pair that tiny compressor with a large gold filter as it has as much space to compress in the filter as in your air rifle. There is a lot more empty space in that filter than you might imagine and the T062 output would take 10 minutes each time you turn it on just to compress the space in that filter. A little compressor like that has a form of moisture removal that is minimalistic. It is a very small centrifugal space set behind that brass bleed valve on the side of the compressors. Bigger better compressors have much more sophisticated water separators built inside.

I would suggest you at least look at the GX CS-3 or GX CS4 or CS4i. More money up front but much better durability and if you're just filling .8L rifle tanks then you can do without a gold filter until you really know you love the hobby and will be filling bigger tanks. Just my .02.

 

[WorriedMan]

Much appreciated buddy! I doubt I'll make 10 posts as my engagement with air rifles is 0, but since it's super likely I'll need help in the future with the compressor set-up (hopefully not though haha) would you mind sending me a private message with your discord, if you have one? Or an e-mail? Or anything I could use to contact you in the future, if need be? o7

Looks like 10 posts is in the bag, 8, or 9 days, you're good to PM and use Member Classifieds. Nothing against helping out, acting within forum rules is best, IMO. I'm no expert but have picked up a few tips hanging around here, very glad to share, just as members have with me. WM

 

[Lynx]

Looks like 10 posts is in the bag, 8, or 9 days, you're good to PM and use Member Classifieds. Nothing against helping out, acting within forum rules is best, IMO. I'm no expert but have picked up a few tips hanging around here, very glad to share, just as members have with me. WM

Oh I had no idea that posts also meant comments, see you in 8-9 days then! The compressor should arrive by that time too, and I'll have everything set-up so I can actually have something to show. Catch you then friend

 

[AlanMcD]

I posted a detailed explanation in another thread (over two back to back posts) about what "water filtration" really means, and why we should be doing it properly for our uses. It's a few minutes of reading, but should help you understand the full situation to make a better informed decision. This link will take you to the two posts directly: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/moisture-in-pcp-airguns.1321274/page-2#post-1839752

 

[JimD]

I like using color changing dessicant beads in my second filter. I use a Yong Heng and the filter it comes with gets the oil and some water. I change the absorber after each fill of my 45 minute fireman's tank. I change the beads when they are mostly dark. Takes at least 6 runs. I have one of the really big gold filters but I do not use it because it would take longer to fill and doesn't seem to be necessary. A coalesce tower can work if carefully sized to match the airflow of your compressor but just buying one and putting it in your system seems iffy to me and unnecessary. I vent every 5 minutes of run time and I think that is what gets rid of the most water. As long as my dessicated isn't getting saturated and my guns stay dry I don't plan to change anything.

 

[Lynx]

I posted a detailed explanation in another thread (over two back to back posts) about what "water filtration" really means, and why we should be doing it properly for our uses. It's a few minutes of reading, but should help you understand the full situation to make a better informed decision. This link will take you to the two posts directly: https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/moisture-in-pcp-airguns.1321274/page-2#post-1839752

Gave it a full read and it aligns very well with what I thought previously to be true; yet again, this forum pulls through with insane amounts of knowledge, wish every topic had one like this. My fear now is that the volume of the filter, the golden one from Tuxing I mean, would prove too much for the compressor I had in mind (and I'm afraid I'm limited to that compressor because of budget restrictions). Do you also think that's true? I should add that I don't think I'll use it more than twice/month.

 

[AlanMcD]

Gave it a full read and it aligns very well with what I thought previously to be true; yet again, this forum pulls through with insane amounts of knowledge, wish every topic had one like this. My fear now is that the volume of the filter, the golden one from Tuxing I mean, would prove too much for the compressor I had in mind (and I'm afraid I'm limited to that compressor because of budget restrictions). Do you also think that's true? I should add that I don't think I'll use it more than twice/month.

Well, I think the biggest issue is that these are not really meant to fill tanks, and while you are not filling over 3000 psi the 800 cc tanks are on the large side for an airgun. Adding the filter will make it worse in terms of the fill size, so I understand why you are asking.

I have no experience with the compressors myself, so maybe somebody with one might weigh in soon. You could always go with one of the smaller units, although I expect it would not work as well or last as long between refills / media changes.

Here is an example, of course you would need to get the media separately as this one comes with the cotton filters: https://www.amazon.com/Creation-Core-Pressure-Water-Oil-Compressor/dp/B07M8KTS9B/

 

[Lynx]

Well, I think the biggest issue is that these are not really meant to fill tanks, and while you are not filling over 3000 psi the 800 cc tanks are on the large side for an airgun. Adding the filter will make it worse in terms of the fill size, so I understand why you are asking.

