HW/Weihrauch New WH30 problems

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fullpower

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Jan 24, 2022
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NS, Canada
I would appreciate a bit of help here as sort of hit the wall.
I recently purchased a new WH30s and so far it has been a very frustrating process, probably the worst shooting gun I’ve ever owned . The problem is there are sudden drastic shifts in the horizontal POI ? It’s as if the power is suddenly cut in half?
The barrel was cleaned, and all the stock screws were torque to specs . However, at 23 yards the best group I could get were quarter inch by 12 inches. Yep , 12 inches. Some groups of 10 shots were spread out 18 inches horizontally. I probably put about 300 shots through it . I assumed it must of had a bad piston seal or maybe a faulty spring. The breech seal looked as a new one should . I disassemble the gun and hoped to recognize a problem.
There was a slight flat spot on the piston seal , wasn’t overly lubed . There was very little initial desilling .
I remove the factory grease and re-lube very lightly, I Install a new Vortek spring and Vortech piston seal. Unfortunately the same issues persisted. It would feel great for the first 16 or 20 shots and then a pellet would almost just roll out the barrel and fall on the floor. Crosman 7.9 doomed were actually getting stuck half way down the barrel. The real confusing part was on paper after shooting it over my chrono,it should’ve been an absolute laser of a rifle. JSB, 8.44 shot an average of 620 ft./lbs, standard deviation of 1.55 and an extreme spread of 3.2. I’ve never seen numbers like that before in any of my guns which include a TX200, , AA Pro sport, two Diana 54’s, WH50, , R9 and WH 97k. I did test and shoot a number of quality pellets with somewhat similar results. Something* just doesn’t add up here.
It seems to shoit great for a little while and then the whole bottom drops out. I took it apart again and thought maybe the vortex seal was too tight however it was pushing out 7.2 foot pounds which is probably what it should. I remove the vortex seal and put in a new WH 30 seal. I can tell you that Vortex seal is a serious piece of rubber. Even after having the pistons sit in a cup of boiling water for about 10 minutes , the Vortek did not come off easy.
The latest version which was today, the gun actually seems to be shooting surprisingly good. One thing I did discovered from all the tear downs was that the pivot bolt appears to get loose very quickly . This is one thing that I never checked and unless looking for it, would not know it. Maybe that was causing the drastic horizontal shift of the POI? I hope so. I should find out in the next couple of days as I shoot an hour every day. I’m actually nervous to shoot the gun again as if it’s not, I don’t know what else to do.
if I missed something or if somebody has any other ideas I would love to hear them.
Thanks
Al
 
For clarity, you keep mentioning horizontal dispersion, but correlating low velocities which might suggest a vertical dispersion issue. Just to be sure, which is it? When did the pellets roll out of the barrel versus recording the exceptional chronograph readings? If everything is good on the power supply side, I’m wondering if a combination of pivot pin, barrel detent, or breech seal are failing you, and the transfer of air is the problem. Also curious, open sights or optic?
 
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Variations in pivot bolt tightness can have a meaningful impact on horizontal POI. I set tension so that the barrel is loose enough to fall about 2/3s of the cocking stroke under its own weight. But the most important thing is that the tension does not vary. Maybe use some loc-tight if your pivot bolt becomes loose after shooting. In all other respects your hw30 seems to be shooting well. Good luck.
R
 
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Since you obviously know your way around working on the guns, I'm probably insulting your intelligence with this...🙄...but here goes:

All HW rifles have a similar-looking, big round slotted bolt head on each side of the breech jaws. The one on the left side of the breech is the actual bolt passing through to the other side; the one on the right side is a separate locking nut. To adjust the tension:
+ Crank the left screw head until the tension is where you want it. With the HW 30's ball detent you don't want it too tight, but obviously you shouldn't be able to rock the barrel sideways.
+ Holding this in place with a separate screwdriver or similar tool, tighten the right screw head to refusal. This collapses the lock washer beneath it, locking in the adjustment setting.

Simple enuff design, and works well - yet not obvious from looking at the gun! And, kind of a clumsy job until you get used to it (FWIW...an FWB rifle sight tool fits the slot perfectly and is an efficient "third hand." A screwdriver bit in a ratchet handle works too.)

