Difficult to say. Unfortunately most companies don't turn over a detailed financial accounting so a lot of things remain mysterious.
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Oh the $$$$....
- Thread starter Spartan
- Start date
Difficult to say. Unfortunately most companies don't turn over a detailed financial accounting so a lot of things remain mysterious.
Nice rig and all, but are you suggesting that no one can hit similar shots with less money spent, or with a budget friendly rifle? I find it hard to believe everyone will agree with that sentiment...many guns with (most importantly) a quality barrel can yield those results with proper the slug, even if it took a custom barrel you could be under $1k spend (on rifle alone) and pull off those shots. Lots of videos on youtube showing similar success with less $$..
-Matt
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Dont really need it, but i am getting a sudden urge to buy a Oneleaf Commander NV 400 scope.
My friend is smacking at least 1 rat every day with his POS 12 years old Belarussian night vision scope.
My friend is smacking at least 1 rat every day with his POS 12 years old Belarussian night vision scope.
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Yeah, I get what you are saying. I shoot both airguns and firearms, and both have done the same thing, price wise. I am a shooter, not a collector of fine things, no matter what they are, so I balance the cost versus my return on guns.
I don't own any "expensive" wares in guns, no matter what is propelling the projectile. I don't own Hi Points, but I also don't own a Korth either. The airguns I have are the same way. I just don't have the deep pockets that others have, and I could not justify being able to spend 2,500 dollars on any gun. Hats off to those that can, but I also have to say that we are living in a time where the general quality of guns are better than they have ever been, at least as far as powder burning guns are concerned.
I have Crosmans, a couple of Dianas and such, none of them high-dollar affairs, but they do fine for me...and I am good with that.
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True, but there's a lot of things that go on in the background that can influence prices that are not obviously apparent.
I worked for a company (briefly!
) that undercut the competition by taking advantage of their employees (forced, unpayed overtime, not paying benefits, terrible working conditions) screwed their suppliers, and did things like illegally using multiple copies of office and CAD software without a license to save costs.At the other end you have companies that screw their customers charging exorbitant prices. There is no way that a simple Atlas bipod is worth what they ask for one, (you can buy a gas lawnmower for that kinda money) when the Chinese can make the same thing for one tenth the cost. Granted, the quality is not the same, but as you say "similar products with similar specs".
So, as a consumer, I'm looking for a decent quality product at a reasonable price. I appreciate products that are better than "just functional" and think that something that is well designed and well made, that will last a long time, is worth investing in.
A Porche is out of my budget but $2k for an airgun I can afford.
Cheers!
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I get a little reluctant to spend high end prices for guns from manufacturers who spend big dollars on advertising. Sponsoring shooting teams. Arranging for youtube videos which are basically long commercials. Those things do not come free. I guess it helps the sport that they do this but they are also doing it to create the impression that their guns are worth more. So we will pay more. When they do well competitively it is great evidence of what their guns are capable of but I am pretty sure that the same shooters could do as well with other guns who's manufacturer is not sponsoring them.
It's been a very long time since I had a marketing course but they teach you that there is a price /volume relationship for any product. The volume you sell is a function of the price you charge. Lower prices = higher volume. A manufacturer has to pick a place on that curve they want to be at. Then make a product which is consistent with that price. My lower priced guns are not machined as well as my one >$1000 airgun. They cannot be and be sold for what they are sold for. But they also don't have to be machined better than they are to perform well. There are also material choices, particularly in my Avenger, that I wish they had done differently but they did it to hit a target cost.
Higher prices also, by themselves, create the impression of higher value. Manufacturers know that too. If they decided to charge half as much, people would wonder what they cheapened in their gun.
Nothing wrong with manufacturers making good money. Nothing wrong with me wanting to get the best gun I can for the money I decide to spend. I don't want to pay for reputation, I do not want to pay for marketing.
It's been a very long time since I had a marketing course but they teach you that there is a price /volume relationship for any product. The volume you sell is a function of the price you charge. Lower prices = higher volume. A manufacturer has to pick a place on that curve they want to be at. Then make a product which is consistent with that price. My lower priced guns are not machined as well as my one >$1000 airgun. They cannot be and be sold for what they are sold for. But they also don't have to be machined better than they are to perform well. There are also material choices, particularly in my Avenger, that I wish they had done differently but they did it to hit a target cost.
