N/A PCP Hammerless system

[weevil]

Thought I'd add something interesting on how the Huben closing valve works, and it is in contrast to the Sidewinder, which despite their similarities does not behave the same way . . .

On the Huben, for a given functional setting of the closing valve (meaning something usable between either fully open of fully closed) the amount of air released on the shot is a direct function of the resistance that the projectile provides to the air flow. This is very different than a normal valve.

I have mine set to shoot 18.1 grain pellets at about 920 fps. At the same setting, it will shoot 15.9 grain Hades pellets right about the same speed - indicating it is using less air per shot with the lighter pellets. And if I dry fire it with no pellets in the mag, it functions fine but releases very little air at all - much less than on a full shot. And at the other extreme is when the gun jams, which it has done when I tried to shoot slugs that were loose in the mag - with the slug blocking the airflow path, the closing valve does not close for a long time, and the gun can dump the reservoir on one shot. I understand how this happens as the closing valve requires a drop in air pressure in order to close - drop the pressure faster and the valve closes faster and vice versa.

The Sidewinder does not behave this way - when dry fired it lets out pretty much a full blast of air as it would with a pellet in the mag, and lighter pellets go much faster at a given setting. I have not had it apart, nor have I seen any kind of parts diagram, so I don't know what the difference is but it sure behaves differently when shot.

One of the other great things about this design is how the magazine advances - the actuator is basically a sealed piston. When the shot happens and pressure drops in the firing chamber, a spring overcomes the lower pressure pushing the piston forward, and then when the chamber represurizes after the shot, the piston returns against the spring and that advances the magazine via an internal gear. No wasted air . . .

In essence, the valve acts as a secondary regulator. This is what I really like about the pistol. Despite lacking a conventional regulator, it will shoot a string from 320>180bar with an ES that is akin to a regulated gun.

However, it’s not all wine and roses with this system. The shock induced by mag rotation is hard on pellets, as is being blown from the mag into the barrel. As I’ve posted many times, I find that the hard alloy GTO pellets provide the best accuracy but they are lightweight and costly. Correctly sized slugs can be great but the twist rate of the barrel is relatively slow…

 

[Pale_Rider]

Thought I'd add something interesting on how the Huben closing valve works, and it is in contrast to the Sidewinder, which despite their similarities does not behave the same way . . .

On the Huben, for a given functional setting of the closing valve (meaning something usable between either fully open of fully closed) the amount of air released on the shot is a direct function of the resistance that the projectile provides to the air flow. This is very different than a normal valve.

I have mine set to shoot 18.1 grain pellets at about 920 fps. At the same setting, it will shoot 15.9 grain Hades pellets right about the same speed - indicating it is using less air per shot with the lighter pellets. And if I dry fire it with no pellets in the mag, it functions fine but releases very little air at all - much less than on a full shot. And at the other extreme is when the gun jams, which it has done when I tried to shoot slugs that were loose in the mag - with the slug blocking the airflow path, the closing valve does not close for a long time, and the gun can dump the reservoir on one shot. I understand how this happens as the closing valve requires a drop in air pressure in order to close - drop the pressure faster and the valve closes faster and vice versa.

The Sidewinder does not behave this way - when dry fired it lets out pretty much a full blast of air as it would with a pellet in the mag, and lighter pellets go much faster at a given setting. I have not had it apart, nor have I seen any kind of parts diagram, so I don't know what the difference is but it sure behaves differently when shot.

One of the other great things about this design is how the magazine advances - the actuator is basically a sealed piston. When the shot happens and pressure drops in the firing chamber, a spring overcomes the lower pressure pushing the piston forward, and then when the chamber represurizes after the shot, the piston returns against the spring and that advances the magazine via an internal gear. No wasted air . . . brilliant!

A heavier projectile contributes to the closing valve staying open longer but it is not a direct function. The direct function is the spring you see on the metal stem of the closing valve. Depending on the tension the spring is set determines the amount of air to be released. Projectile weight being a secondary factor.

The reason why the sidewinder has a much bigger blast is their opening valve(dump valve) has 3 times the volume of air.

 

[Emu]

......

The reason why the sidewinder has a much bigger blast is their opening valve(dump valve) has 3 times the volume of air.

This mean less air efficiency or more power?

 

[Pale_Rider]

Lol even with the video I'm confused how it works! I've never really been interested in semi auto but gotta say Huben definitely seems the best over all system.

Took me a while to understand it lol. This video helped a lot

 

[Pale_Rider]

This mean less air efficiency or more power?

I can’t say for sure I haven’t shot a sidewinder. But I would assume more power. From the manufacturer recommendation to not adjust the regulator you won’t be able to find out if it can be more powerful. With the huben reg you can crank it up as high as you want all the way to being unregulated.

 

[dnovo]

I fail to understand the criticism of the fixed magazine system of the Huben. It’s no different than than the loading system of the single action revolver going back to the 1840’s and just as easy to master. Speed? No slower than stopping to load pellets into a loose magazine and then load the mag into your gun. I guess some folks just like to criticize anything outside the norm regardless of whether their criticism makes sense. David

 

[ctshooter]

I fail to understand the criticism of the fixed magazine system of the Huben. It’s no different than than the loading system of the single action revolver going back to the 1840’s and just as easy to master. Speed? No slower than stopping to load pellets into a loose magazine and then load the mag into your gun. I guess some folks just like to criticize anything outside the norm regardless of whether their criticism makes sense. David

What's your point really. You're entitled to have your opinion, but why chastise others for having a different viewpoint. It just makes you look closed minded.

The solution to your argument is to simply own multiple mags and then you can switch quickly.

You've provided nothing to this thread - which has everything to do about the hammerless system and nothing to do with the mag.

 

[dnovo]

Actually, AlanMcD made a comment about the magazine earlier today so I question your comment but I do stand rebuked by the thread police. Feel better? David

 

[csdilligaf]

Since I've never had or shot one of these hammerless guns my question is about Extreme Spread. Accuracy is all that matters to me and if the ES is 10 or more I loose interest. What are these designs capable of? A Thomas bench rest gun is probably the best for ES. There was a Ted Holdover video with the FX Panthera just repeated mag after mag. Maybe I'm picky or expect a lot I'm not sure