New manufacturers PCP airgun pricing trend...

Seems like about 10+ years ago only a few major manufacturers ruled the PCP market, especially at the high-end. Since then it was nice to see some smaller unknown ones enter the market and make a name for themselves by quality or innovative design changes and proven performance in competition. They had smaller production numbers on the market but were able to gradually move up their prices comparable with the big boys' guns due to a growing devoted following base.

But in the last couple of years I see unknown and unproven "manufacturers" with a web-distributor presence only, with no actual manufacturer shop details disclosed, etc. putting products on the market that are near the same price as the high-end big boys products. What makes you want to buy a little known "company's" $1500-$2800 PCP that is priced only $200 below the big boys? Word of mouth reputation here on the airgun forums? Special personal insight?
 
Seems like about 10+ years ago only a few major manufacturers ruled the PCP market, especially at the high-end. Since then it was nice to see some smaller unknown ones enter the market and make a name for themselves by quality or innovative design changes and proven performance in competition. They had smaller production numbers on the market but were able to gradually move up their prices comparable with the big boys' guns due to a growing devoted following base.

But in the last couple of years I see unknown and unproven "manufacturers" with a web-distributor presence only, with no actual manufacturer shop details disclosed, etc. putting products on the market that are near the same price as the high-end big boys products. What makes you want to buy a little known "company's" $1500-$2800 PCP that is priced only $200 below the big boys? Word of mouth reputation here on the airgun forums? Special personal insight?

.45 cal semiautomatic slug guns sell quite well.
 
Isn’t it obvious that the market is growing and that PCPs are overpriced? It’s the only rational reason why market participants would be behaving this way!

Eventually there will be consolidation, perhaps as soon as we hit a recession…

-Marty
So... like NOW! (heavy sigh)

And prices will not drop fast enough for me to be able to afford another airgun given that my utilities, groceries, etc, etc have ACTUALLY gone up by over 50%.

No lie.
 
Until those $300 Avengers start winning competitive events I don't see the prices lowering on high end precision built Airguns.
Those $300 Avengers are what is "growing the sport".

They aren't meant to be competition guns, but having owned a couple or 3 Freedoms (the Avenger is based on these and the Liberty and probably/LIKELY built at the same place), they would have been capable (even if I was not) of winning some competitions.

My problem with the "what used to be $300" and now are $500 guns is that they have other issues that most people simply don't want to have to deal with. Hell, I don't want to have to deal with them with a $1500-$3000 gun either, but there are plenty of posts here and on GTA that proves the cost of an airgun is no real guarantee you won't have problems... right out of the box.

I don't ask much of an airgun. I simply want it to work like a hammer. Accurate every time if I do my part and simple enough to last without the need to "tinker".

BTW, I don't consider "tuning" to be tinkering IF the gun allows you to do it without disassembling it.
 
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Those $300 Avengers are what is "growing the sport".

They aren't meant to be competition guns, but having owned a couple or 3 Freedoms (the Avenger is based on these and the Liberty and probably/LIKELY built at the same place), they would have been capable (even if I was not) of winning some competitions.

My problem with the "what used to be $300" and now are $500 guns is that they have other issues that most people simply don't want to have to deal with. Hell, I don't want to have to deal with them with a $1500-$3000 gun either, but there are plenty of posts here and on GTA that proves the cost of an airgun is no real guarantee you won't have problems... right out of the box.

I don't ask much of an airgun. I simply want it to work like a hammer. Accurate every time if I do my part and simple enough to last without the need to "tinker".

BTW, I don't consider "tuning" to be tinkering IF the gun allows you to do it without disassembling it.
Hmm. Well if you want affordable airguns, there are many. If you want qualify, there are few. The market has demanded both, and manufactures are happy to oblige. I think the industry's growth will continue despite* a recession, and yes prices will increase as the prices to make those products increase.
 
