New member introduction

[javelinaStank]

Hello Airgunners,

New member here. I live in the hills of Los Angeles, but temporarily staying in Arizona as well as a frequent visitor. I own powder burner guns but I'm looking to get into air guns for hunting and general target practice. Squirrels, cottontails, jacks, and other varmints.

California doesn't care much for guns and makes everything as expensive and arduous as possible for law abiding citizens. So air guns look like a better bet for frequency of use, practicality, and expense. Aiming to get myself a .30 caliber rifle and a .22 for the kids, PCPs only. We'll primarily shoot on BLM and National Forest land but if desperate we're reasonably close to ranges. Looking to get setup with my rifles in the next 1-2 months.

I've already learned quite a bit reading the threads here. Looking forward to conversing with you all and getting to know the community. If anyone has suggestions on where to go shoot in the LA area I'd appreciate it as well.

 

[WorriedMan]

Welcome to the forum, PCPs are awesome. Thank your lucky stars you don't live in New Jersey, they consider airguns same as firearms. WM

 

[javelinaStank]

Welcome to the forum, PCPs are awesome. Thank your lucky stars you don't live in New Jersey, they consider airguns same as firearms. WM

That's wild! I guess it can always be worse. Though when I go to AZ and other nearby states I realize it can always be better too. PCPs definitely have some startup costs, but I'd rather just get it over with than be dissatisfied with my purchase.

 

[WorriedMan]

That's wild! I guess it can always be worse. Though when I go to AZ and other nearby states I realize it can always be better too. PCPs definitely have some startup costs, but I'd rather just get it over with than be dissatisfied with my purchase.

Agreed, PCP hobby is not for the feint of wallet. Lots of knowledgeable, helpful members here, tend to be all over the place with airgun, compressor recommendations but eventually you'll figure it out. Sharing budget limits, anticipated usage and "tinkering" comfort level is always helpful. Best of Luck, WM

 

[rangur1]

30 cal is pretty powerful for the varmints you mentioned. Obviously not to powerful to you. 25 cal offers quite a wide selection. 30 less so, but very doable. Ammo cost is a considerable drop per round in 25 vs 30 cal. A decent compressor like a CX4 and a 75 or 95 cuft carbon fiber bottle and your quite self sufficient. But not cheap initially.

 

[Revoman]

Welcome to the best forum, air gun related or not. TONS of great information here with mostly friendly folks.
You'll learn a lot, just when asking questions, provide as much as possible instead of "What's the best....?"

mike

 

[javelinaStank]

30 cal is pretty powerful for the varmints you mentioned. Obviously not to powerful to you. 25 cal offers quite a wide selection. 30 less so, but very doable. Ammo cost is a considerable drop per round in 25 vs 30 cal. A decent compressor like a CX4 and a 75 or 95 cuft carbon fiber bottle and your quite self sufficient. But not cheap initially.

My primary hobby is cycling (road and dirty bikes), so I’m very well versed in spending ridiculous seeming money on hobbies. Though I’m not independently wealthy unfortunately so the air rifle budget comes from the cycling budget. I’ll make do and be thankful I can do any of these frivolous activities.

My primary reason for getting a .30 over something smaller is practical. I want to do longer range shooting as well and I don’t want to buy and maintain a bunch of different rifles, and to have different calibers since I already know I “need” 2 guns. I figure if I shoot the little buggers at farther ranges than I would with a .25 / .22 that should compensate. Definitely not looking to make instant rabbit soup with my rifle! Since hunting is a hobby I’m not really concerned about upping my efficiency in every area, taking longer range shots and missing more frequently is fine. I’ll let the kids have the closer range shots. As long as I have successful days overall to keep up my motivation.

Are there decent ballistic tables for air rifles like there are powder? Seems like the huge variety of rounds and power would make it difficult, but general guidelines would be helpful. What kind of range would you extend a .30 shot to over a .25 for pellets to avoid splattering varmints?

Thank you for the recommendations on equipment. I’d rather go with decent stuff and look for deals or wait than buy crapola just to get started and end up replacing it.

 

[AGFAN]

Welcome

 

[dgeesaman]

I'm not a hunter specifically but I have done enough long range shooting to share that a high power .22 can hang with a similar .30 out to 100y. The .30 ends up being more loopy and sensitive to your distance measurement but tends to hit harder at distance. In terms of ballistic coefficient, the right .22 can keep up with most .30s. Since airgun hunting potency relies on both accuracy and power, and real-world accuracy is heavily influenced by wind drift, I guess my point is I'm not giving the .30 a big advantage. And .25 is right in the sweet spot between them.

