Beeman New to me R8 is a keeper.

[Mycapt65]

Got this R8 (on the right) a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure I'd keep it or not because I didn't realize how heavy they are. Then I liked it less after I shot it. The barrel shot to the right a fair bit, accuracy wasn't great, it was dieseling and the extreme spead was something like 60. Obviously it needed work.

Apart in the shop it got worse. The threaded receiver was already too loose and rotates past alignment. Which I thought odd because this gun's never been apart. Every other threaded receiver rifle I've worked on were very tight the first time apart.

Then I found the piston seal lip was all chewed up. This explained the dieseling and huge extreme spread. There was a corresponding rough piece of braze sticking up in the end corner of the compression tube that was chewing up the seal lip. This is really bad because it'll perpetually trash every replacement seal. Effectively making the gun trash.

Then I went to the barrel. It has the roughest cut leade I've ever seen, a loose bore and no choke. I recently had a R7 sent to me with a similar barrel and the accuracy was terribly inconsistent. The only practical option was to replace it. Problem here is R8 barrels don't grow on trees.

On top of all this I messed up the only good part on the gun when I knocked it over and lightly dented the stock. Between all these things wrong and the denting the stock I almost wanted to cry. After all I couldn't sell it knowing all these things wrong with it. My only choice was to try to fix it.

I wont get into details but after a good bit of head scratching I finally figured out how to fix the comp tube. I replaced the piston seal with a Vortek seal. Locktited the receiver and did all the other regular tune stuff. I rolled the dice on the barrel as is and would worry about fixing it if it wasn't accurate. Then the weather went to ship and wasn't able to test it for over a week. Until today.

I'm very happy to say the gun is accurate and a joy to shoot. The energy calculation is a little off because the actual pellet was 7.33gr. It's actually 8.67 fpe. I'm quite proud of the chronograph numbers. A single digit extreme spread over 45 shots is pretty darn good. The accuracy is much better than I'd ever expect from a loose chokeless barrel with a crappie leade. Certainly good enough for me. Especially considering this is only initial testing in less than ideal conditions. These are five shot groups (circle OD is 0.562") at 25 yards.

After today's succesful testing I gifted it a Beeman Honey Dipper and a new breech seal

 

[mj102]

Nice write up.Glad you got rifle sorted out. I had a really nice one but I regrettably sold it. Enjoy your new rifle!

 

[SpiralGroove]

Ron, glad you got it sorted out.
Given the number of guns you’ve worked on, you should be able to fix almost anything.

Contrary to many recent posts, other than Goudy stocks (replaceable internals have always been suspect), newer Weihrauch guns are made better than their predecessors. I’m not a fan of laser embossing either, but …….

 

[Silver Ace]

I have and have had several classic HW’s and have never seen a barrel leade like that. Nor do any of my end plugs not tighten securely when the scope rails become aligned. I am glad this is shooting well and is sorted out. But I wouldn’t say this is a good comparison to bolster the claim that the newer HW’s are better quality than the old. I have no doubt the newer ones are better, but I wouldn’t say this is representative of the older guns. Unless I have just been extremely lucky with mine.

Edit: this is the second instance of poor brazing in the comp tube I have heard recently. So that is a valid point assuming the new ones don’t have that issue.

 

[Mycapt65]

I have and have had several classic HW’s and have never seen a barrel leade like that. Nor do any of my end plugs not tighten securely when the scope rails become aligned. I am glad this is shooting well and is sorted out. But I wouldn’t say this is a good comparison to bolster the claim that the newer HW’s are better quality than the old. I have no doubt the newer ones are better, but I wouldn’t say this is representative of the older guns. Unless I have just been extremely lucky with mine.

Edit: this is the second instance of poor brazing in the comp tube I have heard recently. So that is a valid point assuming the new ones don’t have that issue.

Two years ago someone sent me a brand new Hw50 with the same comp tube defect.

Also recently Weihrauchs gone to welded tubing and weld sometimes the weld doesn't machine out.

There's just as many problems with the new ones.

 

[MDriskill]

Ron, that's great! Glad your considerable expertise was able to whip the thing into shape. Now I feel less bad about waxing eloquent over the old HW 50/55/R8 "family" in your earshot, LOL.

