Air Venturi Opinions on a more accurate alternative to the AvengeX

[Ibex]

I bought my first PCP air rifle a while back. I decided to get the AvengeX in 0.177. I wanted something for target practice in the back yard that's extremely accurate. I shoot lead free only.

Well I've been messing with the AvengeX for a few months and put at least 1000 rounds through it, and I think I'm going to sell it and buy something else. The problem I have with it is this: I can get it dialed in and shoot at 10mm group at around 15 meters with H&N Baracuda green pellets, but inevitably I pull it out on another day and the zero is way off, sometimes as much as 4cm. I've also noticed that the zero shifts quite a bit if I shoot with a bipod, vs steadying the gun against a post.

After tinkering with the damn thing for many hours, I think the reason is how flexible the front barrel band area of the gun is. If you put *any* torque on the stock it twists the barrel band. As it twists it shifts the barrel. I've tried fixing it in various ways, including 3D printing a huge brace, but nothing has worked.

I generally shoot real ARs, and I just can't get over how finicky this gun is by comparison. I can store one of my ARs for a full year, and pull it out and the zero is still perfect. I would like to find an air rifle like that.

I've had other issues with it too. Pellets have a tendency to fall out of the mag. When they do they can easily fall backwards into the action, where they get mangled by the hammer. I've had to dissasemble the gun at least 3 times to get jammed pellets out of it.

Any recommendations? I would like to spend less than 1k, ideally in the 500-700 range. I'm considering the FX DRS but it's a bit pricey.

 

[napairgunner]

If you want to shoot lead free then you are best off with .25 either the 16.54 GTO or H&N 19.91 barracuda's .177 is way too light for lead free. In that price range you'll need something to dial down the power for lead free so a JTS Airacuda would work for you. My first choice would be a Royale 500 but that is out of your price range unless you can find a used one.

 

[PasadenaMike]

The gun chooses the ammo not the other way around

 

[markhooper]

airforce Condor or talon and the small top hat.. my Condor doesn't care what I feed it, but if you shoot lead free you are going to have to turn it down almost all the way.. who knows how many shots you can get since it has a large air tank..
so if I shoot mine,22 caliber and use 14 grain pellets,I need to at least turn the power all the way down, but ideally use two sizes smaller top hat.. for the heavy pellets 25 grain 2-4 on the power wheel with the factory top hat.
Mark

 

[Firewalker]

I don't suggest the JTS until all of the defects are resolved.

Yes, I've been harping on about barrel bands for a while, they telegraph movement through the air tube to the barrel. Other than removing them, there is no "fix".

 

[maxtrouble]

Why lead free? That greatly limits what you can do. A good pellet trap is easy to make.

 

[JaceSpace1369]

It's almost really hard to suggest a good pcp in 177 that's robust, without issues for that price point.

The only cheap .177 guns I've had have been hatsans, the AT44 and the flashpup and they are power houses. Even the flashpup can make close to 29pfe.

Now I think they're amazing playforms but their QC for when they made these was hit or miss and more miss than hit, in the sense that you ciuld get an oversized barrel and you'll need to send them the gun or barrel so they can replace it with a barrel that has to correct size for pellets and slugs. Their customer service has excelled in the last couple of years so that's a plus.

I had a .177 talonP I didn't really find anything it really liked to shoot that great.

Favorite 177 repeater has been the taipan .177.

Favorite 177 single shot has been the leshiy classic.

Favorite 177 slug gun is the FX impact.

I haven't tried the regulated Daystates in .177 but from what I hear they are amazing, same goes for HW100, so if you can find any of thsoe used. You should be good to go.

 

[Ibex]

Why lead free? That greatly limits what you can do. A good pellet trap is easy to make.

That's a good observation, but I have 2 toddlers who are always playing with the loose pellets around the target. Also I don't want to have to wash my hands every time I take the gun down to fire a few shots, worry about lead dust in the house, etc. In any case the ballistic accuracy seems ok. I think barrel deflection is the problem.