Higher prices also, by themselves, create the impression of higher value. Manufacturers know that too. If they decided to charge half as much, people would wonder what they cheapened in their gun.
Nothing wrong with manufacturers making good money. Nothing wrong with me wanting to get the best gun I can for the money I decide to spend. I don't want to pay for reputation, I do not want to pay for marketing.
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LCS was expensive and not plasticy, yet there’s very little support that I can see. Price doesn’t always dictate quality, performance, or support (good value).
To the OP’s initial question. @Spartan I think we did this to ourselves. We allow companies to release what essentially appear to be replicas of prototypes and pay top dollar just to say we were first and post about being one of the first to have something. Then our work from our posting can be used to improve a product that was rushed to market. Helluva business model, dontcha think?
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I get what you’re saying and I’ve tried it. But I don’t want a YouTube video gun. I need a gun that will do it all the time in real life, my life. The problem I ran into with cheaper less powerful guns is you can’t follow the slug where it and your barrel wants to go. And even if you can, because you’re pushing the gun so hard, its shot cycle hurts the potential accuracy when you start to stretch it out. Upper tier guns that produce big power in their sleep make your starting point on this side of the hobby easier.
Some of these upper tier guns, like the one in the picture are still loaded with flaws. But it’s about picking which battles you want to fight. Nowadays I try to pick refinements over hot rodding.
I also shoot mice off this feeder at night with this gun. I might miss one out of five. I have a really good P15 that will shoot pellets and slugs. I have maybe $1,300 in it. It’s really really good out to 100 with both. But it can’t compete with this M3 after that. And I threw the kitchen sink at it. They have the same barrel and same caliber. The naturally more powerful gun just gave me more to work with.
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It doesn't take an upper tier gun to have 'the engine'...that is simply pressure, port diameter, and barrel length....which doesn't take $$$, it takes science...
-Matt
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How loud the pop was at 130 yards kinda caught me off guard. The last time I was shooting this gun was at night. I was shooting mice off that feeder. They make tiny pops. The chipper had a pop with an echo. I kinda lost it.Love the laughing sound you made after the thwack on the chipper. Awesome shot…
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And that’s exactly what we pay AGT, Taipan, FX, AAA, RTI and others for. Their science. Then we can get to work on other things. All I’m saying is for some of us, the building a gun or reinventing it days are over when it comes to the power plant. I’m in no way trying to justify the crazy prices of these toys but there is a difference in the shooting experience of a upper tier gun versus a inexpensive one.
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It's not right to state only the upper tier guns have the 'engine' to do it....or that you have to pay *a premium* for the science, just not right at all.
-Matt
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Matt, its a hobby to most… so there’s no right or wrong. We all roll with what we like…
The phrasing above? Simply florid eloquence over “his” choice. I understand your take that the same can be done for less coin.
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I’m saying it’s the path I eventually chose. Nobody has to do it. But if they want to, it’s gonna cost money. Is it worth it? Totally up to the individual and his wallet or credit card.
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I do agree that high end air rifles are expensive, but hey everything high end is. You really want to see expensive take a look at high end German or Italian shotguns, $20,000 is entry level. So $2500 for an air rifle is a bargain. That’s why I sold my beretta DT10 and now have a FX Impact.
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Matt, its a hobby to most… so there’s no right or wrong. We all roll with what we like…
+1 brother
-Matt
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Sure, I can agree with this sentiment being applied subjectively to you, and not objectively to all. It just feels like you were saying this is the *only* way *anyone* will achieve results similar to yours, to which I feel discredit those that achieve the same with less, which is by NO means an attempt to insult your performance achieved...just an attempt to clarify its not *necessary*.
-Matt
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I have had or do have high end guns and low end guns. I have a $500 avenge x in 177 that shoots really good but the stock is pure crap trigger is okay at best. Now when I had redwolfs the were night and day better from the accuracy and the build quality as they should have been for their price. To some that is worth it to others not as much. For me in some platforms the higher quality and price is worth. I'm a quality type guy, I'm willing to save longer for it. To each his own I will not judge anyone on what brings them joy in shooting as long as they keep doing it. It's what you value the most that matters.
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