Non- Lead Ammo

[Chief Ten-Beers]

Has anyone ever found a Non Lead Pellet that is accurate? I went through a bunch of old threads, but nothing current. I found nothing over 16 gr and those were a Crosman with a Plastic skirt on them. Does anyone else make any in that weight? Or Heavier? I see the speed is there but FPE is very low. Any suggestions?

 

[GeneT]

I have great accuracy with the H&N Green in .22 in multiple rifles. But yeah, they're light. When shotgun ammo needed to be lead-free to hunt around waterways, some good alternatives were developed - tungsten, bismuth, etc. Some of it even better than lead (in that application). I haven't found anything like that in pellets, but would like to.

GsT

Edit: typo

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

I have great accuracy with the H&N Green in .22 in multiple rifles. But yeah, they're light. When shotgun ammo needed to be lead-free to hunt around waterways, some good alternatives were developed - tungsten, bismuth, etc. Some of it even better than lead (in that application). I haven't found anything like that in pellets, but would like to.

GsT

Edit: typo

Agreed. It seems that Hunting in "Greenie" States, they would rather have Wounded Animals than DRT? Hopefully Manufacturers will take notice.

 

[MrP]

There are alternative casting metals believe Rotometals sells some. I wonder if some creative person cooked up some pellets with an alternative to the shiny light metal alloys that are currently used, if they would make bank?

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

There are alternative casting metals believe Rotometals sells some. I wonder if some creative person cooked up some pellets with an alternative to the shiny light metal alloys that are currently used, if they would make bank?

One would think so? No doubt it would be much more expensive ammo, but if it worked? It would sell IMO.

 

[SilentSquirrel]

I'd certainly try Bismuth pellets if they were available in a 15-28 grain, 22 caliber.
Any thoughts on whether bismuth will foul a rifled barrel?

 

[maxtrouble]

One would think so? No doubt it would be much more expensive ammo, but if it worked? It would sell IMO.

I have had decent accuracy results with the GTO and H&N green and copper pellets. However, they ricochet much more than lead pellets. I will stick with lead pellets.

 

[beerthief]

how long of a life span (in the earth ) would Bismuth pellets have ?
We are just recycling the lead back from where it came aren't we ?
copper is not poisonous ?

 

[Hold_Over]

Lead is used for a whole lot of reasons, the weight advantage over other materials, low cost/high availabilty raw material. Low melting temp which likely helps keep down production costs. As well as being soft enough to not wear out barrels passing through thousands of times.
Finding a "green" alternative that is a true replacement is not something I see in the near future.

 

[Peashooter]

I got a box of 8.5 gr lead free Zan slugs, for my friend to try in his anemic rifles, they was not good in those, and i of course have not tried in mine CUZ that will have to wait until hell freeze over, or in Danish terms Copenhagen freeze over.

 

[ChrisT]

Bismuth alloy from Rotometals shows quite a bit of promise. As most of our air gun slugs are smooth sided the minor pitfall of its expansion as it cools isnt a big deal, in the powdered burner world the grease grooves cause some problems, but that can be alleviated by minor changes to mold. How it would work on a wasp waisted pellet not sure , but considering those are not squared corners likely not a problem. I didn't dig deep into this as to running through sizing die if needed. Maybe a 15-20% weight loss vs pure lead. Tungsten and expended uranium based items are likely too hard- not to mention pricy.

 

[Ballisticboy]

This study, https://www.airgunnation.com/threads/lead-and-lead-free-pellets.1283547/ suggested that lead free pellets give larger group sizes than lead pellets under the same conditions. This will mean that lead free pellets need to be a better fit to your barrel than the equivalent lead pellet for the same group size, and thus fewer barrels will give satisfactory results.

If your barrel happens to fit one of the lead free pellets, it will give good group sizes, at least at shorter ranges. The velocity drop will still be much higher, so long range energy will be low and long range behaviour may be unsatisfactory with lead free pellets.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

I got a box of 8.5 gr lead free Zan slugs, for my friend to try in his anemic rifles, they was not good in those, and i of course have not tried in mine CUZ that will have to wait until hell freeze over, or in Danish terms Copenhagen freeze over.

Sadly Lead free will never work well in the anemic barrels, at least not the zans. The description specifically states only for high powered rifles, the friction from projectile to barrel is too much for them to work properly.