 

[Ibex]

airforce Condor or talon and the small top hat.. my Condor doesn't care what I feed it, but if you shoot lead free you are going to have to turn it down almost all the way.. who knows how many shots you can get since it has a large air tank..
so if I shoot mine,22 caliber and use 14 grain pellets,I need to at least turn the power all the way down, but ideally use two sizes smaller top hat.. for the heavy pellets 25 grain 2-4 on the power wheel with the factory top hat.
Mark

View attachment 508263

Man those airforce guns are sexy. It doesn't look like they're regulated. Hows the accuracy in your experience?

 

[Ibex]

Assuming I stick with lead free, and I'm doing only target shooting within 20m, is there a reason to consider .22? I get higher shot counts and the pellets are cheaper in 0.177. I have no problem chronoing my guns and adjusting until the velocity is in the 850-900 fps range.

 

[markhooper]

Man those airforce guns are sexy. It doesn't look like they're regulated. Hows the accuracy in your experience?

honestly I don't like the looks of them,I prefer traditional cowboy guns.. however at 30-50 yards the point of impact doesn't change..I don't know if I just got a lucky one or what but I've never shot a pellet gun that stacks pellets.. I can switch between 14&25 grain pellets and it's still the same.. turn up the power or down all the way and still same point of impact.. I've been shooting the SS until I get a Donny FL shogun today.. but even if you leave the power wheel and switch back to 14 grain pellets it's supersonic crack but still accurate..I don't like the crack so I always try to remember to adjust..I have been shooting from 3000-2000 and then refilled..I'm surprised I'm about half a tin of crossman on 3 fills.
mark

 

[markhooper]

Assuming I stick with lead free, and I'm doing only target shooting within 20m, is there a reason to consider .22? I get higher shot counts and the pellets are cheaper in 0.177. I have no problem chronoing my guns and adjusting until the velocity is in the 850-900 fps range.

only if you are shooting in the wind or varmint..if you are indoors and punching paper, might as well stick with the 177.. unless you are like me, old and hard to handle 177..
now a word of caution.. yes I had little ones too, but I don't believe everything that is said.. so it didn't matter lead or no lead..if be worried about them picking up the pellets and what gets picked up goes into the mouth.. I'm sure you are careful, but any soft metal can be leached into the body..no aluminum, copper or who knows what Teflon junk is in pans.. stainless steel and cast iron.. but it's totally up to you..I worry more about the plastic on foods than the lead..
Mark

 

[Trucker3573]

I am assuming you have a tube avenge x? Have you tried just removing the barrel band ? Like firewalker said about the air cylinder. I have read people determining on the original avenger that the flex and relaxing of the air tube from a full fill toward set regulator pressure ever so slightly moves the barrel by way of the barrel band causing poi shifts. I thought they had addressed this in the avenge x but who knows.
Rick Eutsler just posted a video today on the avenger bullpup 2 and it did the lovely avenger poi shift right on camera when the last mag of pellets mysteriously started shooting way right.

 

[Ibex]

I am assuming you have a tube avenge x? Have you tried just removing the barrel band ? Like firewalker said about the air cylinder. I have read people determining on the original avenger that the flex and relaxing of the air tube from a full fill toward set regulator pressure ever so slightly moves the barrel by way of the barrel band causing poi shifts. I thought they had addressed this in the avenge x but who knows.
Rick Eutsler just posted a video today on the avenger bullpup 2 and it did the lovely avenger poi shift right on camera when the last mag of pellets mysteriously started shooting way right.

Yeah I have the tube version with a synthetic non-bullpup stock. I believe they added o rings between the barrel band and the barrel and air tube on the AvengeX. I suppose that would prevent expansion of the air tube from pushing on the barrel, but it doesn't effect the twisting action I'm talking about. Might even make it worse.

I considered trying to free float the barrel, but I don't think the attachment between the barrel and receiver is rigid enough for that. The barrel is only held in by 2 set screws and the flats are big enough that it can slide in and out about 1mm. I've tried loctite and tightening the set screws as much as I dare, but they always loosen again within a couple of days. There's no provision for tensioning the barrel without major modifications.

