New Alpha Wolf owner, very pleased, first real gripe here...

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_CTAIRGUNNER_

_CTAIRGUNNER_

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May 30, 2022
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So I have had my Alpha Wolf .22HP for 2 weeks now, I have shot pellets and determined this rifle will shoot any pellet like a laser beam.

Bought the rifle to shoot slugs so I moved onto slugs, had to do some testing, did some testing, got an awesome tune for JSB Knockouts I wrote and its lights out at 50 yards... hopefully taking it to 100 this weekend.

With that said I wanted to know the barrel twist rate for my own knowledge (don't see the big deal in being so secretive) as well as for entering it into strelok pro. Whether Tony at daystate is correct or not, a lack of response would have been less than a slap in the face than this.

Love the rifle, love the build quality, I just find this to be a little disappointing after a customer drops $3500 USD on one of their products.

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CTairgunner1288 said:
So I have had my Alpha Wolf .22HP for 2 weeks now, I have shot pellets and determined this rifle will shoot any pellet like a laser beam.

Bought the rifle to shoot slugs so I moved onto slugs, had to do some testing, did some testing, got an awesome tune for JSB Knockouts I wrote and its lights out at 50 yards... hopefully taking it to 100 this weekend.

With that said I wanted to know the barrel twist rate for my own knowledge (don't see the big deal in being so secretive) as well as for entering it into strelok pro. Whether Tony at daystate is correct or not, a lack of response would have been less than a slap in the face than this.

Love the rifle, love the build quality, I just find this to be a little disappointing after a customer drops $3500 USD on one of their products.

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That's actually a reasonable response. It takes some work to get the predictions to work. If put in the variables exactly "correct" you get a bad appriximation of theoretical. If you put in the variables in close enough but you adjust to test data from shooting accurately you get much more accurate predictions. So it doesn't matter if you put in 1:17 or 1:19 or their magic secret number. Without adjustment to physical reality of velocity at 2 or more distances the predictions will be off.
 
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Sergey1972 said:
That's actually a reasonable response. It takes some work to get the predictions to work. If put in the variables exactly "correct" you get a bad appriximation of theoretical. If you put in the variables in close enough but you adjust to test data from shooting accurately you get much more accurate predictions. So it doesn't matter if you put in 1:17 or 1:19 or their magic secret number. Without adjustment to physical reality of velocity at 2 or more distances the predictions will be off.
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I get that, however...

The question wasn't what will work in strelok pro, the question I asked was what is the twist rate of the barrel in my rifle.

Like I said "Whether Tony at daystate is correct or not, a lack of response would have been less than a slap in the face than this".

Also with my Taipan , everything I entered in strelok pro, I tested the first dopes it gave to me and checked ranges with a quality range finder. It was spot on.
 
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CTairgunner1288 said:
I get that, however...

The question wasn't what will work in strelok pro, the question I asked was what is the twist rate of the barrel in my rifle.

Like I said "Whether Tony at daystate is correct or not, a lack of response would have been less than a slap in the face than this".
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Couldn’t agree more, I tried on multiple occasions to find the twist rate but no luck. I use twist rate to determine which slugs I want to try(calculate stability factor) so it’s an essential piece of information for the gun owner especially after dropping 4k on a gun which isn’t trivial even in higher end center fire world.

Trying to measure with cleaning rod is error prone especially with polygon barrels. Again, this is after dropped 4k after shipping and tax! This is one of many reasons I don’t own a DWolf and very unlikely ever will.
 
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qball said:
Couldn’t agree more, I tried on multiple occasions to find the twist rate but no luck. I use twist rate to determine which slugs I want to try(calculate stability factor) so it’s an essential piece of information for the gun owner especially after dropping 4k on a gun which isn’t trivial even in higher end center fire world.

Trying to measure with cleaning rod is error prone especially with polygon barrels. Again, this is after dropped 4k after shipping and tax! This is one of many reasons I don’t own a DWolf and very unlikely ever will.
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I just really think that like you said, when youre spending that kind of money they can get back to you with a much better response. Pretty terrible.
 
