Offhand accuracy

[damageINC]

I've been shooting a bunch with my Matador and the accuracy has been impressive at about 23 yards when resting on a perch (size of my yard). One thing I have noticed, however, is how hard it is to shoot offhand. My best guess is it is the weight and it's balance being toward the barrel since my scope is mounted pretty far forward so I get proper eye relief. Anyone else experience this? When I shot as a kid, air rifles weren't nearly as high quality but also heavy as these so offhand with iron sights was easy.

 

[Scotay42]

Use your offhand arm and brace into your side. You will have a closer grip than usual, but it will help with the weight.

 

[Firewalker]

Offhand PB training is changing and pulling the foregrip back with your off hand can add stabilization and helps with quick accusation.

 

[MikeVV]

As with most in the military, they shoot...freehand / offhand ! Only the guys with the heavy guns get tripods.

Also, as with most everything in nature...it takes a little work, practice or, training to learn something new.

All I do is shoot freehand also. No outside stick help. It's a good feeling when "I"...can hit what I'm aiming at, using only my skills, or the lack of.
I'm rapidly coming up on 72 years old. One thing that really bothers me...I...used to be... a LOT better when I was younger. Shooting both (firearms) rifles and pistols. It gets annoying when the barrel moves around, now, vs. when I was young. The barrel used to stay where where I put it. Nowadays, I need to "anticipate" when the barrel / sight is going to be where I want it to be to pull the trigger.
I actually do ok when I concentrate, but occasionally, it's just not worth fighting old age, but I have to keep trying !
As the saying goes..."Don't let the old man in !"

One thing that I've found, is my support hand while shooting rifles, I keep close in. That is close to the trigger guard, rather than way out by the end of the gun like some do. I've found that it's easier to keep the gun steady with my support elbow resting on my chest, and my support hand, open, palm up, located just ahead of the trigger.

Keep practicing... Ultimately, it IS very rewarding when JUST..."you and the gun"... hit your target.


Mike

 

[damageINC]

Thanks all. I had tried the biathlon style grip where I use the flat of the forestock and the side of my arm in my body to form a right angle but it's going to take some work. To be fair, the targets I make are little dots on paper about the size of a pellet. That coupled with the fact that I've never used a scope before changes what "accuracy" really means. I'll keep at it.

 

[Airisking]

Shooting off hand is always difficult sitting position is closest to bench but standing the further the weaker my accuracy becomes

 

[pdxFrank]

resting your elbow on your hip helps stabilize. i have a long torso so i have to lean back a way to do it. takes some getting used to, but does allow for a steadier shot and reduces fatigue.

 

[boscoebrea]

the way you plant your feet relative to your shoulders, you want a stable balance=platform.
Another thing that helps is Boots,I need good support for my feet,ankles, which keeps me in place better.
Real big help is, if you can use it ,a rifle sling.
There are many articles online that also give good info.
Oh yea, your trigger control is even more important, you what a nice trigger pull.
As you can see there are many aspects in hitting the Bulleye in offhand shooting.

 

[damageINC]

Another thing I've noticed which I wasn't expecting, is (at least at the distance I'm forced to shoot), full magnification is not helpful. Feels like I'm watching an earthquake movie. I've actually moved from x16 to x10 and it feels better for me. I also have a Brocock Specialist which, embarrassingly, I haven't shot because it's just too loud for discharging in the yard. But it's design is slightly longer and more traditional and it does feel like it shoulders a little better. But again, putting a lb+ scope on anything is going to change the feel. I recall standing in Brian's shop and messing with a R5M Long and it felt crazy light because it was unscoped.

 

[Ezana4CE]

I've been shooting a bunch with my Matador and the accuracy has been impressive at about 23 yards when resting on a perch (size of my yard). One thing I have noticed, however, is how hard it is to shoot offhand. My best guess is it is the weight and it's balance being toward the barrel since my scope is mounted pretty far forward so I get proper eye relief. Anyone else experience this? When I shot as a kid, air rifles weren't nearly as high quality but also heavy as these so offhand with iron sights was easy.

@DamagedINC For the R5M platform I think the Lelya is more of an offhand friendly bullpup then the longer Matadors. Its compact build is pretty light and balanced for shooting offhand (it feels as if more weight is towards the stock IMO, but this can be offset with the type of mounts and scope used). I hunt a lot of small game with mine and I speak from a hunting perspective. That’s not to say that it cannot be done consistently with a standard length R5M.

As for magnification levels while shooting offhand, I’ve learned that lower is better for me. On a 3-12x scope I like to shoot using 5-6x magnification at 35-40 yards and under. It also helps to practice how you intend to shoot. For example, if you are practicing benchrest styled shooting then high magnification is great because the gun is likely being shot from a stable surface with shooting aids so there isn’t a lot of movement when seated using bipods, bags, rests, etc. When shooting from forced positions your base is your body and it doesn’t remain still or rock steady. So lowering the magnification allows for more wiggle room because you’re forced to focus on a smaller target and when that target moves in your sights it doesn’t appear to be as exaggerated as is using higher or maximum magnification. You can learn how to time the rhythm of your “wobble” (movement of the crosshairs with your body’s movement) to shoot decent groups which is useful in understanding your capabilities for offhand shooting.

