N/A PCP to Springer Recommendations

[Peepskp]

Hello Everyone,

I am planning to sell my FX Dreamline GRS w/ Falcon x50FT scope and accessories to purchase a more traditional springer type air rifle. The reason for selling is just due to the PCP platform in general requiring more gizmos and gadgets to use and use well. Firstly, I am looking for something that has enough power to kill woodchuck sized animals/pests pretty easily. Secondly, something accurate and fun to shoot in my backyard at targets, etc. I live on 3 acres with plenty of room to shoot up to 100 yards or so, although I would not be shooting pest further than 40 yards I'm sure. I do not have a strong preference on caliber but have plenty of .22 pellets..

I have looked at many options in the past and did my research but have been out of the hobby for about a year and don't know what is new in this category so figured this is a good place to start. I also need 10 posts before I can sell my PCP so I might as well get crackin. I have considered the Diana Airking 54, Hatsan 135, TX200, and Weihrauch's various offerings. I will likely get a fixed or lower variable mag scope that excels in target acquisition for hunting purposes.

Thanks for any insight!

 

[boscoebrea]

Woodchucks need the power to kill right now. So you need an over 16# unless you are close and get a killing shot, many springers can do this,I like the RWS 48,52 and 54 models for that range, you can not be overpowered, you use a heavy pellet and you do not want .177 you want .22..My English Tomahawk is another great springer for that... some gas rams are also great. Springers are harder to shoot, no biggy; a 7x scope would work.
There are other options, people here are great for insightful information.

 

[KitCarson16]

Thanks for the replies already! I am afraid if I get something in the sub 12fpe category I will eventually want something more powerful. I really don't have a great grasp of how much power is necessary and at what point accuracy suffers. For instance, regarding .22 cal, I remember people saying that 800-900 FPS was the sweet spot for accuracy. Any thoughts on this and what the sweet spot would be for .22 or .25?

If I were you I would hang unto that PCP, until you find out if you even like a springer. I love them, however it does take lots of practice , knowledge, and study of ballistic charts to get good with one. So hang unto that Dreamline as it is an excellent PCP.

800 to 900 FPS is ideal speed for most guns and most pellets, however this number is from the PCP world, very, very, very few springers will reach these speeds .

14 to 16 foot pounds of energy is plenty to take all small game and with well placed head shots even coyotes, foxes and so on. And this is the common power range for most Springers. All quality springers will be around 14 to 15 fpe more or less. Somewhere close.

So what to try?? First off I am not a Gamo snob, I have more than a few of them and like them, however it takes experience to shoot them and a magnum gamo shooting a pellet at 1050 fps and gaining 32 fpe is great, however it is not a gun for a beginner. You need perfect trigger control gained over many shots .

My recommendation is the HW95 in .22. I would also recommend you research No Lead Pellets and leave all the Urban Myths and Legends on the pages of forums. Chuckle.
My favorite HW95 has a Vortex Steel tune kit in it and shooting the GTO 11.75 no lead pellet I get 860 fps in South Carolina and 18 to 19 foot pounds of energy and on a good day accuracy at 50 yards is around 3/8 inches.

Your springer regardless of what you do chose will require you much more so than a PCP to sight in at a given distance and use chairgun and make yourself a shot card, laminate it and carry it around your neck with your rangefinder and pellet holder. This way you will get used to all the holdovers at various ranges and eventually not need the training aid.

Yep hang unto that dreamline for a bit, make sure you like a springer . And I forgot an important thing, the HW95 is light enough to carry around all day where as lots of others are not, the HW97, the TX200, the Diana 48 and similar rifles all weight on average 12 pounds.........want to lug that around all day, are you sure.

Cheers
Kit

 

[Just Zack 2]

Recommendation for only one springer? They tend to multiply rather quickly if not kept in check...

 

[EquivalentDelta]

I’ll throw out my recommendation for an HW97k. They are near enough competition worthy guns out of the box. They like a light hold in my experience.

In .22, with 5.52 or larger head pellets, you should put down 3 moa at the absolute most. That 3 moa gets you to 33 yards on a 1” target, and that’s the absolute worst case. You’ll most likely find a pellet that the gun likes to put down 1-2moa groups. That gets you to 50 yards on a 1” kill no problem.

If you don’t mind to tinker, want more power, and don’t care so much about fit and finish, get a Diana. The 48 is as accurate as a HW, if you can get the accuracy out of it. The 52 and 54 are probably more accurate than any spring gun on the market. But in my experience, Diana fit and finish is a pretty real step down from HW.

That and my first Diana 48 tried to eat my fingers when the cocking arm sheared off the receiver mid-cocking stroke.