You may be surprised to hear a collector-ish sort like me say this, but I agree the actions are better made on newer HW's. I've seen some weird things both inside and outside on the old ones but I still love 'em...maybe I just identify with their age and imperfection, lol.

 

[Mycapt65]

but I agree the actions are better made on newer HW's

That depends on your definition of newer. Mike you got some old I would agree up until about covid. I only got into Weihrauchs in 2015. I now have 14 Weihrauchs in three different calibers from 1983 to 2021. I've owned two others in that date range. Sold one because I didn't like the trajectory and parted out another because it failed terminally(2000my). I've probably worked on another two dozen for other people I consider friends that fell in the same date ranges.

It's either 6 of the last 7 or 5 of the last 6 brand new Weihrauchs sent to me since 2021 have had serious defects due to heinously poor assembly and or terrible production QC. Two of the examples I listed in my post above were terminal and returned to the vendors for refund or exchange. The rest I fixed the best I could and made into fair functioning rifles.

Some people are enamored by the myth of old is better. I don't necessarily agree. That again depends on the definition of old. In my experience these guns always had intermittent problems over the years. They were slowly improving until the last few years where I've seen an undeniable string of back to back bad ones. Even if its only 5 of the last 6, those are terrible odds. I'm done buying airguns anyway but I can tell you I'm certainly not buying any more new Weihrauchs for myself until I see an uptick in their QC. If I were lookin for a Weihrauch I'd be looking for a stamped receiver made between 2012 and 2018. IMO those were the best made in the last 40 or so years. Prior to that I have no clue.. I'll leave that determination to more experienced guys like you.

 

[Silver Ace]

Two years ago someone sent me a brand new Hw50 with the same comp tube defect.View attachment 541214View attachment 541215 Also recently Weihrauchs gone to welded tubing and weld sometimes the weld doesn't machine out.
View attachment 541219
There's just as many problems with the new ones.

Sheesh,,,that’s not good. Maybe the correct answer on the old vs new debate is “the newer ones are potentially better, but you still may get a clunker”.

Glad you got your R8 running, looks like it is shooting pretty well!

 

[MDriskill]

Thanks Ron, a very interesting note. By "better quality," I was thinking more in terms of exterior than interior - you being far, far ahead of me in looking at the latter.

I've seen HW's made in the 70's/80's that have some weirdness in fit-and-finish. Most are fine but you also see crooked barrels, obvious tooling marks, scope groove spacing not quite to spec, stocks with putty patches, etc. Toxylon's .22 35E is an example. Maybe a lot of old-skool workers were retiring in those days, they were changing over to more automated manufacturing, or whatever.

Then a few years ago I was browsing Paul Watts's table at a show. There was a gorgeous HW 30 he had tuned and re-stocked, and the metal polish / blueing on the gun were so awesome I asked if he'd re-done it. He looked at me like I'd just grown a third eye (he's GREAT at that look! ), assured me it was the OEM blueing, and I duly slunk away. It woulda been made in the time range you mention.

 

[Mycapt65]

Thanks Ron, a very interesting note. By "better quality," I was thinking more in terms of exterior than interior - you being far, far ahead of me in looking at the latter.

I've seen HW's made in the 70's/80's that have some weirdness in fit-and-finish. Most are fine but you also see crooked barrels, bad metal polishing, scope groove spacing not quite to spec, stocks with putty patches, etc. Toxylon's .22 35E is an example. I figger maybe a lot of old-skool workers were retiring and they were changing over to more automated manufacturing in those days.

Then a few years ago I was browsing Paul Watts's table at a show. There was a gorgeous HW 30 he had tuned and re-stocked, and the metal finish and blueing on the gun were so awesome that I asked if he'd re-done it. He looked at me like I'd just grown a third eye (!), and assured me it was the OEM blueing. That woulda been one made in the time range you mention.

How's this for a crooked barrel. This was an almost new Hw35. The owner never noticed it IIRC. I'm not sure of the date of production. I believe its from just before the ditched the beloved fiinger groove stocks.