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Hmm. Well if you want affordable airguns, there are many. If you want qualify, there are few. The market has demanded both, and manufactures are happy to oblige. I think the industry's growth will continue dispute a recession, and yes prices will increase as the prices to make those products increase.
I think we've been through this before.

To "grow the sport", affordable, reliable and consistently accurate airguns have to be available. I have made mistakes in buying low end PCPs, but that is not to say that low end (price) airguns are not capable of being everything I stated. IMHO, it is just that they are going more for $$$$ than some people think they can afford. And many people can, just not the majority.

To "grow the sport" you have to make GOOD tools available at an affordable price. That does not mean cheap guns that continually need to be "fixed" or "tweaked" or "tinkered" with.

Yes, there are a LOT of tweaking tinkerers on this forum and the others, but to grow the sport, you need inexpensive guns that shoot accurately without a lot of fuss. Otherwise, most people will be put off and simply go in another direction, like PBs, if they can.

The recession is just getting started my friend. Another 2 years of the present regime and I think you will change your tune dramatically.

But, that is getting in to politics, so I will stop.
 
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I think we've been through this before.

To "grow the sport", affordable, reliable and consistently accurate airguns have to be available. I have made mistakes in buying low end PCPs, but that is not to say that low end (price) airguns are not capable of being everything I stated. IMHO, it is just that they are going more for that $$$$ that some people think they can afford. And many people can, just not the majority.

To "grow the sport" you have to make GOOD tools available at an affordable price. That does not mean cheap guns that continually need to be "fixed" or "tweaked" or "tinkered" with.

Yes, there are a LOT of tweaking tinkerers on this forum and the others, but to grow the sport, you need inexpensive guns that shoot accurately without a lot of fuss. Otherwise, most people will be put off and simply go in another direction, like PBs, if they can.

The recession is just getting started my friend. Another 2 years of the present regime and I think you will change your tune dramatically.

But, that is getting in to politics, so I will stop.
I full heartedly believe more affordable options should and will pop up. And yes, sadly often the price makes buying a rifle impossible. For me, for example, I buy pretty infrequently because I simply cannot justify the expense because I am trying to put my wife and kids first and give them the best fruits. That said, my only sentiments I am trying to communicate is that you can't get a rifle like a Benjamin Bulldog to out quality a Bushbuck 45, for example, or a .25 Gauntlet to out qualify an Evol. Value is different for every consumer, and some consumers value affordable airguns over quality. I think both are good, depending on who you are and what your requirements for a platform are, but you can't make a Mustang a Lamborghini by driving on the same race track (and that is no diss to the Mustang either). Different strokes for different folks.

Kind regards,
-Atlas
 
I full heartedly believe more affordable options should and will pop up. And yes, sadly often the price makes buying a rifle impossible. For me, for example, I buy pretty infrequently because I simply cannot justify the expense because I am trying to put my wife and kids first and give them the best fruits. That said, my only sentiments I am trying to communicate is that you can't get a rifle like a Benjamin Bulldog to out quality a Bushbuck 45, for example, or a .25 Gauntlet to out qualify an Evol. Value is different for every consumer, and some consumers value affordable airguns over quality. I think both are good, depending on who you are and what your requirements for a platform are, but you can't make a Mustang a Lamborghini by driving on the same race track (and that is no diss to the Mustang either). Different strokes for different folks.

Kind regards,
-Atlas
The emphasized line says it all. It also implies that you buy MUCH more than the average Joe (like me) can afford, so you are one of the elite who has more money than the majority for frivolous things like multiple airguns simply because.

I own several airguns because I made bad choices concerning longevity. So I now have 1 working PCP, the Fortitude Gen2 in my signature, 1 .22 and 2 .177 Freedoms that I hope to one day either fix or convert to bottle or tube guns and get rid of the onboard pump completely and the DAR which I thought had fixed the leaking problems by the time I bought mine. I am not much when it comes to working on airguns, but I do plan on trying to find the leak(s) and fix them as that gun was starting to be my favorite for 40 yard plus pesting. It was nice to simply place the crosshairs on the target instead of thinking about holdover. Also, I was getting accustomed to using the Athlon BTR 8-34 FFP scope! MUCH better glass and clarity than the Aim Sports Alpha 6 and it also was reliable enough that I had considered starting to click for range. (smile)

Anyway, I digress.

