Panthera in 177?

weevil

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Dec 19, 2022
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I can’t find any info on the Panthera in a 600 or 700mm .177 config, aside from sub-12fpe. Has anyone tried it in “full beans” config? I assume that it uses a “heavy” liner, although in the case of the 177, I’m not sure what that means, because the standard and heavy 177 liners seem to both be 1:18 twist. I’m not too concerned about that because I’m at 5000ft elevation, where a 1:18 provides stabilization equivalent to a 1:15 at sea level. If I can find someone who’s shot 20+ grain slugs successfully, then I’ll take a chance on it in 600mm. Otherwise, I’ll get the boring old .22.
 
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Just my humble opinion, I always think of .177 as a springer caliber and the .22 as the minimum I'd want to use in a PCP.

Guess you could try a .177 Panthera but I don't know if it could "breathe" properly considering that the chassis is designed for the high end of the spectrum. Feel it would be like running an 8 cylinder engine on 3 sparkplugs.

Oh, just being honest, the .22 is my favorite caliber. ;)

Cheers and good luck!

QUESTION, what were you planning to use a .177 Panthera for? Just curious.
 
Just my humble opinion, I always think of .177 as a springer caliber and the .22 as the minimum I'd want to use in a PCP.

Guess you could try a .177 Panthera but I don't know if it could "breathe" properly considering that the chassis is designed for the high end of the spectrum. Feel it would be like running an 8 cylinder engine on 3 sparkplugs.

Oh, just being honest, the .22 is my favorite caliber. ;)

Cheers and good luck!

QUESTION, what were you planning to use a .177 Panthera for? Just curious.
Everything from crickets to pigs!
 
A Panthera in .17 cal shooting a heavy pill at high FPE woyld be a hunter's dream
Think that setup would result in all penetration and little energy transfer unless the slug expanded real fast.

Seen chipmunks run a good distance after a double-lung hit from my .177 HW100 FAC (925 fps) where the same hit from my .22 HW50 (575 fps) anchors them.
 
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Think that setup would result in all penetration and little energy transfer unless the slug expanded real fast.

Seen chipmunks run a good distance after a double-lung hit from my .177 HW100 FAC (925 fps) where the same hit from my .22 HW50 (575 fps) anchors them.


There definitely are applications where you want bigger caliber for more damage and situations for highest possible penetration on hard targets.
 
Think that setup would result in all penetration and little energy transfer unless the slug expanded real fast.

Seen chipmunks run a good distance after a double-lung hit from my .177 HW100 FAC (925 fps) where the same hit from my .22 HW50 (575 fps) anchors them.
Yeah, I'm strictly talking brain shots and more so on bigger critters,
 
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Well - I chickened out and got the 600mm .22. 🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓

Despite much searching and several calls, I couldn’t get solid information on the 177 liner. The consensus was that US models have a standard STX (rather than heavy) liner. I didn’t want to risk the possibility that the 20 grain slugs would not work. If it comes to light later that they do, or FX releases an appropriate line, I can always change it later. However, having played around for 3 hours with this 22, I am far from disappointed! Here’s a pic and I’ll follow with some initial impressions.
8ED2CBD6-792E-46CD-A0BC-FF14359C2A24.jpeg
 
First, as you can see in the pic, I’m currently using a prism sight - a Vortex Spitfire 5X. I was planning to use my Element Titan but I only have a 1 piece mount, which doesn’t work with the mag. Given that the first task was tuning, I elected for suboptimal optic over the fiddle of manual loading. Anyway, the Spitfire is plenty good out to 100y and that my max at home.

The only other addition is the Donny Tatsu. I alway use the Tatsu in 22, but it may prove insufficient above 55fpe.

The gun was store tuned to shoot 25g JSB pellets at 960fps with reg@120. I have a bunch of Javelin 218s and set about tuning it to shoot the 26 grain at 980. That’s about my max comfort level shooting at home given my backstops etc. I guesstimated 130 bar but that was a little low and found that 133 was needed to hit 980 on the knee (96.5%) of max speed. That equated to a hammer setting of 3.2, which I set up with the power wheel at max so that I could crank it down later to find sweet spots for pellets. I will say that the tuning is a breeze with just the one reg, which seems to be very solid in ES (~8fps!!!) and quick to recover between shots. Also, don’t miss dialing the valve adjuster, which is so finicky on my M3.