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Actually let me rephrase what I said a bit differently: as a pellet(drag stabilized) only rifle the twist rate isn’t as important but still good info as today’s heavier pellets need a little faster twist rate. BUT for slugs you have to have the twist rate information to get correct ballistic information and correct slugs for best accuracy. Twist rate is the most foundational information you need for shooting/selecting slugs! Twist rate is EVERYTHING when it comes to spin stabilized projectiles.

Outside of competition target pellet guns there is very little to no reason to spend much more than 1000 dollars on a pellet gun, my friend’s $299 aveneger will keep up with just about any pellet gun at closer distances including my Dreamline, crowns and impact.
 
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qball said:
Actually let me rephrase what I said a bit differently: as a pellet(drag stabilized) only rifle the twist rate isn’t as important but still good info as today’s heavier pellets need a little faster twist rate. BUT for slugs you have to have the twist rate information to get correct ballistic information and correct slugs for best accuracy. Twist rate is the most foundational information you need for shooting/selecting slugs! Twist rate is EVERYTHING when it comes to spin stabilized projectiles.

Outside of competition target pellet guns there is very little to no reason to spend much more than 1000 dollars on a pellet gun, my friend’s $299 aveneger will keep up with just about any pellet gun at closer distances including my Dreamline, crowns and impact.
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My Taipan is my hard hitting heavy pellet shooting beast. It does not shoot slugs well

In comes the Alpha Wolf

I specifically bought the alpha to try and shoot slugs, that is actually the exact reason I wanted the twist rate, however, I asked them the way I did (because I did want this info for strelok as well) so they wouldnt suspect anything "off" not that there could be any. I am glad I found a tune to work well with the knockouts however I have only tested them at 50 yards but I can get 30 shots in an MOA coin easily (30 is where I said ok thats enough) , so I think at 100 I will be good. Ill find out saturday though.
 
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CTairgunner1288 said:
My Taipan is my hard hitting heavy pellet shooting beast. It does not shoot slugs well

In comes the Alpha Wolf

I specifically bought the alpha to try and shoot slugs, that is actually the exact reason I wanted the twist rate, however, I asked them the way I did (because I did want this info for strelok as well) so they wouldnt suspect anything "off" not that there could be any. I am glad I found a tune to work well with the knockouts however I have only tested them at 50 yards but I can get 30 shots in an MOA coin easily (30 is where I said ok thats enough) , so I think at 100 I will be good. Ill find out saturday though.
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Many people have found good groups shooting different slugs with A/D wolf so at least that’s the good news. However without the twist rate information it’s impossible to know which slugs based on weight/length have adequate stability factor which has direct implication to accuracy and BC degradation. If a slug does not have adequate stabilization but still can group well enough which happens between stability factor of 1-1.5. Just like bullets from firearm we need minimum stability factor of 1.5, I prefer between 2-3. I’ve even validated BC degradation with slugs that has stability factor below 1.5 and the numbers are spot on so twist rate is a MUST have for slug shooter. Without precise twist rate info you are shooting slug blind!

Again, with stability factor between 1 and 1.5 the slugs can still group very well but BC usually is lower than published so ballistic calculation is off a little or need to be adjusted. Grouping well only means the gun is consistent/“accurate” but if the ballistic information is off then it’s hard to get that first shot ACCURACY! Good groups are only the starting point to a shooter’s accuracy.

Also if the stability factor is close to 1 then it’s very hard to tune and likely to get a lot of fliers because any puff of muzzle blast can throw it off course.
 
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qball said:
Many people have found good groups shooting different slugs with A/D wolf so at least that’s the good news. However without the twist rate information it’s impossible to know which slugs based on weight/length have adequate stability factor which has direct implication to accuracy and BC degradation. If a slug does not have adequate stabilization but still can group well enough which happens between stability factor of 1-1.5. Just like bullets from firearm we need minimum stability factor of 1.5, I prefer between 2-3. I’ve even validated BC degradation with slugs that has stability factor below 1.5 and the numbers are spot on so twist rate is a MUST have for slug shooter. Without precise twist rate info you are shooting slug blind!

