Paypal No Longer Safe for Selling Airguns (Scammers Have Won)

[Smok3y]

This really sucks man. Sorry to hear that.

One thing we have seen over the years on this forum is that “Goods and Services” doesn’t do a good job of protecting either buyer or seller, so it feels like a waste to pay the fee. Feels like F&F is just as good, and be picky about who you use it with.

Another note… CC directly doesn’t offer seller protection, but buyer protection as well.

 

[muradtexas]

@kaylaindy
I would still file the claim with UPS. UPS has basically done away with their Security department. they figure it is cheaper to pay all claims rather then keep a department fo people on the payroll. No one to laugh at you since there's no one there.
Be persistant with the claim..you'll get it back
Mike

This....whether it is their fault or not, if there is a chance to pit the scammer against a giant corporation (he did that to you), it's worth trying. If UPS delivered, and he says they didn't, it's between him and UPS.

 

[MrP]

This is pretty twisted..lol. The type of thought process criminals use to justify theft in the first place. How dare that large corp make too much money. They are victimizing the consumers so they deserve to get it stuck to themselves once in awhile. Single biggest benefactor…isn’t that the point of going into business??

No i'm just saying if it takes a lawsuit to pursue somebody due to one of the institutions not being able to confirm deliveries, better that the institution handle that lawsuit than some guy selling a used airgun. I guess you could find a way to see that as twisted if you wanted to

 

[muradtexas]

This is pretty twisted..lol. The type of thought process criminals use to justify theft in the first place. How dare that large corp make too much money. They are victimizing the consumers so they deserve to get it stuck to themselves once in awhile. Single biggest benefactor…isn’t that the point of going into business??

I don't think he meant it as a "you're making too much money, so you deserve it" kinda way. I think it's more along the lines of "with great power comes great responsibility".

 

[Hold_Over]

Seems like every other day there is a scam post or problems with a payment service recently. Sad state of affairs
Just to play devils advocate. I understand the desire to not do business on here through the classifieds with someone of no reputation, especially on a transaction of $3500. Out of curiousity how does someone establish a reputation if no one will do business with them until they have one? Fortunately for me all my transactions here with fellow members have been pleasant and easy to date.

 

[GeneT]

Paypal burned me many years ago, to the tune of only a couple hundred bucks. I would never voluntarily use them again.

Interestingly, I have tried to cancel my Paypal account but "for my safety" they now want my birthdate before I can log in. Given that they've never had it, this is not a security question, and I have not answered. Fortunately my PP account is/was linked to a bank account that I haven't had in ~20 years...

As a buyer, I've asked sellers if they'd accept a money order, and most will - assuming the wait to receive it. I don't mind the wait if it keeps the money out of PP. Oh, and I don't buy from "never been seen before" sellers. Had a few good transactions from AGN, never been burned by a long-time member.

GsT

 

[ThomasT]

It has already been mentioned here one time, but if you are the seller simply request that the buyer send you a copy of his Drivers License to "confirm" his correct ship to address.

On two different occasions I did not feel real good about a buyer and I requested that he email me a copy of his Drivers License and never heard back from them. That answered my question about them and I did not get scammed.

ThomasT

 

[rcs9250]

This is pretty twisted..lol. The type of thought process criminals use to justify theft in the first place. How dare that large corp make too much money. They are victimizing the consumers so they deserve to get it stuck to themselves once in awhile. Single biggest benefactor…isn’t that the point of going into business??

No i'm just saying if it takes a lawsuit to pursue somebody due to one of the institutions not being able to confirm deliveries, better that the institution handle that lawsuit than some guy selling a used airgun. I guess you could find a way to see that as twisted if you wanted to

Ha ha. A lawsuit, getting another industry of criminals involved.
No offense to any honest attorney’s.

 

[rcs9250]

I feel sorry for people on this site that want to sell something, like a rifle, and have zero feedback with respect to a good seller. It’s a real leap of faith for the buyer.
Craigslist is the absolute worst for criminal buyers. Anything worth a couple hundred dollars is going to get a scammer to contact you, even pay above asking price to ship to somewhere in Africa. I always request payment in gold buliion. Never hear from them again. And I advise him graphically what I think of his mother and father.
There was a movie one tome…

 

[muradtexas]

Seems like every other day there is a scam post or problems with a payment service recently. Sad state of affairs
Just to play devils advocate. I understand the desire to not do business on here through the classifieds with someone of no reputation, especially on a transaction of $3500. Out of curiousity how does someone establish a reputation if no one will do business with them until they have one? Fortunately for me all my transactions here with fellow members have been pleasant and easy to date.

As a new member involved in several sales and trades right now, I simply offer to ship first. They have a reputation, I don't; I have a reason to trust them, they don't. So, if the transactions are small enough, I'll risk taking the L. Kinda doubt they'd conduct 20 legit transactions just to scam me out of a tin of pellets, you know?

 

[Airgun Al]

Guys, Thanks the sympathy. I didn't actully get stuck for the $3500. I did loose my Paypal account but I got the $3500 initially, spent it on stuff, and now Paypal says I owe them $3500, which they won't get. Fortunately I don't worry about my credit score so it's all good to me. I'm a little sad to loose my Paypal account, but it's for the best I'm sure. I have been taking credit cards through Square for over 10 years for my Junk Removal business. I'll probably try that.

Mainly though:I will only sell to established AGN members with a track record!