I set about zeroing at 30y and then 50y and it quickly became apparent that the reports on accuracy are well founded. At 50y, my duct seal target contained one 1/3 inch hole with a single chunk of lead inside. I then shot a group of 8 out to 100y and it was 1.3in Diam CTC. It was windy enough that I wouldn’t normally sight or test. Then there’s the scope and the fact that I was shooting from bags and new to the guns ergonomics. So, overall, I’m very pleased with that group and confident in the capability of the platform. The ergos are surprisingly good and the shot cycle is really nice with very little desire to move/recoil. Cocking mechanism is great but the trigger is not as nice as my M3. Stages not so well defined and the final pull seems heavier. I’ll take a shot at adjusting tonight.

My final day 1 experiments focused on different ammo. First the 23 grain Javelins, which shot at 980fps at power setting 19. Just as accurate as the 26 grain at 50y and conveniently, no change in POI on the prism scope (the chief downside of which is that clicks are 1Moa). Then, for plinking/yard pesting purposes, I tried the Hades pellets. I wasn’t too optimistic here because the gun is operating well into the hammer sensitive valve lock realm, at power level 9, giving 890fps. However, the ES was still <10 over a mag full and they also shot cloverleaf at 50y when the wind had slowed for the evening. The most pleasant surprise here though was the sound (or lack thereof). By some distance, the most stealthy 28fpe I’ve ever encountered!

So, overall, color me very impressed. Yes, it’s comically long, even in 600mm. It won’t leave the house - I don’t want to have to explain it’s oddity in public. But from the perspective of a tool, it’s great, with one final caveat: can I pick it up tomorrow morning and have it shoot the same POI with no dry firing or acclimatization shots? My M3 can’t do that cause it suffers from the valve oring stiction that cause the first few shots to have a significant reduction in fps. That’s no good for impromptu pesting. I haven’t seen that issue discussed with the Pantera but then again it didn’t come to light for a long time with the M3. I’ll be sure to let you know…
 
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Well - I chickened out and got the 600mm .22. 🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓

Despite much searching and several calls, I couldn’t get solid information on the 177 liner. The consensus was that US models have a standard STX (rather than heavy) liner. I didn’t want to risk the possibility that the 20 grain slugs would not work. If it comes to light later that they do, or FX releases an appropriate line, I can always change it later. However, having played around for 3 hours with this 22, I am far from disappointed! Here’s a pic and I’ll follow with some initial impressions.View attachment 349450

According to some EU members the new 177 heavy liners are still 1:18 which isn’t great, I’m looking for 1:11-1:12 twist rate.
 
First, as you can see in the pic, I’m currently using a prism sight - a Vortex Spitfire 5X. I was planning to use my Element Titan but I only have a 1 piece mount, which doesn’t work with the mag. Given that the first task was tuning, I elected for suboptimal optic over the fiddle of manual loading. Anyway, the Spitfire is plenty good out to 100y and that my max at home.

The only other addition is the Donny Tatsu. I alway use the Tatsu in 22, but it may prove insufficient above 55fpe.

The gun was store tuned to shoot 25g JSB pellets at 960fps with reg@120. I have a bunch of Javelin 218s and set about tuning it to shoot the 26 grain at 980. That’s about my max comfort level shooting at home given my backstops etc. I guesstimated 130 bar but that was a little low and found that 133 was needed to hit 980 on the knee (96.5%) of max speed. That equated to a hammer setting of 3.2, which I set up with the power wheel at max so that I could crank it down later to find sweet spots for pellets. I will say that the tuning is a breeze with just the one reg, which seems to be very solid in ES (~8fps!!!) and quick to recover between shots. Also, don’t miss dialing the valve adjuster, which is so finicky on my M3.

