P1 .177 accuracy

[JohnnyPiston]

Yesterday I shot these two groups at 11 yards, seated in a patio chair with arms extended in front of me unsupported. I'll call this a "chair shooting" position. What's interesting is that I get better results this way vs. having my forearms rested on a bag.

Scope mag at 2x (lowest mag setting). POA was Sharpie marked dot. There was a mild to moderate cross breeze and it shows. 

I didn't think the H&N Excite Plinking pellets (which is an economy priced pellet) would group so accurately. Shots 1-4 were all in a very tight ragged hole with a height of about 2 pellet holes. Shot 5 wasn't consistent and I felt my wrist flick up, yup, shot went way high. I took a 6th shot to see if I could achieve a one hole 5 shot group and it wasn't the greatest, but close enough to the group. This group measured just under 1/2".

The RWS Basics grouped at 1/2". 

Now if only I could achieve these groups shooting standing, completely unsupported. Gotta keep shooting.

 

[MP44]

That is some good shooting, especially with a spring piston pistol. 

 

[Fuciliere]

Nice shooting JP, are you moving to pistol now? leaving your springer in the cabinet collecting dust.

 

[JohnnyPiston]

The rifles get shot as well, LOL. A guy can shoot both

 

[Steveoo]

Thats great shooting buddy. I decided to replicate what you did and found I cannot better you with my super tuned piece here but think i matched you. Thats 8 shots in that group, with the top 5 centred at 3/8 inch and 3 lower taking it to 5/8 inch.

I have found, like you, that resting arms can sometimes generate its own problems, the jump of the gun can increase with a springer when rested.

It can benefit someone with toy arms, who cannot hold the gun steady, but for someone with very strong shoulders that can hold the gun rock steady, you will not see the gain you might expect. Repeatable, 2 hand hold from strong arms is key. Over arm curls is a perfect exercise for the pistol marksman.

 

[JohnnyPiston]

Nice shooting buddy. That pistol of yours seems to have an interesting design. I've only seen your posts of it along with a brief description of it in Ron Robinson's pistol book.

Well, a couple days ago the spring broke on my Beeman P1 .177 Santa Rosa. I stripped it down and tuned it using an ARH Macarri spring. Restrained polish where needed. 

Still breaking it in but so far, so good.

 

[Steveoo]

The HW45 does have a very long mainspring, indeed its shared by the HW25 air rifle. It does mean it is prone to slight buckling.

You will notice in my grouping that i seem to have produced 2 distinct groups. The main group and the sub group. This is due to altering my position and hold slightly after tiring just a little bit from the first 5 shots.

 

[JohnnyPiston]

The HW45 does have a very long mainspring, indeed its shared by the HW25 air rifle. It does mean it is prone to slight buckling.

I should have snapped more pics while I had it apart for the tune but I was "in the zone". I did manage to take a couple pics. You can clearly see where the spring broke (one clear break) near the load bearing end. A pic of the new ARH spring next to it for reference. 

 

[Steveoo]

it just needs a little guide rod at the muzzle end to stop it canting over at its base and removing the length of that little guide from the main long guide...to allow it to fit. Do not be tempted by one of the plastic kits for it...it turns it a bit slack jawed without the weight in the piston.

We can have the guide half the size (allowing the introduction of muzzle end guide) without the half size guide (piston end) losing any of the required weight....simply by machining it from solid. Thats the key to a performance 45.

 

[mcoulter]

Very cool! I just bought a used P1 (circa 1997) and am loving it so far. 

(Subscribing to this thread!)

 

[Steveoo]

Just a thought JP....I would retain that broken mainspring. Just needs heating up cherry red, flattening and a polish. Perfect to use with an additional guide rod, should you choose to fit one. You usually having to remove a coil to allow for the extra rim of an additional guide.

I have been known to remove 2 coils when using piston weights in 45s and still achieve 550 fps or so..

 

[JohnnyPiston]

Steveoo, yes I'll hold on to the spring, "just in case".  

I was tempted to add some very thin polished anti-friction washers: one inside the piston and another in the load bearing end cap, but knowing how tight everything was I made a last minute decision to not use them. My thought was that if I could address the inside of the piston surface where the spring rotates against as well as the contact surface inside the end cap then that would be a good improvement without adding a single mm of preload. With the polished spring ends on the new ARH spring (and a touch of quality blended moly elixir) it felt much more refined without the 'scratchiness' of before and was nearly silent went spinning the spring against each surface. A conservative, safe approach for my first time inside the mighty P1

I have a short video I made now that I have about 400 pellets through it post tune, will share soon once it's uploaded. 