If there is a SCUBA shop nearby who can do 4000+psi fills, you might consider getting started with a big 4500psi tank. But keep in mind those high power PCPs will drain a big tank down to 250bar (which is a common max fill pressure for bottle PCP guns) in several refills, which might only add up to a hundred or two hundred shots. I think you'll need the big tank regardless since you're traveling to shoot. **
** there are portable compressors that run on generator or even your truck electric but I'm not too familiar with them. And I'm still a fan of the big fill tank.
I'd love to say there is a price point where compressors become dead reliable, but unfortunately that price point is around $4k. Spending $1k or $2k on a compressor probably helps but that does not eliminate reliability issues. There is a growing segment of airgunners who buy cheap (<$400) compressors, add water cooling, don't lean too hard on them, rebuild as required, and make them work for a tiny cost compared to the other options. Me, I picked up a $2k compressor in a local sale for $900 or so and knock on wood it's handled my weekly fills of my big tank for two years now.

There are some brands of PCP that have ample adjustments for regulator pressure, hammer spring preload, and port size. They can allow relatively large changes in tune relatively easily, but in my experience these are more complicated designs and a bit less reliable. (not unlike comparing Campy 12 speed to Shimano 10 speed) I'm a fan of the simpler, more durable high performers like the RAWs and Daystate mechanical guns. But there are many options and they can all work.

Make sure you buy scopes that focus as close as 15y minimum, preferably 10y minimum. I like FFP reticles for the kind of shooting you describe since I can rely on holdover charts and not be stuck taking my shot at one magnification.

Slugs are a big thing these days and ballistically awesome but I still think only a minority of PCP shooters have been successful with them. In a word, not for beginners. If I experiment with slug shooting again, I will buy a dedicated slug gun and get right to working out the perfect slug selection and tune. Pellets are way more forgiving and still quite accurate and powerful.

 

[rangur1]

My primary hobby is cycling (road and dirty bikes), so I’m very well versed in spending ridiculous seeming money on hobbies. Though I’m not independently wealthy unfortunately so the air rifle budget comes from the cycling budget. I’ll make do and be thankful I can do any of these frivolous activities.

My primary reason for getting a .30 over something smaller is practical. I want to do longer range shooting as well and I don’t want to buy and maintain a bunch of different rifles, and to have different calibers since I already know I “need” 2 guns. I figure if I shoot the little buggers at farther ranges than I would with a .25 / .22 that should compensate. Definitely not looking to make instant rabbit soup with my rifle! Since hunting is a hobby I’m not really concerned about upping my efficiency in every area, taking longer range shots and missing more frequently is fine. I’ll let the kids have the closer range shots. As long as I have successful days overall to keep up my motivation.

Are there decent ballistic tables for air rifles like there are powder? Seems like the huge variety of rounds and power would make it difficult, but general guidelines would be helpful. What kind of range would you extend a .30 shot to over a .25 for pellets to avoid splattering varmints?

Thank you for the recommendations on equipment. I’d rather go with decent stuff and look for deals or wait than buy crapola just to get started and end up replacing it.

If you click n the “projectiles “ section. All that BC stuff should be there, as well as 25 vs 30 cal performance. All this is subsonic, pellets are like shuttlecocks, slugs more towards what you’re familiar with. Either way, there should be performance information available, those questions will be answered there in detail.

 

[WoodWelder]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Jim B]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[c.wallace_06]

Welcome.. I’m over here in southern AZ as well

 

[Gerry52]

Welcome aboard (or into) the "rabbit hole". It's deep & wide but generous, eager to help members here to smooth out the learning curve. Good luck & good shooting.

 

[Simplemann]

Welcome

 

[John "spysir" Blount]

Welcome, agree with whomever said the .22 (so buy the kids something Nice too!) is likely what you really want for the game mentioned and Turkey head shots.

Also for a good bit of ammo cost savings but if you still want reach and FPE do check out what a good .25 can do with the newer heavy ammo, still much cheaper than .30.