For me, if my offhand precision (groups) looks acceptable on paper (within the kill zone), then I trust that I will hit animals with similar consistency. When my range makes it difficult to shoot precisely then I know that I’ve reached my limit or I can work to increase my effective shooting range. So far this has been the case for. Perhaps some of this is applicable to you as well. Also what @pdxFrank demonstrates in his photo with placing his elbow against his torso is an effective way to better stabilize one’s self for offhand shooting, especially if it will take a while to track or keep your target in your sights long enough to take a desirable shot. Since you’re new using scopes, it may not take you long to adjust. Your offhand shooting will improve with practice. Keep at it.

 

[elh0102]

I think you will find some of the best instruction for position shooting is found in the service rifle world. There are lots of books and videos that get into technique for offhand and other positions. The accuracy these shooters achieve is amazing, and it takes a lot of work. As for the scope power, the rifle is moving the same amount whether you use a 3X or 20X scope. The higher magnification shows you in greater detail just how much work there is to be done. So, don't disregard the training value of a higher power scope. No one holds the rifle absolutely motionless, you just have to release the shot at the right time.

 

[Chuck-in-Ohio]

I always try to assume the position demonstrated by pdxFrank above IF no additional rest or support is available.
Work on your foot spacing to find what is most stable for you.
Adjust your azimuth by sliding your rear foot for rotation, and adjust your elevation by sliding your rear foot in and out.
Breath control, watching and timing your pulse bounce, and tripping the sear when going into the target are all skills that can be mastered in one way.

You guessed it......Practice Practice Practice

You may find that how you rest the foreend on your off hand affects your accuracy as well.
Some rest it on their fist, some use their fingertips. I touch my pinky to my thumb and set the rifle into my hand forming a V block between the pinky thumb combo, and the other three fingers on the opposite side of the fore end. You don't have to keep the thumb and pinky touching, adjust to what suits you.

 

[c_m_shooter]

Nobody is good at offhand unless they practice it a lot. It is easier to shoot rested, so that is how most shooting is done now. A heavy rifle is a good thing once you figure out how to get under it like the picture frank posted.

 

[Firewalker]

I'm in a different school where I learned to shoot off hand at house sparrows on the power line. I took that to my service and learned to aquire and shoot "targets" quickly while moving through structures.

Now days, I sit in a folding chair sipping on an adult beverage and shoot pinecone off the tall pines at 50y.

I am using my AEA Carbine in .22 tuned for CPHP's with a carbon fiber .43l bottle to keep the weight down up front.

It's amazing how quickly I tire now but this daily practice nets me hits most every shot and keeps those muscles strong.

Bottom line: practice, practice, practice

 

[damageINC]

Thanks all this is good stuff to hear. I think another thing is just that my conception of accuracy offhand growing up was can I hit a soda can at 40 yrd's with iron sights. I'd never had a weapon that could shoot hole on hole (it's barely in the budget these days, let alone when I was 12). I did notice just trying to hold the gun up and keep it on target worked very similar to weighted bats in baseball...........where then going back to the bench I felt way more stable. It was very noticeable.

 

[thauglor]

The weighted bats in baseball were proven to cause more errors, best practice science found was to practice with the bat that you would be using in a game

I have also read that some of the Olympian air rifle shooters will just hold the rifle aiming at a dot for up to 1.5 hours a day. That is why they can hit a 0.5mm dot at 10m 99% of the time

 

[jwrabbit123]

another thing I do not see mentioned is what I do with my R5M I use a sling and wrapping it on my elbow and tightening it can be extremely stable , I also use simular thing with a tripod is leave my RRS head loose and ues sling to tension , but I like shooting my R5M with sling I used to shoot my R5m 30 superlong and my R5m25 mag , to me sling in them is king for me to be more constant , when I shot my Leyla I did not use sling on this , they just shoulder different .

LOU

 

[Struckat]

Off hand is not easy. It gets harder as you get older. Most of my shooting is @10m like in Franks photo. Position of everything matters.
Then it’s a timing thing. Pull the trigger when I wobble over the target zone.

Out in the woods, none of that works for me. If it’s a scoped gun, I must have a rest, and I am ok with that. With irons, bring the gun up and let er rip.

 

[damageINC]

another thing I do not see mentioned is what I do with my R5M I use a sling and wrapping it on my elbow and tightening it can be extremely stable , I also use simular thing with a tripod is leave my RRS head loose and ues sling to tension , but I like shooting my R5M with sling I used to shoot my R5m 30 superlong and my R5m25 mag , to me sling in them is king for me to be more constant , when I shot my Leyla I did not use sling on this , they just shoulder different .

LOU

Gonna do an unsolicited review sooner or later but I tried multiple sling methods and the best one was the single point picatinny from Magpul. It doesn't get fouled when I shoulder, the hook can be locked, and it rests at around waist level. The downside is someone could mistake it as a PB since it is a common way for military to sling AR's.

 

[damageINC]

I'm also willing to bet as with most sports, a lot of it has to do with core body strength. Keeping yourself still and perfectly weighted is hard physically.