You and I will always disagree because you have spare money and don't seem to understand those of us who don't. Simple as that.

Nothing personal, just a fact.

Good luck to you and yours!

BS
 
LOL, I hope your not referring to the number 1 in current market share because your statements certainly don’t hold true for them.
I'm not referring to any one brand in particular. My reference was regarding the original post: "But in the last couple of years I see unknown and unproven "manufacturers" with a web-distributor presence only..."
 
Generally speaking it is a lot easier for a manufacturer to lower prices after a launch than to raise them. In fact, most manufacturers do not actually lower the price, they simply offer a rebate, or a bigger discount to the wholesaler or distributor while maintaining the MSRP.. Because of this, manufacturers tend to price as high as they can and then see what sticks (this does not apply only to airguns). They choose the segment fo the market that they wish to compete in and price accordingly. If the product offering is not able to sustain the higher pricing the product will be on permanent/consistent markdown.

The rise of the “Web Presence Only” (WPO) brands coupled with on-demand manufacturing in (primarily) China has made this whole approach very prevalent, and not only in airguns. Needless to say, this can create major problems for the customer if there is any kind of supply disruption and doesn’t do much for the availability of spare parts and warranty work.

At the same time, this approach has worked very well for a number of brands since it enables a significant product presence without a major initial investment in manufacturing. If the company then proceeds to invest heavily in, for example, a US presence, coupled with robust after sales service, warranty, as well as parts and product inventory then you get the beginnings of a really good brand. This is the approach of people like Athlon and Vortex, to name a few.

I personally will not take a chance on any WPO brand when they first start operating, especially if they are priced like to established players. Too many of them spend all their money on marketing, including reviews touting how wonderful this brand new, untested brand is, rather than investing in the required presence and support functions. No need to name names since you all know various names that pop out of nowhere but get shouted to the roof tops by reviewers… If, over time, they prove their worth then they may have a chance at my dollars.

On the other hand, I WILL take a chance on a new brand that’s priced attractively relative to the features they offer. Again, this was the approach of people like Athlon and Vortex before they made it into the higher tiers. Similarly, some of the Chinese manufacturers are trying to establish their own brands rather than just being contract manufacturers for everyone else. Generally they are priced quite attractively for the features they offer. I have had good luck with people like West Hunter on Amazon, for example. Are they as good as Athlon, Vortex, Hawke, Leupold, etc? No, but their prices are very low and they offer decent service (or at least, they respond to any questions I have asked since I have not really had any thing break).

I feel this way about most new brands, not just airgun or shooting related. Paying (almost) full top price for an unknown brand made in a far away land just to save a couple hundred buck on a $2,000+ item makes no sense to me. I wouldn’t do it with a Camera or lens, so why would I do it with an airgun?

As always, this is my opinion and YMMV.

Chris
 
The emphasized line says it all. It also implies that you buy MUCH more than the average Joe (like me) can afford, so you are one of the elite who has more money than the majority for frivolous things like multiple airguns simply because.

I own several airguns because I made bad choices concerning longevity. So I now have 1 working PCP, the Fortitude Gen2 in my signature, 1 .22 and 2 .177 Freedoms that I hope to one day either fix or convert to bottle or tube guns and get rid of the onboard pump completely and the DAR which I thought had fixed the leaking problems by the time I bought mine. I am not much when it comes to working on airguns, but I do plan on trying to find the leak(s) and fix them as that gun was starting to be my favorite for 40 yard plus pesting. It was nice to simply place the crosshairs on the target instead of thinking about holdover. Also, I was getting accustomed to using the Athlon BTR 8-34 FFP scope! MUCH better glass and clarity than the Aim Sports Alpha 6 and it also was reliable enough that I had considered starting to click for range. (smile)

Anyway, I digress.