I set about zeroing at 30y and then 50y and it quickly became apparent that the reports on accuracy are well founded. At 50y, my duct seal target contained one 1/3 inch hole with a single chunk of lead inside. I then shot a group of 8 out to 100y and it was 1.3in Diam CTC. It was windy enough that I wouldn’t normally sight or test. Then there’s the scope and the fact that I was shooting from bags and new to the guns ergonomics. So, overall, I’m very pleased with that group and confident in the capability of the platform. The ergos are surprisingly good and the shot cycle is really nice with very little desire to move/recoil. Cocking mechanism is great but the trigger is not as nice as my M3. Stages not so well defined and the final pull seems heavier. I’ll take a shot at adjusting tonight.

My final day 1 experiments focused on different ammo. First the 23 grain Javelins, which shot at 980fps at power setting 19. Just as accurate as the 26 grain at 50y and conveniently, no change in POI on the prism scope (the chief downside of which is that clicks are 1Moa). Then, for plinking/yard pesting purposes, I tried the Hades pellets. I wasn’t too optimistic here because the gun is operating well into the hammer sensitive valve lock realm, at power level 9, giving 890fps. However, the ES was still <10 over a mag full and they also shot cloverleaf at 50y when the wind had slowed for the evening. The most pleasant surprise here though was the sound (or lack thereof). By some distance, the most stealthy 28fpe I’ve ever encountered!

So, overall, color me very impressed. Yes, it’s comically long, even in 600mm. It won’t leave the house - I don’t want to have to explain it’s oddity in public. But from the perspective of a tool, it’s great, with one final caveat: can I pick it up tomorrow morning and have it shoot the same POI with no dry firing or acclimatization shots? My M3 can’t do that cause it suffers from the valve oring stiction that cause the first few shots to have a significant reduction in fps. That’s no good for impromptu pesting. I haven’t seen that issue discussed with the Pantera but then again it didn’t come to light for a long time with the M3. I’ll be sure to let you know…
Thanks for the details on your Panthera setup and results. I'm just in the process of tuning mine (weather permitting).

Yes, it's the tallest in the safe but I don't find my .22/700 Panthera to be overly long, it's only about 100 mm longer than my AA S510. Guess that it's what you're used to, I shoot a 60 inch longbow so "long" is relative :)


I was thinking about tuning for JSB 25g pellets (have a 700mm pellet liner), pleasantly surprised to hear that Hades are shooting that well.

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the details on your Panthera setup and results. I'm just in the process of tuning mine (weather permitting).

Yes, it's the tallest in the safe but I don't find my .22/700 Panthera to be overly long, it's only about 100 mm longer than my AA S510. Guess that it's what you're used to, I shoot a 60 inch longbow so "long" is relative :)


I was thinking about tuning for JSB 25g pellets (have a 700mm pellet liner), pleasantly surprised to hear that Hades are shooting that well.

Cheers!
I can’t imagine that it would be any more accurate with a pellet liner. I got my Titan installed today with some eagle vision rings and shot the Hades to get it sighted in. They were stacking at 50y in the stock slug liner and again, so spookily quiet!

I’m also happy to report that the gun was on the same POI after sitting overnight. There seemed to be a 3-4bar reg creep but it didn’t affect the shots. Of course, the reg may just need to settle in so I’m not going to make any adjustments for now.
 
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According to some EU members the new 177 heavy liners are still 1:18 which isn’t great, I’m looking for 1:11-1:12 twist rate.
Thanks for chiming in on the liner - matches what I heard. What’s the calculus that leads to the prediction for 1:11/12? I seem to recall that Rallyshark uses a 1:14 to shoot 23 grain 177 at sea level.
 
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Thanks for chiming in on the liner - matches what I heard. What’s the calculus that leads to the prediction for 1:11/12? I seem to recall that Rallyshark uses a 1:14 to shoot 23 grain 177 at sea level.

So the goal is to get to stability factor of 1.5 or higher at sea level, preferably closer to 2.0. I used Berger’s twist rate calculator and NSA 20 grain slug length to come up with the twist rate of 1:14 for about 1.5 stability factor, 1:12 to get close to 2, don’t remember exact numbers but around the at ball park.