 

[Mycapt65]

On the outside I think the newer Weihrauchs are done very well. As pragmatic mechanic and a bit of a performance perfectionist I'm disappointed in their products post covid. Hopefully Weihrauch can get their stuff together before the glitz isn't enough to overcome poor quality. They need to be careful. The high end springer market is dying and while they maybe enjoying a glut now being the big dog in a small market it would behoove them not to ruin their shrinking market with bad quality rifles.

The glitz initially sells rifles but it's reliable and enjoyable performance keeps people wanting more. Many people never notice the problems I find because I'm so focused on the machinery's maximum performance. Most people are happy with the performance they get not realizing any better.

 

[JimmyV]

I had a brand new HW35E , the compression cylinder was so out of round that it was a joke. Sent it back to Krale. They said it was fine and sent it back with a broken stock. I ended up getting a new cylinder from TW Chambers, to fix the problem.

 

[SpiralGroove]

I have and have had several classic HW’s and have never seen a barrel leade like that. Nor do any of my end plugs not tighten securely when the scope rails become aligned. I am glad this is shooting well and is sorted out. But I wouldn’t say this is a good comparison to bolster the claim that the newer HW’s are better quality than the old. I have no doubt the newer ones are better, but I wouldn’t say this is representative of the older guns. Unless I have just been extremely lucky with mine.

Edit: this is the second instance of poor brazing in the comp tube I have heard recently. So that is a valid point assuming the new ones don’t have that issue.

Yeah Silver,
The End Plug issue is pretty rare …… I’ve never seen that.

 

[SpiralGroove]

That depends on your definition of newer. Mike you got some old I would agree up until about covid. I only got into Weihrauchs in 2015. I now have 14 Weihrauchs in three different calibers from 1983 to 2021. I've owned two others in that date range. Sold one because I didn't like the trajectory and parted out another because it failed terminally(2000my). I've probably worked on another two dozen for other people I consider friends that fell in the same date ranges.

It's either 6 of the last 7 or 5 of the last 6 brand new Weihrauchs sent to me since 2021 have had serious defects due to heinously poor assembly and or terrible production QC. Two of the examples I listed in my post above were terminal and returned to the vendors for refund or exchange. The rest I fixed the best I could and made into fair functioning rifles.

Some people are enamored by the myth of old is better. I don't necessarily agree. That again depends on the definition of old. In my experience these guns always had intermittent problems over the years. They were slowly improving until the last few years where I've seen an undeniable string of back to back bad ones. Even if its only 5 of the last 6, those are terrible odds. I'm done buying airguns anyway but I can tell you I'm certainly not buying any more new Weihrauchs for myself until I see an uptick in their QC. If I were lookin for a Weihrauch I'd be looking for a stamped receiver made between 2012 and 2018. IMO those were the best made in the last 40 or so years. Prior to that I have no clue.. I'll leave that determination to more experienced guys like you.

Ron, I bought a new HW 35E and HW50S in December 2024 and will be tuning them shortly. We’ll see how good/bad they are.

- > I just got through tuning a friends HW50S purchased in 2018 and everything looked good. There is a small braze drip at the bottom edge of the compression tube, but It appears to be have been machined flat and hasn’t damaged the piston seal.

 

[SpiralGroove]

On the outside I think the newer Weihrauchs are done very well. As pragmatic mechanic and a bit of a performance perfectionist I'm disappointed in their products post covid. Hopefully Weihrauch can get their stuff together before the glitz isn't enough to overcome poor quality. They need to be careful. The high end springer market is dying and while they maybe enjoying a glut now being the big dog in a small market it would behoove them not to ruin their shrinking market with bad quality rifles.

The glitz initially sells rifles but it's reliable and enjoyable performance keeps people wanting more. Many people never notice the problems I find because I'm so focused on the machinery's maximum performance. Most people are happy with the performance they get not realizing any better.

Ron, what was your solution or trick to remove excess braze from the bottom of the compression chamber?

 

[SpiralGroove]

I had a brand new HW35E , the compression cylinder was so out of round that it was a joke. Sent it back to Krale. They said it was fine and sent it back with a broken stock. I ended up getting a new cylinder from TW Chambers, to fix the problem.

Wow Jimmy, I would have hammered Krale on their website.
Did you take apart the gun for inspection to verify your out-of-roundness belief?