John

 

[javelinaStank]

I'm not a hunter specifically but I have done enough long range shooting to share that a high power .22 can hang with a similar .30 out to 100y. The .30 ends up being more loopy and sensitive to your distance measurement but tends to hit harder at distance. In terms of ballistic coefficient, the right .22 can keep up with most .30s. Since airgun hunting potency relies on both accuracy and power, and real-world accuracy is heavily influenced by wind drift, I guess my point is I'm not giving the .30 a big advantage. And .25 is right in the sweet spot between them.

If there is a SCUBA shop nearby who can do 4000+psi fills, you might consider getting started with a big 4500psi tank. But keep in mind those high power PCPs will drain a big tank down to 250bar (which is a common max fill pressure for bottle PCP guns) in several refills, which might only add up to a hundred or two hundred shots. I think you'll need the big tank regardless since you're traveling to shoot. **
** there are portable compressors that run on generator or even your truck electric but I'm not too familiar with them. And I'm still a fan of the big fill tank.
I'd love to say there is a price point where compressors become dead reliable, but unfortunately that price point is around $4k. Spending $1k or $2k on a compressor probably helps but that does not eliminate reliability issues. There is a growing segment of airgunners who buy cheap (<$400) compressors, add water cooling, don't lean too hard on them, rebuild as required, and make them work for a tiny cost compared to the other options. Me, I picked up a $2k compressor in a local sale for $900 or so and knock on wood it's handled my weekly fills of my big tank for two years now.

There are some brands of PCP that have ample adjustments for regulator pressure, hammer spring preload, and port size. They can allow relatively large changes in tune relatively easily, but in my experience these are more complicated designs and a bit less reliable. (not unlike comparing Campy 12 speed to Shimano 10 speed) I'm a fan of the simpler, more durable high performers like the RAWs and Daystate mechanical guns. But there are many options and they can all work.

Make sure you buy scopes that focus as close as 15y minimum, preferably 10y minimum. I like FFP reticles for the kind of shooting you describe since I can rely on holdover charts and not be stuck taking my shot at one magnification.

Slugs are a big thing these days and ballistically awesome but I still think only a minority of PCP shooters have been successful with them. In a word, not for beginners. If I experiment with slug shooting again, I will buy a dedicated slug gun and get right to working out the perfect slug selection and tune. Pellets are way more forgiving and still quite accurate and powerful.

I appreciate the detailed info. I don't think an ultra reliable compressor is in the cards for me given that price point! I'll strive for 'good enough' at this point. *Adding* water cooling ex post facto is something I'm sure I could do if I had good instructions, but sounds like it'd just be a lot easier to pay the extra to get it right off the bat. Looking for a slightly used or NOS deal is usually how buy any hobby items, I'll probably go that way here too except that a warranty and support might be worth going new for. I don't have a ton of room to store these new accoutrements either, so I have to be wise about what I get. A big ass scuba tank's probably not in the cards either. A compressor I can find room if it's compact enough.

I like the cycling comparison. I'm a Shimano guy myself, because I try to make things easier on myself not harder! Though Campy does have some nice stuff, it's not nicer enough to be worth the extra money and hassle... I don't need a ton of fiddly stuff for now, I just want something reliable, pretty good out the box, light enough weight, and the right price.

I made a spreadsheet of different ammo prices to get a comparison, and I'm leaning toward .25 for cost and availability. My reference rounds are powder burners 9mm and 22lr. Airgun .25 and .22 are both more expensive than 22lr. Some of these .30 pellet rounds, heavy and hollowpoint, are approaching the price of 9mm. The .25 are between .22lr for the cheapest and at the most expensive equal to a cheap .30 pellet.

Also, the number of shots available relative to a .30 is very appealing. I really do want a .30, but .25 seems significantly more practical.

Welcome.. I’m over here in southern AZ as well

Nice! I'm up in northern AZ at the moment, but I love the Valley of the Sun this time of year (and any time it's not 115*). I'd love to live in Scottsdale or somewhere in the east Valley.... October through April!

Welcome, agree with whomever said the .22 (so buy the kids something Nice too!) is likely what you really want for the game mentioned and Turkey head shots.

Also for a good bit of ammo cost savings but if you still want reach and FPE do check out what a good .25 can do with the newer heavy ammo, still much cheaper than .30.


John

I'm thinking about the Umarex Notos .22 for the kids. It looks like a good value product but very importantly it only weighs 4 pounds. Air rifles seem rather piggish in general, though that's to be expected with the need to contain high pressure air constantly rather than temporarily resist a high chamber pressure. My youngest is 4, so I want something any of them can physically handle.