When Paypal says there is a dispute, just know that you will loose no matter what. You will have about 1-2 months to change your bank account number and cancle any credit/debit cards attatched to your Paypal account, while the dispute gets processed through. Then Paypal will get stuck with the bill, not you. You will loose your Paypal account.

Be careful with Square, as the same exact thing can happen.
I sold some expensive motorcycle parts, shipped them, and had tracking number to prove that it was delivered.
The buyer performed a "charge-back" with his credit card company, saying they never received the shipment, even though I had USPS tracking proof.
The credit card company sided with THEIR customer, and I was out $400.
The customer even told me it was a mistake, but would never settle up with me.
SQUARE is no different!

 

[Airgun Al]

Hello again,

I have set up a small website and connected with Square and now I can accept credit cards. I have sold quite a bit of my air gun stuff and it works perfect for both myself as the "seller" and protection and security for the "buyer".

ThomasT

Same thing can happen with Square.. See my post just prior to this one.

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

Ha ha. A lawsuit, getting another industry of criminals involved.
No offense to any honest attorney’s.

What do you call a Lawyer with an IQ over 10? "Your Honor".

 

[Vetmx]

Who was scamming who? A $3,500 used Evanix? Either way I do know Kay has sold a ton of guns so even if he was being reckless or desperate by taking a chance on an unknown buyer, he was at least trying to protect himself. Or so he thought. And that’s what is disturbing. Random dudes on this forum, you are definitely SOL as far as I’m concerned. If you don’t have a long history on here, I’m not doing business with you.

 

[cavedweller]

Scammers like Joeseph don't face criminal charges. I could find him if I wanted but it would take far more than $3500 in effort and time. That's the same thing law enforcement will say. If there was a chance of getting busted Joseph would not be doing it.

Also UPS delivered the package to a Guy named Joseph X and he signed his name. What are they supposed to do? I wouldn't even bother filing an insurance claim. They would laugh at me.

Paypal will eventually face a class action law suit or loose alot of business. I was a 20 year customer selling tons of stuff, they just lost another 20 years of business from me. They can stick the seller with the bill, but they can't say "Eligeble for Seller Protection" at the same time. No matter what the fine print says, you can sue them and be awarded your settlement plus Punitive damages which is where the court punishes the defendant with a monetary fine in an amount that will "hurt a bit".

Did you file a police report? With serial number and pictures etc…?

 

[Nomadic Pirate 66]

For a long time now I only was buying from long time members that I've seen contributing on forums for a decent amount of time.

As for selling ?......well I would sell to anyone but I only took USPS Money orders, personal checks and cashier/bank checks waited for them to clear and then ship the gun,
many don't go for that and that's OK I have a 2 decade reputation of selling guns so I would just wait for that one that would go for my terms,......patience and it all comes together eventually.

 

[Mike_OH]

Guys, Thanks the sympathy. I didn't actully get stuck for the $3500. I did loose my Paypal account but I got the $3500 initially, spent it on stuff, and now Paypal says I owe them $3500, which they won't get. Fortunately I don't worry about my credit score so it's all good to me. I'm a little sad to loose my Paypal account, but it's for the best I'm sure. I have been taking credit cards through Square for over 10 years for my Junk Removal business. I'll probably try that.

Mainly though:I will only sell to established AGN members with a track record!

When Paypal says there is a dispute, just know that you will loose no matter what. You will have about 1-2 months to change your bank account number and cancle any credit/debit cards attatched to your Paypal account, while the dispute gets processed through. Then Paypal will get stuck with the bill, not you. You will loose your Paypal account.

Year or two ago when I heard PayPal had cash flow problems I tried to get my funds transferred out to my bank but the transaction always ended in ‘internal error’. So I figured they wouldn’t block sales so I bought stuff I needed and zeroed my account that way End of PayPal for me. I’m glad you were able to get your money out.

 

[erock]

Well yeah..if he did friends and family or you put down that it was an airgun. The vast majority of us all know that paypal isn't firearm friendly, or anything with "gun" in it.

There are other things you can do rather than whine about paypal to get your funds.

Not likely. PayPal is anything BUT your pal. They shut down my account permanently, without notice, in the middle of an air rifle transaction because of their firearms policy. All funds were locked down for 6mos. In the meantime, the buyer closed his fake bank account, got my rifle for FREE, and ABSOLUTELY NOBODY at PayPal would give me any explanations or updates, nor any avenue to challenge or dispute their position. Ever !! You CANNOT speak to any human that was involved in their decisions. Too bad. So sad. That's where they left me......

 

[ChickenDumpling]

I know its not required, but I'll have some great transactions and even pms regarding such on AN. But NO feedback given even though I did leave feedback. I noticed this more with AN members with HIGHer feedback not returning the favor. Members with low feedback have been more likely to return the feedback. Maybe some of the long time members figure short time members aren't worth the feedback in some manner? Feedback helps the community, please do so for + or - .

 

[Chief Ten-Beers]

I know its not required, but I'll have some great transactions and even pms regarding such on AN. But NO feedback given even though I did leave feedback. I noticed this more with AN members with HIGHer feedback not returning the favor. Members with low feedback have been more likely to return the feedback. Maybe some of the long time members figure short time members aren't worth the feedback in some manner? Feedback helps the community, please do so for + or - .

How do you do a Feedback? I PM'd the Seller and thanked Him for what I purchased, but where is the "feedback" button? lol