I have no experience with the compressors myself, so maybe somebody with one might weigh in soon. You could always go with one of the smaller units, although I expect it would not work as well or last as long between refills / media changes.

Here is an example, of course you would need to get the media separately as this one comes with the cotton filters: https://www.amazon.com/Creation-Core-Pressure-Water-Oil-Compressor/dp/B07M8KTS9B/

And what about the actual filling procedure? See, my tank doesn't have a valve you can close or open, just a standard foster fitting, so.. what exactly is the procedure?

I know you start with the bleed valve open, start the fan then the compressor and let it run for around 30 seconds, then close the bleed valve; after this you'd let the compressor build to the pressure of the tank, but if I have no way to close the valve of my tank, what do I do then?
Just disregard this step?
And also, what do I do afterwards? Do I shut off the compressor and only then open the bleed valve? Or the other way around?
Oh, and there's actually more: do I disconnect the tank before or after opening the bleed valve?

It's a bit overwhelming for a beginner, that's why I am asking a lot, to be prepared once it arrives and avoid any critical failures.

 

[AlanMcD]

I'd like to see some more pictures of the rest of that valve, but it looks like that is a fill port with a built in check valve that feeds directly into the tank without having to go through the valve. If so, that makes it filling it much easier - there is no valve to open or close as part of filling it, so nothing to worry about there.

You'll just hook it up to the compressor, turn on the compressor, close the bleed screw, and the pressure will build in the line and then flow into the tank once the line hits the pressure in the tank. When full, open the bleed screw on the compressor to vent the line, shut down the compressor, then unhook the line from the tank. That's it.

You won't be able to disconnect a pressurized line from the tank until after the pressure is released anyways - at least not without massively forcing it.

 

[Lynx]

I'd like to see some more pictures of the rest of that valve, but it looks like that is a fill port with a built in check valve that feeds directly into the tank without having to go through the valve. If so, that makes it filling it much easier - there is no valve to open or close as part of filling it, so nothing to worry about there.

You'll just hook it up to the compressor, turn on the compressor, close the bleed screw, and the pressure will build in the line and then flow into the tank once the line hits the pressure in the tank. When full, open the bleed screw on the compressor to vent the line, shut down the compressor, then unhook the line from the tank. That's it.

You won't be able to disconnect a pressurized line from the tank until after the pressure is released anyways - at least not without massively forcing it.

So you open the bleeding valve before you shut off the compressor? Not after?
Then why do some compressors automatically shut off by themselves when reaching certain pressures? Seems counter intuitive to me.

Also, I've heard it's pretty bad to have the pressure in the compressor different than the one in the tank, but since you say it has a check valve (whatever that is haha, I'm not familiar with these) it seems to be a non issue.

So my only 2 remaining questions are: bleed valve before you shut it off? and if so, why and the second question would be if I have to tinker with any other bleed valve since apparently there's one more either below/behind the compressor, although I'm not so sure.

 

[AlanMcD]

I think there will bew just the one release valve - I think that picture was just made poorly, and it is trying to show the valve again like they do with the cooling fan. Poor illustrations / English instructions are pretty common on low cost Chinese stuff, if we get any at all.

The fill port on the tank has a check valve in it, meaning it is a one-way fill port that will open and flow air into the tank when the pressure is higher going in, and close when it is less. I think that your tank valve is likely a regulated one since it is for paintball/airsoft, and those almost always have a dedicated fill port like that because most regulators can't handle the higher pressure air flowing into them. Pretty normal, but just an educated guess since I can't see all of the valve.

It probably does not matter if you shut down the pump first or open the bleed screw first when you are done, but personally I would choose to vent the line when done and let the pump run a few more seconds with no load to help cool it and purge any more liquid water that might be in it from condensation

 

[rc4fun]

The two "Release" valves on the compressor should be open when you start and opened for 1/2 or 1/4 second every 5 minutes of run time to purge any water. The check valve on the tank is one-way so it prevents any back (from tank to compressor) pressure. When the desired pressure is reached in the tank both compressor Release valves should be opened and let the compressor run for another 20-30 seconds.

 

[Lynx]

The two "Release" valves on the compressor should be open when you start and opened for 1/2 or 1/4 second every 5 minutes of run time to purge any water. The check valve on the tank is one-way so it prevents any back (from tank to compressor) pressure. When the desired pressure is reached in the tank both compressor Release valves should be opened and let the compressor run for another 20-30 seconds.

