Only target shooting, do you re-zero for shooting each distance?

[Stormin-Normin]

For instance I shoot only 25/50/100 yd targets? If I’m zeroed at 25 I end up with a mil-dot at 50 which I feel is problematic to my accuracy. does it hurt a scope to be adjusting all the time? Last question if anyone is reading this far... Do you find you have to adjust the zero every time you re-torque certain screws on the gun? In this case it’s a super accurate HW30S.

 

[dizzums]

generally i dont like to mess with a gun at all if i expect to pick it up and be able to hit say, a rat at 30, randomly 2 weeks out like i just did ... but yeah, if im farting around at 55-60 i'll click it into zero there, but if i leave it like that, that gun is pretty worthless for pesting until its rezeroed at its ideal spot ..

 

[Airgun-hobbyist]

Most modern scopes with target type of turrets are made to be adjusted all the time. If your scope lasts through the constant dialing, that's a good thing. If it does not, then eventually it will show itself and answer that question for you. Hopefully then it has a lifetime warranty.

If you find yourself re-torqing screws, threadlocker Loctite or Permatex low strength purple should be applied.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Each way but like you say if I looking to drill I zero on the distance . If just hitting then hold under or overs on a for will do .

 

[Struckat]

Most of my shooting is indoors 10m. From there, the ones that go pesting are usually 10-12 clicks down to get a zero that is near the beginning of the top of the arch.

i will usually take a couple shot to verif, but it gets me chippy close if I don’t have time for a test shot or two. Like my HW 30 at a 17ish yard zero. My HW95 @23 or so. It takes a litttle experimentin.

Clicking should not hurt your scope at all.

I check the stock screws on ithe HW30 once it a while, but the stock has set and its been a long time since they have loosened at all.

 

[Feinwerk]

Hello @Stormin-Normin ,

It depends on the quality of your scope. Lower to mid-range quality scopes have a stiction phenomenon where elevation and windage changes may not stabilize until there's been some vibration after a few shots. Higher end scopes that pass what is known as "the box test", are good to go without worry.

I prefer not to dial turrets and I have a range card that tells me what mil dot or fraction of mil dot hold over or hold under is required for every 5 yd range increment. This does not affect your accuracy unless you forget what the proper hold is for the distance. Maybe that's what you mean by changing your accuracy if you always want to use the center crosshair as your aim point. I do not shoot at the same ranges all the time so turret dialing is not my preferred method. Sometimes ranges change rapidly for me and I have memorized the Mildot/holdover/hold under for the most common ranges I shoot at.

And finally, if you have loose screws that are then tightened, yes your zero can change. With a spring gun like yours, the way you hold it has the most effect. You want to be gentle and consistent.

Cheers

Feinwerk

 

[Bedrock Bob]

I feel that clicking your scope to zero at various yardages is problematic unless you are target shooting at known ranges.

It deprives you of learning the trajectory of your rifle. The POI is always near the dot and you don't instinctively learn the arc of the pellet. If you use the dots to follow the POI down you learn your drop visually over a few thousand shots and have a very good idea where to aim with no clicking, dope cards or calculations. You just verify it by anchoring your POA in relation to a dot.

Guys who shoot duplex reticles and open sights learn the mystical flight of the pellet and aim accordingly. They adjust a bit if they miss the first shot. Guys who click or shoot off dots do exactly the same thing. If they toss one in the corn they adjust for their error. They just arrive at their initial POA (best guess) differently.

Shooting targets is a static affair. Knowing how many clicks to give it to get you close is an art and science in itself. Some guys are very efficient at it. For targets clicking to zero may be the best way to place your first shot. And first shots may often be closer.

Same with the dots. You don't really need a dot shooting 25-50 but it may help some guys with reference. It confuses me. I often line up on the wrong dot at long ranges. But that's how I shoot a rifle with a mil dot scope... using holdover as an aiming point and knowing where each yardage falls along the vertical crosshair.

I have a scope with target turrets and a wide adjustment range. I've never used those features. For me it makes more sense to estimate yardage with my naked eye, visualize the drop of the pellet in my mind and cross check that with a dot on the vertical crosshair. Then toss one out there and see how close it is. Then adjust a little if needed.