***Edit*** Video aforementioned is ready, link here: https://youtu.be/H6viVzgvvRo

 

[Steveoo]

Tuning advice aside ....at the end of the day its sometimes best to just get on and shoot like you are.....nice shooting.

 

[Steveoo]

3 more groups with the 53K

The 15 yd effort mildly effected by a medium cross wind to the left and just starting to lose the flat trajectory past my usual 12 yds max range. Pellets striking about 3/8 inch low and left but reasonable under less than great conditions off hand.

The 11 yd effort another attempt to match yours .. 5/8 inch group. Wind had picked up to high ...me just wanting to see how far my pellets were drifting from the aim point line.. striking approx 1/4 inch to the left ..

The small group shot at the C aim point when the wind had dropped....3/8 inch low at the 15 yds is replicated with one high shot for a 5/8 group....pleasing!

It makes me smile sometimes when do-gooders exclaim you cannot hunt with an air pistol. Provided you restrict your range to 8-12 yds, the pistol is producing 500 fps or so with 8 grainers ..and learnt to shoot. Most head, or neck shot rats at 8 paces, reveal clean through over penetration from my gun. Choose the right pistol and learn to shoot before commenting being my thoughts.

 

[Steveoo]

Ok just about the worst sketch you will ever see of a small rat/ mouse size target but clearly shows what can be done.

6th shot on top target hit low..i tend to tire of the concentration after a 5 shot group....wish i had left it as a 5 shot group. 4 perfect shots at lower target made me leave it at that before ruining the group. Gun is delivering 465 fps at point of impact, losing little of its velocity over the first 10 yards (about 50 fps or so) 

 

[JohnnyPiston]

Nice shooting man! Plenty of accuracy and lethal energy for rats/mice. At the distance you're shooting them I think wadcutters or even a lightweight hollow point would be ultra effective. Of course with your shot placement with the Falcons/AA they're down for good!

 

[JohnnyPiston]

Reached a new plateau yesterday with my trusty Beeman P1 .177 Santa Rosa:

5 shot group under .5", chair shot (chilling in a collapsible camping chair with arms extended, unsupported) at 11 yards. Mild breeze. Was having a chat with coffee between shots, basically a relaxing Saturday afternoon! 

All 5 shots, edge to edge completely covered with a dime.

C-T-C well under .5" 

P1, target and lucky chair

 

[Steveoo]

Damn it man you have moved onto cardboard boxes like me .....great shooting.

I have done lots of research on pellets. It was all driven by this gun....to get the best i possibly could out of it but I found a lot out in doing so.

I found Falcons and AA Express (pretty much the same pellet) retain more energy than any other pellet type. Usually we might expect pellets of greater mass to retain more energy (law of physics) but other effects are coming into play. They may have an optimum weight and maybe the profile bucks wind resistance better. I am not sure of the reason but its a fact. Both pellets also penetrate deeply. Accuracy is pretty much un matched under field conditions. They seem to buck wind best also..

The .22 version i did of this gun is a real rat cannon at 400 fps but does not have the flat trajectory this one has....flat 5yds to 15yds ...

 

[Steveoo]

The .22 version with original sights. 400 fps with most 14 Grain pellets ...It requires the original 4mm dia. TP, same kit i made for the above gun and special piston head. Barrel is a Walther barrel blank insert (well it had to be) 


I initially get a bit of a mauling for the sacrilege of modifying and shortening down barrels on what is a collectors piece ....that is until they pick it up and shoot it ...but I just do what i want to do regardless. Its how the gun should have looked and shot in my opinion.

 

[JohnnyPiston]

Here's a seated, arms extended and unsupported 5 shot group at 13 yards. There was a bit of a crossbreeze, but I didn't hold off for any wind; I just tried to hold steady on the black 1/2" Shoot N See sticker. 

.70" C-T-C. JSB RS 7.33 gn pellets, Bushnell handgun scope mag set at 3X

5 shot group on video for my fellow spring piston pistoleros:https://youtu.be/sJ3o6LrnfGg

Pics:

I know the mighty P1 is capable of better, so got to keep at it!