I have now purchased about 20 files from Krale going back to 2016.
I’ve never been shafted by them and consider them to be the world’s best Weihrauch vender.

That said, I‘ve gotten a few with problems and they have either paid for me to return it or have sent me new stocks for ones that came broken. I didn’t return the broken stocks either ……. telling them “If you want to pay to have it returned -> fine”. They never wanted to pay to have them shipped back after seeing damage photos.

 

[bustachip]

View attachment 541178Got this R8 (on the right) a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure I'd keep it or not because I didn't realize how heavy they are. Then I liked it less after I shot it. The barrel shot to the right a fair bit, accuracy wasn't great, it was dieseling and the extreme spead was something like 60. Obviously it needed work.

Apart in the shop it got worse. The threaded receiver was already too loose and rotates past alignment. Which I thought odd because this gun's never been apart. Every other threaded receiver rifle I've worked on were very tight the first time apart.

Then I found the piston seal lip was all chewed up. This explained the dieseling and huge extreme spread. There was a corresponding rough piece of braze sticking up in the end corner of the compression tube that was chewing up the seal lip. This is really bad because it'll perpetually trash every replacement seal. Effectively making the gun trash.
View attachment 541175
Then I went to the barrel. It has the roughest cut leade I've ever seen, a loose bore and no choke. I recently had a R7 sent to me with a similar barrel and the accuracy was terribly inconsistent. The only practical option was to replace it. Problem here is R8 barrels don't grow on trees.

On top of all this I messed up the only good part on the gun when I knocked it over and lightly dented the stock. Between all these things wrong and the denting the stock I almost wanted to cry. After all I couldn't sell it knowing all these things wrong with it. My only choice was to try to fix it.

I wont get into details but after a good bit of head scratching I finally figured out how to fix the comp tube. I replaced the piston seal with a Vortek seal. Locktited the receiver and did all the other regular tune stuff. I rolled the dice on the barrel as is and would worry about fixing it if it wasn't accurate. Then the weather went to ship and wasn't able to test it for over a week. Until today.
View attachment 541169
I'm very happy to say the gun is accurate and a joy to shoot. The energy calculation is a little off because the actual pellet was 7.33gr. It's actually 8.67 fpe. I'm quite proud of the chronograph numbers. A single digit extreme spread over 45 shots is pretty darn good. The accuracy is much better than I'd ever expect from a loose chokeless barrel with a crappie leade. Certainly good enough for me. Especially considering this is only initial testing in less than ideal conditions. These are five shot groups (circle OD is 0.562") at 25 yards.
View attachment 541171
After today's succesful testing I gifted it a Beeman Honey Dipper and a new breech seal
View attachment 541172

View attachment 541173

Nice work! Those chrony numbers are great, now find the best pellet and wait for warmer weather, it looks really cold on the range.

 

[JimmyV]

Wow Jimmy, I would have hammered Krale on their website.
Did you take apart the gun for inspection to verify your out-of-roundness belief?

I have now purchased about 20 files from Krale going back to 2016.
I’ve never been shafted by them and consider them to be the world’s best Weihrauch vender.

That said, I‘ve gotten a few with problems and they have either paid for me to return it or have sent me new stocks for ones that came broken. I didn’t return the broken stocks either ……. telling them “If you want to pay to have it returned -> fine”. They never wanted to pay to have them shipped back after seeing damage photos.

Yes I opened it up and replaced the piston seal. Took it to a machine shop and they said the tube was out of round. Krale said since I opened it that they would not warranty it. There so called gun smith said the tube was fine. After I replaced the cylinder tube it was fine. I contacted Weihrauch and they didn’t do a thing.

 

[JimmyV]

also had a newer HW77K that shot a pattern like a shot gun. Ended my dealings with newer Weihrauchs And Krale.

 

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Guys,
Last of all …… if we were to take prices charged for Weihrauch or Beeman air rifles back in-the 1970’s or 80’s, we can see …. adding simple inflation to those historic prices -> results in way ….way higher prices than we currently pay.

So (historically) we’re getting a bargain as these products have lagged way behind inflation increases in housing, auto’s, food or clothing prices …. Let alone health care.