So the release valve (apparently it's only one) should be opened 0.5 seconds and then closed every 5 minutes of runtime? Got it. Also, what is this "purge" that I keep hearing about? Is there any procedure I have to do besides closing/opening the bleed valve? Does water just shoot out of it? And again, if what you are saying is true (I do not doubt it) then why do some compressors have a set pressure option, after which the compressor shuts down on its own? That means it would stop with the bleed valve still closed...

 

[rc4fun]

The purge will spray a mist of water. When you compress air water is squeezed out the compressor has a small (very) reservoir to catch some of this water. The more you blow out at this point the less your drier needs to catch. The 5 minutes is a trade off between getting rid of water and unnecessary letting pressure drop.
The auto shut off is for lazy folks. It works but can be harder on the compressor.

 

[Sergey1972]

So the release valve (apparently it's only one) should be opened 0.5 seconds and then closed every 5 minutes of runtime? Got it. Also, what is this "purge" that I keep hearing about? Is there any procedure I have to do besides closing/opening the bleed valve? Does water just shoot out of it? And again, if what you are saying is true (I do not doubt it) then why do some compressors have a set pressure option, after which the compressor shuts down on its own? That means it would stop with the bleed valve still closed...

After filling opening bleed=purge valves first and continuing to run gets moisture out of the compression pistons. Otherwise moisture will stay in the compression cylinder and rust the cylinder walls. On my auto stop compressor I restart it and run for 1 minute with purge open before putting away.

 

[Lynx]

The purge will spray a mist of water. When you compress air water is squeezed out the compressor has a small (very) reservoir to catch some of this water. The more you blow out at this point the less your drier needs to catch. The 5 minutes is a trade off between getting rid of water and unnecessary letting pressure drop.
The auto shut off is for lazy folks. It works but can be harder on the compressor.

Alright, I got it now, everything seems to be fine and I think I am ready to operate, except 1 aspect: yesterday I was firstly introduced to PMV, which maintains a certain pressure on the filter (e.g. 2000 PSI); if my filter, the golden one, which is pretty big, doesn't have a PMV, is it incredibly bad on it? The tank itself will also have close to 900-1000 PSI, so does it really ruin the filling media if it has to pressurize every time?

 

[rc4fun]

A new configuration... The problem with just a PMV valve is that you would not have any way to disconnect the fill line from your tank
You would need to add a vent valve between the filter and gun and that alone would vent the filter also so you would then need to add another one-way valve. There is a cheaper way to do it without a PMV if you really want to go that route. Try what you have and if it takes an annoyingly long time to fill come back.
At that point you may want to consider other options .

 

[AlanMcD]

If you are filling tanks that already have close to 1000 psi in them, then there is no need for a PMV in your set up. The air in the filter will pressurize to that level before the check valve opens to start to fill your tank. So when you think about it, you’re most of the way there without a PMV anyways.

I think the only time a PMV is of any use to any of us is when we’re filling a tank from empty, and usually we only do that very rarely. Every after that is against the existing pressure in the tank, so the PMV doesn’t do much.

I think they only make sense for people that fill tanks from empty often.

 

[Lynx]

If you are filling tanks that already have close to 1000 psi in them, then there is no need for a PMV in your set up. The air in the filter will pressurize to that level before the check valve opens to start to fill your tank. So when you think about it, you’re most of the way there without a PMV anyways.

I think the only time a PMV is of any use to any of us is when we’re filling a tank from empty, and usually we only do that very rarely. Every after that is against the existing pressure in the tank, so the PMV doesn’t do much.

I think they only make sense for people that fill tanks from empty often.

I'll have to do that once for sure, since both of my tanks are empty right now, but the advice I've received so far is that the golden filter (the big one) would be a super bad idea to run with the compressor I've linked before (Tuxing TXET062) because it would double the fill time (not an issue for me) but that would also result in halving its life span and would result in the pressure being lost after I open the bleed valve since there won't be anything keeping it in the filter.

They do offer a smaller model, but it's barely bigger than the one the compressor already comes with and it only works with those rather useless cotton cylinders.
I am at a loss on what to do right now, as every path forward has downsides and I don't know which ones are more severe...

 

[rc4fun]

If you are filling small bottles from a low humidity place, inside with AC, then those small cotton things are plenty. I think you are over thinking this.
You don't say where you live so? Is there another connection from the bottle to the gun? What does it look like? you never did post a picture of the whole top. If you can turn the bottle you are filling upside down, then after 5-10 refills let it sit upside down (30 min) and open the valve to the gun and see if any water comes out, hold some tissue near the valve.