I'm a big believer in "feeling" them in there by visualizing the arc of the pellet. So I use one magnification (4-6x) and learn the arc instinctively. Some folks have brains that work with measurements and numbers and prefer following a mathematical arc by adjusting the scope. Both are a great way to place that first shot on a range transition. Both will get that first shot close.

That first shot may or may not go on the spot with either method. At that point you decide whether to make another scope adjustment or use a little Kentucky windage (or Wyoming elevation). If your clicking the scope you may as well zero it on the dot. Otherwise you just hold a little differently.

I shoot open sights a lot. With a peep you HAVE to click your elevation on transitions so you automatically learn to click on zero. Again it deprives you of learning the arc. You are effectively shooting off the crosshair with a peep sight. Transitions are slow and laborious. You can't shoot at 10 yards and then engage a target at 65 without cranking on the sights. Lots of guys that shoot peeps dial the turrets on a scope. That's how they learned elevation.

Open sights are great for instant range transitions. Like shooting off the dots in the scope. You just estimate range, visualize the arc of the pellet and aim accordingly. I think most guys who learned to shoot with open sights use the mill dots in the scope. It corresponds with the way they have learned to handle trajectory.

Shooting targets you have fewer transitions so lots of guys use peep sights and adjustable turrets. Plinking or hunting you will find very few guys using peep sights or clicking turrets because every shot is a range transition. IMHO it's much better to make your transitions instinctively rather than re adjusting your scope (or peep) every shot. That's probably because I learned to shoot instinctively with open sights in field conditions rather than at a bench at a target at a given range with a peep sight. Others may find it better to get that first shot close mathematically and go from there.

 

[stovepipe]

For instance I shoot only 25/50/100 yd targets? If I’m zeroed at 25 I end up with a mil-dot at 50 which I feel is problematic to my accuracy. does it hurt a scope to be adjusting all the time? Last question if anyone is reading this far... Do you find you have to adjust the zero every time you re-torque certain screws on the gun? In this case it’s a super accurate HW30S.

Because you have the time to zero for your targets and because you have a big fat sucky mil dot covering your small bulls-eye, then absolutely dial for the target to make use of the center of your reticle. If your scope becomes sloppy bad from all the dialing, then you have the perfect reason to get a different scope -- one that can take all the dialing and also has a reticle that is better suited for holdovers.

stovepipe

 

[Bedrock Bob]

All mil dot scopes don't have dots. Some just little hash marks.

I zoom my scope so my crosshairs ft the target dot. Or the mil dot is on the POI. There is more than one way to skin a cat with a zoomable second focal plane scope.

My first dot below the CH is on at 45 when I'm sighted at 25 and on 6x. It's on at 60 if I zoom up to 4x. So just creative zoom will give you more elevation and it changes the size of the reticle in relation to the dot.

If your dot is too big just use more zoom. If it's a little off your POI just adjust the zoom until it's perfect.

 

[Frank in Fairfield]

No

 

[Stormin-Normin]

I feel that clicking your scope to zero at various yardages is problematic unless you are target shooting at known ranges.

It deprives you of learning the trajectory of your rifle. The POI is always near the dot and you don't instinctively learn the arc of the pellet. If you use the dots to follow the POI down you learn your drop visually over a few thousand shots and have a very good idea where to aim with no clicking, dope cards or calculations. You just verify it by anchoring your POA in relation to a dot.

Guys who shoot duplex reticles and open sights learn the mystical flight of the pellet and aim accordingly. They adjust a bit if they miss the first shot. Guys who click or shoot off dots do exactly the same thing. If they toss one in the corn they adjust for their error. They just arrive at their initial POA (best guess) differently.

Shooting targets is a static affair. Knowing how many clicks to give it to get you close is an art and science in itself. Some guys are very efficient at it. For targets clicking to zero may be the best way to place your first shot. And first shots may often be closer.

Same with the dots. You don't really need a dot shooting 25-50 but it may help some guys with reference. It confuses me. I often line up on the wrong dot at long ranges. But that's how I shoot a rifle with a mil dot scope... using holdover as an aiming point and knowing where each yardage falls along the vertical crosshair.

I have a scope with target turrets and a wide adjustment range. I've never used those features. For me it makes more sense to estimate yardage with my naked eye, visualize the drop of the pellet in my mind and cross check that with a dot on the vertical crosshair. Then toss one out there and see how close it is. Then adjust a little if needed.