 

[Peepskp]

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I was not anticipating so much great information to be honest! I have been thinking more and more about the springer and I like the idea of something that does not need any tinkering and also something I can shoot without a scope. Something with built in sights. This will provide a much lighter setup that I can trust will work when needed. Thinking back to the woodchucks /pests I have shot in the past, all have been within 30 yards. I am not sure the scope is that important at that range. I am fine spending more to have someone tune the gun so it is in its best form as well. Again, I appreciate any feedback or recommendations on rifles or people who could tune the rifle for me. The hw95, hw77 are intriguing but not sure if they have enough power based on some of your commentary, although a few of you may disagree. The Diana 54, 350 etc have enough power but may need pro setup to be more reliable? Does anyone do great work on the 54’s that I could reach out to? Lastly, I forgot to mention I did own a RWS rifle a few years back that I ended up selling and the fit and finish was good enough for me.

 

[Bear-of-Grayling]

I have the HW95, 98 & 97. All in 22 caliber. Fantastic guns but not enough power to kill a Woodchuck humanly. IMHO. I also have a Hatsan 135 .25 caliber that I recently converted back to a spring from the ram. I ran it through the chronograph yesterday. With 20 grain H&N lead pellets it was running at 825 fps. Over 30 ft lbs. It’s accurate also. Not the quality of a Weihrauch but decent for its price range. The trigger is also a four lever and can be safely tuned/adjusted to a couple pounds.

 

[crowski]

I have the 48, 54 and 350 and the others. I have never opened them. They are deadly accurate and capable of toasting a Chuck. Nothing matches the accuracy and power of these Dianas in my arsenal. Not my favorite plinkers. But worthy. Good luck. Crow

 

[c_m_shooter]

Thanks for the replies already! I am afraid if I get something in the sub 12fpe category I will eventually want something more powerful. I really don't have a great grasp of how much power is necessary and at what point accuracy suffers. For instance, regarding .22 cal, I remember people saying that 800-900 FPS was the sweet spot for accuracy. Any thoughts on this and what the sweet spot would be for .22 or .25?

If you want full power get the Diana 54 in .22. It will be pcp accurate, but heavy and rough on scopes.

When you go to recoiling rifles, you have to find a power balance you can live with. A full power HW95 will be around 14 to 15 ft lbs in .22, not a bad place to be, but will not be a 100 yard shooter except as a stunt.

 

[BABz58]

Or get a Gamo Magnum and learn to shoot it. My .25 cal will easily shoot dime size groups at 50 yards. Plenty of punch. Just have to learn the best hold.
My hold is snug, not tight to the shoulder. With a loose grip on the fore stock. Consistent trigger pull.

 

[Vincent10]

A rifle equipped with a gas ram might be a good option for hunting. The gas ram will produce power and allow you to keep the rifle ready to fire for extended time without fatigue to the mainspring.

 

[Just Zack 2]

The Gamo website (Gamo USA) has a sale... Camo Rocket Grey .22 w/spring and decent open sights for under $100, plus whatever coupons of the month are... Could be a decent way to get your feet wet without breaking the bank.

 

[Struckat]

I have a HW95 with .177 and .22 barrels. I like both but have stuck with the .177 for a while now.

This spring I whacked a woodchuck at 19 yards with a 30+ fpe gun. At that range I would not hesitate to use my HW95. But it’s not the best tool for the job. Excellent for smaller critters.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

Having owned and tuned most guns listed above, the Hatsan isn't in the same league - but they look nice!

The Hatsan is in the $150 league. The HW in the $550 league.

Both pretty darn good for their respective leagues. Both priced accordingly.

I think it's safe to say you get exactly what you pay for with any rifle discussed so far. I like the Hatsan because it's inexpensive and expendable. I like the HW for the accuracy and quality. I think they both fill their own respective niche well. It all depends on what you expect from the rifle.

 

[Bedrock Bob]

My gamo sorely out shoots the hatsan 95 . The hatsan is ok I guess but ... My hatsan 25sc pistol does darn good .

Also what I feel for me what hurts hatsan bad now is they went all QE on stuff that use to have real barrels but funny outside the USA you can still get guns of there's with real solid barrels .. I guess we here don't deserve that anymore .. lol.. so haysan and there QE only USA policy fell well out of favor with me / NO SALE..

Do you think your Gamo shoots tighter than a Hatsan 95?

I've had some that shot well and some that didn't. I assumed the Gamos were similar. I honestly don't know. I've never owned a Gamo. They may truly be a better shooting rifle.

If you say they are I know it must be true. I've seen the patterns you've posted. I'm not sure I could best that with my Hatsan.

I've had a few hatsans and have a pretty good one. It's better than the average. You have a favorite Gamo you shoot very well. We both like to shoot iron sights...