Again, with stability factor between 1 and 1.5 the slugs can still group very well but BC usually is lower than published so ballistic calculation is off a little or need to be adjusted. Grouping well only means the gun is consistent/“accurate” but if the ballistic information is off then it’s hard to get that first shot ACCURACY! Good groups are only the starting point to a shooter’s accuracy.
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I am as green as they come to ballistics, got the fundamentals down and can shoot well, however this is where I am starting to learn, here, on AGN, from people like you and many others and its a great thing! It is definitely appreciated as well, Ive got a lot of learning to do but I am trying.
 
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When i
CTairgunner1288 said:
I am as green as they come to ballistics, got the fundamentals down and can shoot well, however this is where I am starting to learn, here, on AGN, from people like you and many others and its a great thing! It is definitely appreciated as well, Ive got a lot of learning to do but I am trying.
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If you really want to learn ballistic then I highly recommend checking out 22LR and long range forums like snipershide. Ballistic and twist rates are discussed NAUSEA! There are multiple in depth discussions on the difference between half an inch of twist or 1:8 vs 1:8.5!!! 🤣
 
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qball said:
When i



If you really want to learn ballistic then I highly recommend checking out 22LR and long range forums like snipershide. Ballistic and twist rates are discussed NAUSEA! There are multiple in depth discussions on the difference between half an inch of twist or 1:8 vs 1:8.5!!! 🤣
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So I went off the theoretical 1:18 , over on JBM ballistics, it comes up with 1.898 on the JSB .217 Knockouts, if I even vary it to 1:20 , it goes to 1.537 which is a huge difference, so yes, youre right, it is 100% important and needed.
 
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I use this calculator from Berger just because I can put altitude in feet which is easy as supposed to pressure in JBM calculator which I need to measure but more precise.
bergerbullets.com

Twist Rate Stability Calculator

Our newly updated Twist Rate Stability Calculator not only tells you what your SG is, but it also lets you know if you are reaching your optimized BC.
bergerbullets.com bergerbullets.com


If the stability factor is below 1.5 the Berger calculator will tell you the BC degradation so you can use in strelok. The altitude does make a big difference so be sure to input that information when running the calculation. I won’t even bother with stability factor below 1.3, that’s plain waste of slugs and time.

Once you get all the information correct in strelok or applied ballistic it’s dead nuts on! Also keep your speed around march 0.8. You are well on your way to ACCURACY! 👍
 
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Not sure why Tony didn't respond more informatively but there are 2 barrels that have been shipped on DW's... maybe he doesn't know on your particular one. The earliest 22s were 1 in 17.7... a standard LW like has been put in all the Daystates for a long time. Latest ones COULD have a 1 in 30 modeled after the larger calibers ART barrels. I've been testing one for a while as have a couple more people but I'm really not sure how complete the transition is or what shipments they started showing up in. They are VERY good for pellets but my slug testing so far is limited.
Bob
 
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Arzrover said:
Not sure why Tony didn't respond more informatively but there are 2 barrels that have been shipped on DW's... maybe he doesn't know on your particular one. The earliest 22s were 1 in 17.7... a standard LW like has been put in all the Daystates for a long time. Latest ones COULD have a 1 in 30 modeled after the larger calibers ART barrels. I've been testing one for a while as have a couple more people but I'm really not sure how complete the transition is or what shipments they started showing up in. They are VERY good for pellets but my slug testing so far is limited.
Bob
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@Arzrover

If its a 1 in 30 that shows to be not very promising, if its 17.7 that would be great but with the Alpha Wolf I doubt it got that because the Alpha Wolf as I understand is the mass of all revisions done to the DW along with a pretty stock.
 
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CTairgunner1288 said:
So I have had my Alpha Wolf .22HP for 2 weeks now, I have shot pellets and determined this rifle will shoot any pellet like a laser beam.

Bought the rifle to shoot slugs so I moved onto slugs, had to do some testing, did some testing, got an awesome tune for JSB Knockouts I wrote and its lights out at 50 yards... hopefully taking it to 100 this weekend.

With that said I wanted to know the barrel twist rate for my own knowledge (don't see the big deal in being so secretive) as well as for entering it into strelok pro. Whether Tony at daystate is correct or not, a lack of response would have been less than a slap in the face than this.

Love the rifle, love the build quality, I just find this to be a little disappointing after a customer drops $3500 USD on one of their products.

View attachment 269275
View attachment 269276
Click to expand...

I hope that helps..
 
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