You and I will always disagree because you have spare money and don't seem to understand those of us who don't. Simple as that.

Nothing personal, just a fact.

Good luck to you and yours!

BS
I am "one of the elite" eh? I like that title. Maybe I'll make a shirt for the podcast that says that. I better go tell my wife that she best recognize my new found status! Move aside airgun fellow-travelers, you have an Elite amongst yourselves now.
 
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I am "one of the elite" eh? I like that title. Maybe I'll make a shirt for the podcast that says that. I better go tell my wife that she best recognize my new found status! Move aside airgun fellow-travelers, you have an Elite amongst yourselves now.
I don't know Tristan, that car you drive just screams big pimpin. Lol 🤣
 
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I don't know Tristan, that car you drive just screams big pimpin. Lol 🤣
Shhhhh don't kill my vibs

New Project.jpg
 
Business is Business..so why I should not start my guns at 2k if everyone is purchasing 2k guns + another 1k + in doo Das.. I can't blame the pcp makers they are here to do business.. they will low their prices when people stop running after every bone they trow..high quality guns have always been expensive..12 years or more ago a cricket was $1500 I imagine that by that time it was in the top 5 most expensive guns..the good old FX .. n the rest in the $500 n up categories .. from $800 down guns have always been pcp that need some final tweaks to be really good . Knowing to work in your guns is a must.. because it will allow you to almost go head to head with the big boys. Up to 100y . a good hatsan bt 65 in .25 or .30 with a good tune..will go side by side..will a FX or a Evol at 100y any day any time.. but is up to you to learn how to make the most of what you purchase.. you could do that or spend the $$ in a higher end gun. + what ever takes to have it properly tuned... or keep complaining about how expensive pcp are... I don't have the time n knowledge to work on my guns, so I had to take the expensive route.. in order to better enjoy the sport.. but they are many who have learned to work on pcp n enjoy the sport with a lot less money..... the best advice don't buy crapy guns - if you have 3 $350 guns that will always need this or that .. you save that money you will find a awesome deal if you have the patience.. eastern European guns go here from $700 to $1200 yes you end up with one gun .. but is one flawless shooting regulated gun..
 
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Business is Business..so why I should not start my guns at 2k if everyone is purchasing 2k guns + another 1k + in doo Das.. I can't blame the pcp makers they are here to do business.. they will low their prices when people stop running after every bone they trow..high quality guns have always been expensive..12 years or more ago a cricket was $1500 I imagine that by that time it was in the top 5 most expensive guns..the good old FX .. n the rest in the $500 n up categories .. from $800 down guns have always been pcp that need some final tweaks to be really good . Knowing to work in your guns is a must.. because it will allow you to almost go head to head with the big boys. Up to 100y . a good hatsan bt 65 in .25 or .30 with a good tune..will go side by side..will a FX or a Evol at 100y any day any time.. but is up to you to learn how to make the most of what you purchase.. you could do that or spend the $$ in a higher end gun. + what ever takes to have it properly tuned... or keep complaining about how expensive pcp are... I don't have the time n knowledge to work on my guns, so I had to take the expensive route.. in order to better enjoy the sport.. but they are many who have learned to work on pcp n enjoy the sport with a lot less money..... the best advice don't buy crapy guns - if you have 3 $350 guns that will always need this or that .. you save that money you will find a awesome deal if you have the patience.. eastern European guns go here from $700 to $1200 yes you end up with one gun .. but is one flawless shooting regulated gun..
I know many that have and even continue to compete with entry level airguns and rank very well (even winning events). The airgun doesn't shoot itself...at the end of the day it is about the skill of the individual shooter and their knowledge of their rifle. You can do very well with an entry level airgun provided you learn it well and can shoot well.



-Elite
 
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