I've had success with those 8.5gr lead free slugs but that was out of my AT44 shooting them at 935fps

 

[Berserkeley Mike]

- I shoot unleaded exclusively for several years now. On average, the accuracy seems as good as lead for ~2/3 of the distance of that lead pellet. So a rifle that shoots a 1" (2.5cm) group at 45 meters with a good lead pellet, might now only be able to shoot 1" at 30 meters with a good unleaded. I've only had luck with the diabolo shapes, the plastic saboted steel tipped pellets haven't been accurate in my guns.
That said, I can "good" groups at 50m with H&N Baracuda Greens and Predator GTOs, but only in .25. The .22s start to scatter by that distance. My guess is that with practice and optimization, I'll get there with the .22s too. But yes, lead pellets will inherently be more accurate because with the extra density, their BCs are better. If that accuracy is my expectation then I will be disappointed. But compared with throwing rocks, my second backyard option, I'm very happy with unleaded pellets. And there are some that just happen to shoot really well in some guns, so if one has a gun that prefers lightweight pellets, unleaded might be worth a try.
- I still have to try slugs or heavier-than-commercial unleaded pellets (thanks, NOE!), or cast bismuth projectiles, which weigh about as much as lead.
- Tin is only slightly harder than lead, both Mohs 1.5, and Bismuth is only a little harder at 2.25. Relatively, even soft steel is much harder, Mohs 4.5. I wouldn't worry about wearing out the barrel with any of those metals. Maybe wet patch clean once in a while, as lead, tin or bismuth oxides can be as hard as steel.

 

[Hold_Over]

- I shoot unleaded exclusively for several years now.

This is purely out of curiousity...if the lead free option from what I have seen is more expensive, and by you own account less accurate....what is the upside that has made you want to shoot them exclusively?

 

[Berserkeley Mike]

This is purely out of curiousity...if the lead free option from what I have seen is more expensive, and by you own account less accurate....what is the upside that has made you want to shoot them exclusively?

Yes, more expensive and not as accurate. But I shoot in my backyard and think it is worth the losses to not have to concern myself with lead metal. In my opinion from what I think I know as facts, to shoot lead responsibly would include collecting all the pellets to keep them from backyard chickens or kids, and handling the pellets and cleaning patches with some degree of hazmat protocol, at least washing hands a lot more, not eating or drinking and maybe wearing gloves. With tin, the toxicity is a thousand fold lower, so I don't have to care. I don't _need_ the extra accuracy of lead and can afford unleaded pellets (I do shop around and stock up on good deals), and I also don't need one more thing to worry about when I'm trying to relax behind the scope. Quality of life vs. quality of ammunition.

 

[beerthief]

Bismuth alloy from Rotometals shows quite a bit of promise. As most of our air gun slugs are smooth sided the minor pitfall of its expansion as it cools isnt a big deal, in the powdered burner world the grease grooves cause some problems, but that can be alleviated by minor changes to mold. How it would work on a wasp waisted pellet not sure , but considering those are not squared corners likely not a problem. I didn't dig deep into this as to running through sizing die if needed. Maybe a 15-20% weight loss vs pure lead. Tungsten and expended uranium based items are likely too hard- not to mention pricy.

expended uranium based items ? Karens would explode !

 

[Hold_Over]

Yes, more expensive and not as accurate. But I shoot in my backyard and think it is worth the losses to not have to concern myself with lead metal. In my opinion from what I think I know as facts, to shoot lead responsibly would include collecting all the pellets to keep them from backyard chickens or kids, and handling the pellets and cleaning patches with some degree of hazmat protocol, at least washing hands a lot more, not eating or drinking and maybe wearing gloves. With tin, the toxicity is a thousand fold lower, so I don't have to care. I don't _need_ the extra accuracy of lead and can afford unleaded pellets (I do shop around and stock up on good deals), and I also don't need one more thing to worry about when I'm trying to relax behind the scope. Quality of life vs. quality of ammunition.

I gotcha...I admit I don't concern myself with the amount of lead exposure due to handling pellets. I do wash up before eating or taking a wad of dip out of the tin. I have been friends with guys who have involved themselves with pistol training as an instructor. Gun dealing, and competitive target shooting/practice. Even the combination of the 3 did not have any significant impact in blood levels. He did have some concern at 1 point, but it was found to be lead in the tap water at his place and not shooting related. Once the plumbing issues were resolved, so were any health concerns.

 

[beerthief]

i wonder how non lead pellets would do in a paper target usage , like the 30 yard or 50 yard paper ?
any one make wadcutter non lead ?
ok , just looked up lead free .177 flat (wadcutter) Yikes 5.? light weight and pricy . .07 each x 1200 pellets a week = $84.00

 

[ChrisT]

Depleted would have been a better choice of words I suppose. It is denser than lead, The low level radiation of alpha particles are unable to penetrate human skin. You are more apt to be severely compromised by everyday pollutants or many household cleaning agents.