I'm a big believer in "feeling" them in there by visualizing the arc of the pellet. So I use one magnification (4-6x) and learn the arc instinctively. Some folks have brains that work with measurements and numbers and prefer following a mathematical arc by adjusting the scope. Both are a great way to place that first shot on a range transition. Both will get that first shot close.

That first shot may or may not go on the spot with either method. At that point you decide whether to make another scope adjustment or use a little Kentucky windage (or Wyoming elevation). If your clicking the scope you may as well zero it on the dot. Otherwise you just hold a little differently.

I shoot open sights a lot. With a peep you HAVE to click your elevation on transitions so you automatically learn to click on zero. Again it deprives you of learning the arc. You are effectively shooting off the crosshair with a peep sight. Transitions are slow and laborious. You can't shoot at 10 yards and then engage a target at 65 without cranking on the sights. Lots of guys that shoot peeps dial the turrets on a scope. That's how they learned elevation.

Open sights are great for instant range transitions. Like shooting off the dots in the scope. You just estimate range, visualize the arc of the pellet and aim accordingly. I think most guys who learned to shoot with open sights use the mill dots in the scope. It corresponds with the way they have learned to handle trajectory.

Shooting targets you have fewer transitions so lots of guys use peep sights and adjustable turrets. Plinking or hunting you will find very few guys using peep sights or clicking turrets because every shot is a range transition. IMHO it's much better to make your transitions instinctively rather than re adjusting your scope (or peep) every shot. That's probably because I learned to shoot instinctively with open sights in field conditions rather than at a bench at a target at a given range with a peep sight. Others may find it better to get that first shot close mathematically and go from there.

thanks for your post and comments. Completely makes sense. Where I live my range is 5 minutes away. I can shoot 3 static distances. 25,50,75 yards. That’s it, well 200 as well but I doubt I’d bother trying it with my HW30. I don’t hunt and seldom bother trying to get out of the city to plink. if I’m zeroed at 25 or 50 oddly enough my Hawke 4-12 ends up being a mil-dot dot at the other distance, which I find significantly covers the bullseye too much. That’s why I am interested to know if dialing the 34 clicks up or down to zero will hurt my scope.

 

[Stormin-Normin]

All mil dot scopes don't have dots. Some just little hash marks.

I zoom my scope so my crosshairs ft the target dot. Or the mil dot is on the POI. There is more than one way to skin a cat with a zoomable second focal plane scope.

My first dot below the CH is on at 45 when I'm sighted at 25 and on 6x. It's on at 60 if I zoom up to 4x. So just creative zoom will give you more elevation and it changes the size of the reticle in relation to the dot.

If your dot is too big just use more zoom. If it's a little off your POI just adjust the zoom until it's perfect.

Thanks, I’ll try that!

 

[Stormin-Normin]

Hello @Stormin-Normin ,

It depends on the quality of your scope. Lower to mid-range quality scopes have a stiction phenomenon where elevation and windage changes may not stabilize until there's been some vibration after a few shots. Higher end scopes that pass what is known as "the box test", are good to go without worry.

I prefer not to dial turrets and I have a range card that tells me what mil dot or fraction of mil dot hold over or hold under is required for every 5 yd range increment. This does not affect your accuracy unless you forget what the proper hold is for the distance. Maybe that's what you mean by changing your accuracy if you always want to use the center crosshair as your aim point. I do not shoot at the same ranges all the time so turret dialing is not my preferred method. Sometimes ranges change rapidly for me and I have memorized the Mildot/holdover/hold under for the most common ranges I shoot at.

And finally, if you have loose screws that are then tightened, yes your zero can change. With a spring gun like yours, the way you hold it has the most effect. You want to be gentle and consistent.

Cheers

Feinwerk

Hawke AIRMAX 4-12x40 AO. Thanks for commenting all my questions!

 

[Feinwerk]

@Stormin-Normin ,

@Bedrock Bob brings up a good point about zoom affecting the relative size of your mil dots/tic marks compared to your bullseye. I usually leave my scopes at a certain zoom level. Your scope is most likely a second focal plane (SFP) scope where the reticle pattern does not grow or shrink with changes in zoom. You can tell your type easily simply by changing the zoom and seeing if the size of the reticle changes. If not - SFP. If yes - FFP (First Focal Plane). There are a couple of things to keep in mind with these.