IMG_5465.jpeg
 
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Thanks for the comment windmill01. Selling it is probably the best way forward here but how could I honestly sell it to someone unless I pretty well gave it away. I probably just answered my own question. The thing is I must’ve read over 50 maybe 60 reviews about this gun and not one person seem to have any issues with it? I can’t be that unlucky because it’s happened actually before. I don’t think one of my Springers ever shot well out of the box , especially my TX 200 .Maybe that’s a good thing because I’ve had to take every one of them apart and put in new springs or Vortech kits , piston seal etc. I’m not a mechanically orientated guy but now really enjoy takeng my guns apart except when they are one day old. Fortunately the WH 30 is a very simple gun to dismantle and put back together. The breech bolt shim washers are usually the sticking point for me. It’s usually a 50-50 deal. Occasionally they go in easy but most times it’s stressful procedure. I just don’t understand as I stated in my initial comment why this gun shoots great for 15 or 20 shots but the next five will be 12 inches low and that’s at 23 yards. it has to be the spring , piston seal or breach seal. What else could it be ? maybe I ended up with a bad original spring and the vortex spring is bad. I’ll probably just end up throwing more parts into it and hoping for the best . When it goes she accurate it is really a lot of fun.
 
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Tumblinginflight said:
For clarity, you keep mentioning horizontal dispersion, but correlating low velocities which might suggest a vertical dispersion issue. Just to be sure, which is it? When did the pellets roll out of the barrel versus recording the exceptional chronograph readings? If everything is good on the power supply side, I’m wondering if a combination of pivot pin, barrel detent, or breech seal are failing you, and the transfer of air is the problem. Also curious, open sights or optic?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comment Myecapt65. I’d did make a mistake , I meant vertical spread , not horizontal. Thank you for pointing that out to me. The pellet that stuck in the barrel were Crosman domed 7.9, the ones you get in the big brown box . During my research on here I read some we’re having great results so I purchase them . Unfortunately they were really tight in the barrel and because of the very low power that’s probably why they stuck.
The almost unbelievable chronograph readings were from the JSB 8.44’s and that was also with the Vortek spring Vortek piston seal . These pallets were also unexpectedly dropped out of sight , way down and then slowly come back up to the original POA showing a long vertical string.
Darn!! When one of my guns is not shooting well I don’t sleep well. I know , I have a problem . Maybe I should see a psychiatrist.
But, tonight I shot about 80 -100 AA falcon 7.33’s. Gun shot extremely well for most of the time but there were the occasional “here we go again” 8 inches low for three or four shots . That’s at 23 yards. This is huge progress so I’m starting to feel a little bit better about this gun. I think the pivot bolt loosening was causing the vertical string but as of the sudden loss of power , I’m at a loss with that one.
You mentioned the transfer of air might be a problem. What exactly were you referring to there? Does that have something to do with the port? I don’t know much about that? I
 
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EMrider said:
Variations in pivot bolt tightness can have a meaningful impact on horizontal POI. I set tension so that the barrel is loose enough to fall about 2/3s of the cocking stroke under its own weight. But the most important thing is that the tension does not vary. Maybe use some loc-tight if your pivot bolt becomes loose after shooting. In all other respects your hw30 seems to be shooting well. Good luck.
R
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Thanks for taking the time to reply R. I made a mistake in my initial explanation . I should’ve said vertical string instead of horizontal string , may have caused some confusion. I did try your idea of putting some Loctite on the pivot bolt end but true to form somehow I managed to strip the nut so it would not catch on the bolt threads.
EMrider said:
Variations in pivot bolt tightness can have a meaningful impact on horizontal POI. I set tension so that the barrel is loose enough to fall about 2/3s of the cocking stroke under its own weight. But the most important thing is that the tension does not vary. Maybe use some loc-tight if your pivot bolt becomes loose after shooting. In all other respects your hw30 seems to be shooting well. Good luck.
R
Click to expand...
Thanks for taking the time to reply are R . I made a mistake in my initial explanation as I said horizontal. What I really meant was vertical spread. I think the pivot bolt issue was causing the vertical spread and I did try your suggestion of putting some Loctite on it. However somehow I managed to strip the nut that attaches to the bolt. Almost took a heart attack.
I took off all the Loctite and put gobs of grease on it , finally got the threads to catch the bolt. It seems to be shooting better tonight, using air arms Falcons 7.33’s
 
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MDriskill said:
Since you obviously know your way around working on the guns, I'm probably insulting your intelligence with this...🙄...but here goes:

To set the HW 30's pivot bolt tension setting, note that the slotted head on the left side of the breech is the actual breech bolt, and the right side is a separate locking nut. To adust it:
+ Crank the left screw head until the tension is where you want it. With the HW 30's ball detent you don't want it too tight, but obviously you shouldn't be able to rock the barrel sideways.
+ Holding this in place with a separate screwdriver or similar tool, tighten the right screw head to refusal. This collapses the lock washer beneath it.