If you can shoot a better pattern with a Gamo than I can with a Hatsan I'll buy one!

Let's start a new thread and have a shooting match. You set the range and number of shots. Do as many targets as you like. Post the best one. The guy that posts the largest pattern has to buy a new Hatsan...or Gamo!

It will be a friendly competition where the looser gets a new rifle that shoots better than his old one.

I think you will like your new Hatsan once you get it broken in!

 

[wgd]

I have HWs 30, 50, and 95 all 22s which I shoot 2 of 3 rotating nearly everyday. The 30 is fun but underpowered for your needs. The 95 has the power is the heaviest and it’s noticeable. For me it’s the least accurate which should make sense because the firing process is more violent. The 50 is sweet, lighter, should kill a chuck, quieter, and for me, emphasis on for me, more accurate. I picked up this 50 and put the W suppressor on it. More leverage and quieter. I think the stainless look is bitchin!

https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw50s-stainless-look-air-rifle/

Let me add, if you buy the 95 add $250 to your budget to get it tuned. That would certainly help accuracy. The 50 IMHO I would skip it. Another add, I picked up the 95N Field Pro. It has the 1/2 unf suppressor barrel which I added . My point is; the price can add up with a tune. Like $1100 all in on a tricked out 95.

 

[Hateful McNasty]

Do you think your Gamo shoots tighter than a Hatsan 95?

I've had some that shot well and some that didn't. I assumed the Gamos were similar. I honestly don't know. I've never owned a Gamo. They may truly be a better shooting rifle.

If you say they are I know it must be true. I've seen the patterns you've posted. I'm not sure I could best that with my Hatsan.

I've had a few hatsans and have a pretty good one. It's better than the average. You have a favorite Gamo you shoot very well. We both like to shoot iron sights...

If you can shoot a better pattern with a Gamo than I can with a Hatsan I'll buy one!

Let's start a new thread and have a shooting match. You set the range and number of shots. Do as many targets as you like. Post the best one. The guy that posts the largest pattern has to buy a new Hatsan...or Gamo!

It will be a friendly competition where the looser gets a new rifle that shoots better than his old one.

I think you will like your new Hatsan once you get it broken in!

Was just shooting 10m on irons , cphp 22 with the ol'whamo gamo.. 5 shots

I guess good enough for sub 200$
Walmart.?

Then I posted that 50y the other day..

 

[Struckat]

No Deco, no, that shootin is you not the Gamo.

My 15 year old Varmint still shoots…well, like it always has. I gave it to my son because I hated it. No, I don’t hate him, but I still feel bad that that is what he shoots. And it’s because of me.
It’s like I failed him twice.

wgd, don’t let him suck you in. He’s that fella that licks his thumb, wets the bead and never misses.

 

[Peepskp]

I found a guy selling a 54 pro on the classifieds here that I may consider if someone else doesn’t pick it up. Would you guys recommend sending it to someone to get tuned? I keep seeing a guy named Hector Medina that looks to be the 54 guru… also, I am not against a Gamo or a hatsan, I am just worried the jump from a Dreamline with GRS stock to one of those may be too underwhelming for me… just being honest!

 

[Just Zack 2]

I found a guy selling a 54 pro on the classifieds here that I may consider if someone else doesn’t pick it up. Would you guys recommend sending it to someone to get tuned? I keep seeing a guy named Hector Medina that looks to be the 54 guru… also, I am not against a Gamo or a hatsan, I am just worried the jump from a Dreamline with GRS stock to one of those may be too underwhelming for me… just being honest!

I own two Diana 54 Pro's, fantastic bench shooting spring piston guns in my opinion. I'm not big on hauling them in the field, they've got some weight. No real need to send them out for a tune, they hardly twang unless you're shooting pellets excessively heavy. Be aware of loose chambering pellets which could back out... Not a huge issue but it seemed Diana was a little generous when cutting leades in their barrels for a bit. 16gr JSB/AA pellets are my go to for the .22cal D54, but every gun/barrel has its own preference.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I have 2 of the guns you mention. I have a TX200 in .177 and a Diana54 in .22. The accuracy of the TX is excellent. 20 meters it shoots right with my D75s in the benchrest game. Diana54 is a .22 shoots almost as accurate as the TX in .177 but took more work to get it there. Advantage of the D54 in .22 is power. Shoots under 2 inches at 100 yds. At 50 yards it handles the wind much better thsn the TX in .177. I have killed 3 groundhogs this year with the D54, all 1 shot kills in the 25 yard area. Depends on what you want to do. Answer for you might be a TX in .22, not the HC model, the regular TX200. HC cocks harder.