1) With a second focal plane (SFP) scope, when you increase magnification, your target looks larger but the reticle pattern does not. As pointed out, extra zoom might help you keep from covering up your bullseye with a round mil dot in your reticle.

2) With a second focal plane scope, increasing magnification will increase the number of mil dots (or tick marks, depending on your reticle's pattern) you need for holdover/hold under. For example, if at 4x zoom you need 1 mil dot of hold over, then when you change to 8x magnification, you will then need to use two mil dots. It's proportional. So if you were zeroed with one mil dot holdover at 4x, you would need to use two dots at 8x, and three dots at 12x.

When I make a range card, I have a few Crosman steel spinner targets (and a can of cheap, light colored spray paint) that I can set at 5 yd increments and experiment with the hold over until I know exactly how much is correct for each range and then write it down. I pick one zoom range to make my range card if I have a second focal plane (SFP) scope. Once I figure out which is the best holdover point for each 5-yard increment, I have completed my range card dope data for that magnification. If I change my zoom on the scope, all of my dope data will change. However, if you have a first focal plane (FFP) scope, getting more popular these days, the reticle magnifies in proportion to the view when you change the zoom so the dope data doesn't change with zoom magnification level.

Hope this helps, have fun shooting!

Feinwerk

 

[Hateful McNasty]

@Stormin-Normin ,

@Bedrock Bob brings up a good point about zoom affecting the relative size of your mil dots/tic marks compared to your bullseye. I usually leave my scopes at a certain zoom level. Your scope is most likely a second focal plane (SFP) scope where the reticle pattern does not grow or shrink with changes in zoom. You can tell your type easily simply by changing the zoom and seeing if the size of the reticle changes. If not - SFP. If yes - FFP (First Focal Plane). There are a couple of things to keep in mind with these.

1) With a second focal plane (SFP) scope, when you increase magnification, your target looks larger but the reticle pattern does not. As pointed out, extra zoom might help you keep from covering up your bullseye with a round mil dot in your reticle.

2) With a second focal plane scope, increasing magnification will increase the number of mil dots (or tick marks, depending on your reticle's pattern) you need for holdover/hold under. For example, if at 4x zoom you need 1 mil dot of hold over, then when you change to 8x magnification, you will then need to use two mil dots. It's proportional. So if you were zeroed with one mil dot holdover at 4x, you would need to use two dots at 8x, and three dots at 12x.

When I make a range card, I have a few Crosman steel spinner targets (and a can of cheap, light colored spray paint) that I can set at 5 yd increments and experiment with the hold over until I know exactly how much is correct for each range and then write it down. I pick one zoom range to make my range card if I have a second focal plane (SFP) scope. Once I figure out which is the best holdover point for each 5-yard increment, I have completed my range card dope data for that magnification. If I change my zoom on the scope, all of my dope data will change. However, if you have a first focal plane (FFP) scope, getting more popular these days, the reticle magnifies in proportion to the view when you change the zoom so the dope data doesn't change with zoom magnification level.

Hope this helps, have fun shooting!

Feinwerk

I set to a " fixed" power. I like 6 or 10x I mostly do 6x between 50y-10m.

Of course gun pellet combos at yardages could dictate a different power to use .

You get out there and shoot , shoot , shoot, and it will come around and you'll see it .. then your in the know

 

[Bedrock Bob]

thanks for your post and comments. Completely makes sense. Where I live my range is 5 minutes away. I can shoot 3 static distances. 25,50,75 yards. That’s it, well 200 as well but I doubt I’d bother trying it with my HW30. I don’t hunt and seldom bother trying to get out of the city to plink. if I’m zeroed at 25 or 50 oddly enough my Hawke 4-12 ends up being a mil-dot dot at the other distance, which I find significantly covers the bullseye too much. That’s why I am interested to know if dialing the 34 clicks up or down to zero will hurt my scope.

You won't have problems. The Airmax reticle is super fine. So fine it dissappear on a dark background. They are good scopes for paper. Not so great for hunting.

The reticle is fine and rather complex but for static distances and light colored backgrounds it's great. You'll be happy with it.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Since it hasn't been mentioned...