Simple enuff and works well - yet not obvious from looking at the gun! And, kind of a clumsy job until you get used to it (FWIW...an FWB rifle sight tool fits the slot perfectly and is an efficient "third hand").

Hey MDriskill , Thank you so much for your explanation concerning the proper procedure for adjusting the pivot bolt. I was not doing that correctly. Great information for my situation .
Click to expand...
 
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No worries on the comment. Reading your post again one of the issues I had with the lemon was barrel lock up. Check by tapping down on the barrel after cocking if there is any movement there is a problem with the detent. That’s one of the many issues mine had.
Some say that the detent issue will improve over time as the breach seal compresses. But in my case this didn’t happen as I think ide put over several thousands pellets through it.
 
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OK, this may be even more lame than my previous post! But it does sound like the breech seal could be at fault. Two things:

+ Be sure it is fully seated. It fits so tightly that it can trap air beneath and thus sit a little too proud.
+ Be sure it's turned the right way. The flat face goes inside the recess, and the rounded one faces out to seal.
 
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When I mentioned the transfer of air, I was suspecting that the air is being compressed just fine, but escaping before entering the barrel. An improperly functioning detent or breech seal would explain the phenomenon you are seeing. The old troubleshooting trick was to lay a tissue or other very lightweight material over the breech area while shooting, and if the discharge of air blew it away, you knew something was amiss with the seal/lockup.
 
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MdFiskI’ll & Tumblingflight , E Mrider, Fishing43 and Windmill01, Thanks for taking the time to respond with very helpful comments. Yes I did try the tissue test as thought it might possibly be a bad breach seal. The seal was new and looked new. It appear to be put in with the flat side down , round side out. Then I thought maybe when it was put in at the factory they pushed it straight in and trap some air or maybe some grease on the bottom causing it to sit up to high but I haven’t pick it out yet.
The breech seems to lock up with a definite clunk and tight. I put a couple of strands of my dog hairs between the barrel and the breech and locked it up . I could not pull the dog hair out without breaking it so it’s pretty tight. I also took the front sight off , but barrel in my mouth and tried to draw some air through the barrel but no air.
Im still at a loss . It seems to be the only gun I want to shoot as I am hoping it will somehow work these issues out with just putting more lead down the barrel.
Today was typical as I fired groups of 10 shots at 25 yards with the first eight usually pretty tight then number nine , 3 inches low and the number 10 , 7 -10 inches long., WHAT!! DARN!, here we go again .
I discovered for sure it does not like loose fitting pellets regardless of the weight and also seems that excessively tight fitting pellets don’t preform well either narrowing down the selection quite a bit.
I was going to order a TB T tuning kit from Nick over in the UK because it might be the spring but he doesn’t have any in stock at the moment. He seems like a very approachable guy as he got back to me right away and told me to measure the inside diameter of the piston and he might be able to make something up for me. If things don’t turn around Within the next 1000 or so shots, I may go that route.
But as I said in one of my earlier comments I just seen to be throwing parts at this new gun and hoping for the best. I wish I could just put this in back of the closet with a towel over it and forget about it but I can’t .
Thanks again for all your comments and help.
Al
 
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I don't think I've seen a mention above of how tightly to adjust the breech. With a ball-bearing detent like the HW 30, you definitely don't want it too tight. After you cock the gun, raise the barrel, let it go, it should fall of its own weight but with some drag. Make the breech only tight enough to avoid any lateral movement. And be sure the breech side washers, sprung detent ball, and its locking bar on the standing breech, have some lube on 'em.

Coastal drifter makes a good point - scopes can do weird stuff too! As a control, try shooting some groups with iron sights. (Personally, I love peep sights on springers; got a Williams on my R7.)

And oh yeah...not that I'm anal or pedantic or anything...the gun is an HW 30, NOT a "WH" 30! 😜

IMG_5731.jpeg
 
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