 

[markhooper]

just wanted to mention that I got my order from Montana airguns today..I would have never heard of him except through this thread, I PM him and got his number.. he's got better prices than the competition and excellent customer service..best I have had since seems like all the Mom and Pop stores are not around much anymore..he is very good and I think we should support these small shops that have great service and prices..
Mark

 

[MMCM13]

If you look at the avenge x in wood stock, it is one piece, unlike the synthetic. Seems like it would be less likely for the wood stock to affect poa.

 

[bfloyd1095]

My experience with that gun.
Step 1
Change Caliber, go to a .22 or .25, the .177 barrel is caliber is WAY overpowered and will Never be consistent
Step 2
Once you change caliber, LEAVE the barrel band off the gun
Step 3
Get away from the lead-free pellets, as some have said the ammo chooses the gun, not ther other way around..

I have spent well over 200 hours with mine, been through the ringer, and in the end i have a Very good shooting Avenge x in both .22 and .25
So save your money, and for god's sake do not go down the AF rabbit hole , I know I will offend the "believers' but ta;k about frustration... The AF guns do one thing well, HUNT, that is what they are built to do, they are NOT target guns.

If you want to read what i went thropugh with my Avenge X see this thread I did

Air Venturi - Avenge X - Oh the Trials and Tribulations We've Had.....

Let's kick this off with a little background story. I purchased the Avenge X Tacitical, Tube Version, in .177 New a few months ago. The gun's purpose was to be as a loaner gun when friends and family come by so I did not have to sit like a " helicopter" hovering over them when they had one of...

www.airgunnation.com

 

[PumaCarl]

I won't address the caliber or lead free use, just the nature of airguns because you did a comparison to AR's and how rugged they are. You are not going to get a real gun rugged airgun at Avenge X prices. You are just not. But, with that being said, if you can manage to contain yourself, and be careful, the Avenge X is still the only sub-$600 airgun that has won a three card 100y match against FX's and Daystates. The gun itself, is about as accurate as you are going to get for the cheapies. If you want a firearm rugged airgun you are going to have to get an Edgun or an American Air Arms, they are rugged. Beyond even Taipan Veterans, which are also very rugged and better than most. Actually, the only thing on the Veteran that couldn't take the abuse of the Edgun or AAA is the shroud, but that is only at the extremes of abuse too. Bottom line is that the European/Russian airguns, AAA, and customs like Thomas, are all rugged but they don't come cheap. If you want rugged, save your pennies, buy used, and buy an airgun known for being rugged.

 

[MMCM13]

My observation would be that my S510 XTRA FAC in .22 from Air Arms is really accurate to 30 yds (haven’t tested it further than that) with the GTO non-lead pellets and has been anvil reliable since I bought it used in 2017.

 

[markhooper]

Yeah I have the tube version with a synthetic non-bullpup stock. I believe they added o rings between the barrel band and the barrel and air tube on the AvengeX. I suppose that would prevent expansion of the air tube from pushing on the barrel, but it doesn't effect the twisting action I'm talking about. Might even make it worse.

I considered trying to free float the barrel, but I don't think the attachment between the barrel and receiver is rigid enough for that. The barrel is only held in by 2 set screws and the flats are big enough that it can slide in and out about 1mm. I've tried loctite and tightening the set screws as much as I dare, but they always loosen again within a couple of days. There's no provision for tensioning the barrel without major modifications.

it's actually only a problem with a scope,I have a American tactical liberty nova 22, basically a avenger but it also has the hi,low transfer port.. and something that is rare on PCP airguns now.. open sights.. so even with the barrel flex and air tube movement it doesn't really matter because you have a front sight on the end of the barrel and it moves along with everything else.. probably the only way to get a avenger actually really accurate is see if firewalker can make you a heavier barrel to go inside the shroud and free float it .. I don't think the factory barrel is thick enough to not get harmonics without the shroud and spacers and you would also be surprised how much the shroud quiets it ..
another instance to compare, I had a rws Diana 34 break barrel, shot perfect with open sights.. put a scope on it and it was terrible..mind that was 35 years ago and it was a Springer rated scope and the one piece mount.. got a 48 side lever and it shot good,put the scope on it and it was even better.. so fixed barrel keeps everything aligned with the receiver..I think the brake barrel would be fine if the scope was mounted to the barrel instead of the action..
Mark