Rather than sizing the reticle to the aiming point why not just size your target ring?

I size my dots to the crosshair or mil dot rather than vice versa. And shooting a tiny dot is no problem if the target has rings to center the mil dot. Even if the mil dot covers your aiming point.

I made these targets to suit my scope at 25 and 50. The target with the big bull is for iron sights and the scope at 75.

I shoot at a fixed power and off the mil dots when holding over. A 25 yard zero puts the first dot on the Airmax (4x) at about 45-47 yards. If I was going to click elevation for 50 yards I'd take it up about 6 clicks and shoot off that second mil dot at a target with a ring that you could center the mil dot on. The second target is sized just a bit larger than the mil dots on the Airmax at 50 yards at 4x. It measures .70. The smaller targets have a dot that measures .45. The outside of the ring on the big bull is 1.25.

 

[Stormin-Normin]

@Stormin-Normin ,

@Bedrock Bob brings up a good point about zoom affecting the relative size of your mil dots/tic marks compared to your bullseye. I usually leave my scopes at a certain zoom level. Your scope is most likely a second focal plane (SFP) scope where the reticle pattern does not grow or shrink with changes in zoom. You can tell your type easily simply by changing the zoom and seeing if the size of the reticle changes. If not - SFP. If yes - FFP (First Focal Plane). There are a couple of things to keep in mind with these.

1) With a second focal plane (SFP) scope, when you increase magnification, your target looks larger but the reticle pattern does not. As pointed out, extra zoom might help you keep from covering up your bullseye with a round mil dot in your reticle.

2) With a second focal plane scope, increasing magnification will increase the number of mil dots (or tick marks, depending on your reticle's pattern) you need for holdover/hold under. For example, if at 4x zoom you need 1 mil dot of hold over, then when you change to 8x magnification, you will then need to use two mil dots. It's proportional. So if you were zeroed with one mil dot holdover at 4x, you would need to use two dots at 8x, and three dots at 12x.

When I make a range card, I have a few Crosman steel spinner targets (and a can of cheap, light colored spray paint) that I can set at 5 yd increments and experiment with the hold over until I know exactly how much is correct for each range and then write it down. I pick one zoom range to make my range card if I have a second focal plane (SFP) scope. Once I figure out which is the best holdover point for each 5-yard increment, I have completed my range card dope data for that magnification. If I change my zoom on the scope, all of my dope data will change. However, if you have a first focal plane (FFP) scope, getting more popular these days, the reticle magnifies in proportion to the view when you change the zoom so the dope data doesn't change with zoom magnification level.

Hope this helps, have fun shooting!

Feinwerk

Thanks for the tips and explanations. I’ll definitely make notes and because my range is fixed 25/50/100 it will be easier for me.

 

[Stormin-Normin]

Since it hasn't been mentioned...

Rather than sizing the reticle to the aiming point why not just size your target ring?

I size my dots to the crosshair or dot rather than vice versa. And shooting a tiny dot is no problem if the target has rings to center the mil dot. Even if the mil dot covers your aiming point.

I made these targets to suit my scope at 25 and 50. The target with the big bull is for iron sights and the scope at 75.

View attachment 511763

I shoot at a fixed power and off the mil dots when holding over. A 25 yard zero puts the first dot on the Airmax (4x) at about 45-47 yards. If I was going to click elevation for 50 yards I'd take it up about 6 clicks and shoot off that second mil dot at a target with a ring that you could center the mil dot on. The second target is sized just a bit larger than the mil dots on the Airmax at 50 yards at 4x. It measures .70. The smaller targets have a dot that measures .45. The outside of the ring on the big bull is 1.25.

Interesting solution worth considering!

 

[Tumblinginflight]

I would dial. Many people disregard it, but it is a skill and a science worth learning, understanding, and practicing. In the past is was acceptable for scope manufacturers to produce optics that did not track worth a darn, and “set it and forget it” was the name of the game. Fortunately as manufacturing and consumer standards have improved, largely so too has scope tracking.

I also suggest shooting grid targets if possible. It allows you to align the entire reticle to the grid, making precise alignment easier. A bonus is that it’s virtually unaffected by magnification, so you can use whatever you like. Note, I got somewhat close holding a phone, but my degree is not in photography! Hopefully you get the idea..